Tearing Down Strongholds is not easy but they will come down....

[kwikphilly]

I agree Brother @DustyRoad(check out my new toy,lol)
I'm sometimes a bit confused by what Brother Gid says and I say so (to him) I have never not had a good discussion with Gids,we don't disagree on some things but we are respectful to one another and love one another.....I don't know why these things have to get so ugly ,it is quite disturbing

   WE don't all grow & learn at the same rate & some will simply believe what they believe until they believe differently or maybe never,,,,,but is it Salvational,I think not!Not every single conversation has to be an argument......I'm sorry this happens

                                                                             With love,your Sis Kwik

 

[Salvation67]

All I can say is that untill I learn more and my faith grows , I am sticking with Romans 10:13 Whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD SHALL BE SAVED and John 6:37 Those who come to me I shall NOWISE CAST OUT. I have called on the name of the LORD therefore I AM SAVED, I believe what He said in John 6:37, He has not caste me out. As far as not sinning anymore, all I can do is keep praying and seeking Him. I AM SAVED, thats what the word of GOD says.

[Behold]

11 minutes ago, DustyRoad said:

Well said, sister. Gids writes about something in a way which others find difficult to understand...

 

 

Do you actually think, that if i post that "you can lose your salvation", that anyone here would be confused by it?

Would You @DustyRoad?   Does that confuse you?

So, as long as "Gids" continues to post that dark material, which rejects the Blood Atonement,  noone will be confused by it, or regarding why he needs to do it, everyday he's here.

[kwikphilly]

14 minutes ago, DustyRoad said:

Yes, learning and growing! When I'm discouraged on account of my boneheadedness I'm encouraged in the Lord to bear in mind that I'm learning and growing, and this will never cease until "the end." 

Exactly Brother & I really do think that is Brother Gids point                    Love ya Bro!

[Behold]

1 hour ago, DustyRoad said:

Here's the issue as I perceive it, @Debp. There are many who discard scriptures in their race to maintain a disconnect between faith and "works"

 

"not by WORKS = lest any person will BOAST"..... Ephesians 2:9.

Is that clear enough?

God's Grace is a GIFT, "the gift of Righteousness".... "The GIFT of Salvation".... you dont earn it, @DustyRoad and you can't keep it, as you didn't die on a Bloody  CROSS to offer it as a GIFT.

Listen, Can you save yourself before Jesus saved you?  Then how can you keep yourself saved, later?

Think !

The discipleship that follows being born again, is not to keep yourself saved, as its only the Blood of Jesus which can do that FOR YOU... and that is why the Blood Atonement is all that God OFFERED to YOU so that you can be accepted by GOD.

If you are trying to work, and "Live it", and "walk the walk", and be HOLY, to try to keep being saved, then you have stopped Trusting IN CHRIST, and have now all your faith in your SELF.

This is "fallen from Grace"... Its the anti-Gospel.  Its Cross denying.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Behold

[AustinIfeanyi]

Yes, we were saved by grace, not by our own work, it's the free gift of God to man BUT Now that we are saved, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? GOD FORBID! Says the bible.. After Our spirit gets the new life, the next thing is the renewal of the soul (Mind, will) to come into conformity with the Holy Christ Jesus. That's the balanced doctrine. My little inpute. 

[dhchristian]

3 hours ago, Behold said:

4 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, 

 

Exactly.  When we all come to believe and teach that the same Blood of Jesus...The Same Christ on the Cross, who God accepted to SAVE US, and give us His Righteousness, saved us and keeps us saved.

When we "all" come to this unity of the understand of "justification by faith" that Paul teaches, "the GIFT of Righteousness" then until......... .

Exactly.

How come you ripped the one line out of the context of the passage.... You Know the part about the fulness of Christ and putting on the New Man here is what the verse actually says: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Look carefully at what you left off, and you will see how you are only teaching half of the Gospel of Grace. 

But ye have not so learned Christ;

If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Who Is the one twisting scripture Here? This passage is not speaking of Justification, But what comes after Justification. Namely sanctification to redemption. All of this is still by the Grace of God, at work in us, the Work of the Holy Ghost. All of it is nothing we can take credit for and are unable to do ourselves, But enabled by the Holy Ghost in us (God with us), and the Blood of the Lamb we overcome the World. Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. (Zech 4:6b)

You are missing Half of the Gospel of Grace And denying the Power of the resurrection to Overcome the flesh.... That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:4-8)

You will understand this when you have been renewed in the Spirit of the Mind. Right now, However, ignorance is bliss. 

[Behold]

23 hours ago, dhchristian said:

How come you ripped the one line out of the context of the passage....

You will understand this when you have been renewed in the Spirit of the Mind. Right now, However, ignorance is bliss. 

Ignorance is bliss?   Well, you should know.

Also, the unity of the faith, is this...."can any 2 walk together, unless they be agreed"..

So, you have to agree, regarding If Grace is God's salvation, and is a Gift, vs,  if you are to be a self saver .

You've chosen your side.

I'll stick with Paul's "Gospel" that omits self saving self righteousness.

