There are two different horse Riders of Revelation.

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

Wow, you surprised me on this one LA.

In Revelation 5:9–10, the 24 elders are singing the song of the redeemed, and state that they (as a group) have been redeemed "out of every tribe, language, people, and nation" (v. 9). This cannot refer to Israel. Period. Israel is never referred to this way in the Bible—only the Gentile nations are. This description fits the Church perfectly.

Have you considered translations where the 24 elders aren't referring to themselves as having been redeemed?  From the NASB:

• And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.  “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”  Revelation 5:9-10

[Spock]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

WHO TOLD YOU the first half of the week was "peace?" Can you find scripture?

When God pushed me into Revelation I read and read and read, probably a hundred times: Daniel and Revelation.

Finally one day as I was reading Daniel 9, verse 27, when my eyes and my mind got to the word “midst” sudden God spoke to me in what seemed like an audible voice:

“You could find that exact midpoint ‘clearly marked’ in the book of Revelation.”

I was suddenly “in the Spirit,” and could not speak, but my spirit man immediately spoke and ask “How would I find that?”

He answered,

“Every time I mentioned an event that would begin at the midpoint and go to the end of the week, I always included the 3½ years of time. When you find the mentions of the 3½ years, you will be very close to the exact midpoint.”

Then, almost as an afterthought, he concluded:

“In fact, you could find the entire 70th week ‘clearly marked.”

When He said this, I suddenly understood that the reason I could find the entire 70th week would be that God would use the SAME MARKER to begin the week, to mark the midpoint and to end the week. That came as a download of information, not in words.

Now I am CONVINCED that God marked the 70th week with 7's. 

 

 

 

You might be right here too, LA. It is a real possibility from my perspective.

[iamlamad]

Just now, Spock said:

You might be right here too, LA. It is a real possibility from my perspective.

Please keep in mind, this was Jesus Christ, the head of the Church, the second person of the Godhead teaching me. I can assure you, I did not imagine it. God speaking cannot be imagined!

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Have you considered translations where the 24 elders aren't referring to themselves as having been redeemed?  From the NASB:

• And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.  “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”  Revelation 5:9-10

That is certainly a possibility. I had forgotten this Thanks for the reminder. We probably won't know until we get to heaven which is closest to the original. The Alexandrian and Hort and Westcott texts translate this way.  The Textus Receptus and Byzantine Majority has "us." 

[Revelation Man]

On 2/27/2019 at 9:50 PM, Spock said:

Hey RM,

i want to tell you, you really got my attention in my thread when you talked about this ENI.  And seeing the agreements are for 7 years is pretty cool.  It looks like 2021 is the next time there will be a 7 year agreement, so I’m thinking that you think this will be the agreement that begins the 70th week that Daniel 9:27.....am I right? 

Of course, some  say, “this has nothing to do with a false messiah.....he is not holding himself as such” So this interpretation is wanting. 

my response would be, “I didn’t know the peace treaty had to reveal the AC as the Anti Messiah!

Anyhow, I’m watching this closely and reading up on it as we speak. Thanks for the heads up. 

Spock

The agreements are just n place, the "framework" there is nothing stopping a renegotiation, like Trump is doing with Mexico and China. So  wouldn't worry about when it ends so much as when the Rapture {Christians all die at once} happens. Ot just points us to the reality of who the MANY is !! That is more important. The timing isn't that important IMHO. 

As per the false Messiah, I don't think the Anti-Christ tries to be a Jewish Messiah TYPE to the world. I think he does try to trick the Jews who fled to Judea that he is their Messiah, but for only one purpose, to trick them into coming out of their "SAFE ZONE" on Petra/Bozrah/Southern Jordan. If we read Matt. 24:24-28 we see this, they preform Miracles then try to trick the Jews to come unto them in the Desert or to the Secret Chambers, and Jesus warns them, DON'T GO, for I have already told you where I will be coming from, the Eastern Skies !! He basically says the ELECT can not be deceived because I have warned them. So the Jews who repented and fled Judea are looking for Jesus to come from the Skies. So this FALSE CHRIST and FALSE PROPHET only try to trick the Jews with that angle. They don't have to trick anyone else because no one else is "PROTECTED" !! You either serve the BEAST or DIE.