Edited April 29, 2020 by George
Ad Hominem attacks never recovers someone you believe is in error ... removed such statements

[Alive]

@dhchristian  It may appear--and some assumptions are made--that some folks resisting the 'works' doctrine don't have a full understanding of moving along in growth and maturity 'In Christ'. The focus is not on the deeper walk with the Lord during these conversations--this warfare, because that is not the point being addressed.

So when someone on the forum is teaching that you can lose your salvation, whether overtly or with subtlety--it is that that is being resisted. When a maturing walk with the Lord is included by the individual also teaching salvation loss and/or works, it is confusing for young in the Lord folks, so a sharp sword is required to cut through the mess. This does not mean that such a one lacks understanding of the 'maturing' in the Lord.

When one teaches that one can lose their salvation--no matter how it is phrased or couched or wrapped in pleasant things--the result is always the same thing.

It means that they are teaching that 'works' saves or keeps saved. It is just that simple. And that is not the 'Truth'. So when that lie rears its head, some folks want to lop it off. It needs to be lopped off for the sake of those reading. To some folks, this appears single dimensional. To some folks this seems mean or even rude. It cuts--just as a the 'Sword' is meant to.

There is a time for teaching about sanctification as a continual daily process, but what MUST come first is a solid foundation of:

⁸ For ^zby grace you have been saved ^athrough faith. And this is ^bnot your own doing; ^cit is the gift of God, ^{9 d}not a result of works, ^eso that no one may boast.

And so on.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Alive

[dhchristian]

59 minutes ago, Alive said:

@dhchristian  It may appear--and some assumptions are made--that some folks resisting the 'works' doctrine don't have a full understanding of moving along in growth and maturity 'In Christ'. The focus is not on the deeper walk with the Lord during these conversations--this warfare, because that is not the point being addressed.

So when someone on the forum is teaching that you can lose your salvation, whether overtly or with subtlety--it is that that is being resisted. When a maturing walk with the Lord is included by the individual also teaching salvation loss and/or works, it is confusing for young in the Lord folks, so a sharp sword is required to cut through the mess. This does not mean that such a one lacks understanding of the 'maturing' in the Lord.

When one teaches that one can lose their salvation--no matter how it is phrased or couched or wrapped in pleasant things--the result is always the same thing.

It means that they are teaching that 'works' saves or keeps saved. It is just that simple. And that is not the 'Truth'. So when that lie rears its head, some folks want to lop it off. It needs to be lopped off for the sake of those reading. To some folks, this appears single dimensional. To some folks this seems mean or even rude. It cuts--just as a the 'Sword' is meant to.

There is a time for teaching about sanctification as a continual daily process, but what MUST come first is a solid foundation of:

⁸ For ^zby grace you have been saved ^athrough faith. And this is ^bnot your own doing; ^cit is the gift of God, ^{9 d}not a result of works, ^eso that no one may boast.

My conversation, and my ministry is not to the New born babes in Christ, But to the so called teachers who have reached a place of complacency here and elsewhere. My being sent involved in the query; "Can the teacher still be taught?" Or are they beyond learning. I am not addressing the immature, here in Christ, But the so called mature who are promoting complacency, rather than growth into maturity. Both can be taught to new Born Christians and yes they will likely fall into works as so many of us do, But do you believe the Lord will Keep them? This is a battle all believers face, Both young and old, and it will be accelerated in these end times. The More they hear the elders of the church discussing this, the more they will be armed with the Truth when it comes time to face the onslaught of the real enemy. 

I Am glad that you see the need for growth and maturity in Christ Jesus, I appreciate that. But we all have need of this message, old and young in Christ Jesus. You cannot just stop at justification by grace, but you must water that seed with Sanctification by grace and the Work of the Holy Spirit in us, and not by the will and strength of the individual which leads to works and vainglory and Hubris. This cannot begin to happen until they realize their need for Growth.

The Truth is that complacency loves company, and there are some here who would rather quench the Spirit than to see growth that those who are being set ablaze by the Move of the Holy Ghost in their lives will join them in their complacency. Gideon is expressing what is unknowable by Human wisdom, He is using human terms for lack of a Spiritual language to express them. Losing salvation is not what he is preaching Growing in faith is what he is preaching. The Question to you and all others who would be complacent where they are at is what happens to the Lukewarm of the church? Are they awakened by the move of the Holy Ghost, Or are they the ones that fall away from the Truth? For this is what is at stake here (read 2 thess. 2) We are the terminal generation  Some will go onto glory, while others will fall for the strong delusion, (Those who do,do not Love the Truth) What you do with these words of warning is between you and the LORD, All glory is his, as He grants the growth.

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 thess. 2;12)

Even What I write here sounds like you can lose salvation, But the truth is it is based on full belief in the Author and finisher of our faith, that he will accomplish what he set out to accomplish irregardless of our obstinance and refusal to acknowledge the message sent, and the attempts of those here to kill the messenger. In The coming dispensation, it is my strong belief that there will be only the saints as the church as we know it will be no more, the majority of which have fallen away into churchianity and not relationship, complacency and not vibrancy of the Spirit (The Law of the Spirit of Life). For they love not the truth. 

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. (2 Peter 1:8-9)