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I don't think so:

²¹ To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

We have verse after verse that tells us He went to be at the right hand of the Father. Why not just BELIEVE that?

Hi iamlamad,

Great we both agree that Jesus went to the Father`s right hand on His throne. I definitely believe that as I`ve said before. Now that throne/authority is beyond the created order. God is a spirit and thus not visible. (John 4: 23) However the Father desires that His Son in His glorified body be the visible ruler IN the created order. That is the Lord`s OWN THRONE/AUTHORITY given Him by the Father.

We will be able to see the Lord in His glorified body being invested with power and authority in the third heaven, amid the myriad of angelic beings. What a glorious ceremony that will be.

Marilyn.

 

 

[Spock]

11 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Have you considered translations where the 24 elders aren't referring to themselves as having been redeemed?  From the NASB:

• And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.  “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”  Revelation 5:9-10

Every single manuscript in the Majority Text containing Revelation 5:9–10 reads first person "us" in Revelation 5:9 except Codex Alexandrinus, which is widely believed to be the result of a simple copyist's error.

[Spock]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

That is certainly a possibility. I had forgotten this Thanks for the reminder. We probably won't know until we get to heaven which is closest to the original. The Alexandrian and Hort and Westcott texts translate this way.  The Textus Receptus and Byzantine Majority has "us." 

Every single manuscript in the Majority Text containing Revelation 5:9–10 reads first person "us" in Revelation 5:9 except Codex Alexandrinus, which is widely believed to be the result of a simple copyist's error.

[Spock]

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

He had to hang around and see Mary and then some other disciples. It may well be some of those He resurrected got there ahead of Him. Look: it is ONLY A GUESS, because John does not tell us. It also could be these are NOT resurrected saints: just there in Spirit.  It could be there were OTHERS besides Elijah and Enoch that God just took to heaven. That is a VERY remote possibility. the then is, WHY wonder when we just don't know? Obviously we don't NEED to know. 

This is why it does not matter to me WHO they are. We cannot put more emphasis on  them than God did!

This question I asked you is haunting me because I now am doubting how the 24 elders can be representatives of the CHURCH if I agree Yeshua has not even risen yet (around 30 AD).  The rapture apparently has not happened yet so at this point in time, I now am doubting what I believed a few days ago BECAUSE YOU CONVINCED ME YESHUA WAS STILL ON EARTH not glorified yet! 

Thinking out loud, I believe the rapture saints are shown in Rev 7:9-17 so what makes me think they are here on chapter 4?  I know this is a vision but if the vision in chapter 4 is in the PAST (30 AD or so) then I know the rapture has not happened yet. Duh!

so, back to the drawing board again.....which is why I have always hated discussing this topic....very frustrating indeed. Sigh! 

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, Spock said:

This question I asked you is haunting me because I now am doubting how the 24 elders can be representatives of the CHURCH if I agree Yeshua has not even risen yet (around 30 AD).  The rapture apparently has not happened yet so at this point in time, I now am doubting what I believed a few days ago BECAUSE YOU CONVINCED ME YESHUA WAS STILL ON EARTH not glorified yet! 

Thinking out loud, I believe the rapture saints are shown in Rev 7:9-17 so what makes me think they are here on chapter 4?  I know this is a vision but if the vision in chapter 4 is in the PAST (30 AD or so) then I know the rapture has not happened yet. Duh!

so, back to the drawing board again.....which is why I have always hated discussing this topic....very frustrating indeed. Sigh! 

Ha ha! You have painted yourself into a corner, so to speak!  If Jesus is not yet risen (and He certainly is not - they cannot be representatives of the church. I think we can pinpoint when He rose  - or very close to it - when He is found in a search to be worthy to take the book. But this is AFTER John saw the 24 elders. The question is, HOW LONG after? Perhaps He was risen from the dead just before those 24 elders arrived (perhaps a moment before john saw into the throne room) giving 24 of them time to arrive in heaven and take their seats, but Jesus not at that moment yet found worthy. (How long would it take for a search in heaven and on earth?)  It is a puzzle!

Added later: I guess you realize, most people never even consider such things!

Edited March 1, 2019 by iamlamad