Eternal torment or eternal death

[Jostler]

life is not consciousness.  Death is not unconsciousness.  Life is a Person. 

Quote

Jhn 14:6

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Since the fall, all men have been born dead.  Dead to God, but we're born conscious beings....eventually the body dies too.  Those who have been born again are made alive in Him...who IS life.  Still conscious.  Those who do not receive Him, and life, will die physically.....locked into the second death ALL are born carrying, permanently.  Still conscious.

It is appointed unto man, once to die, then comes judgement.  All men will die once...the first death, physical death.  Some will die twice.  Still conscious.

[OneLight]

11 hours ago, Behold said:

The reason some believers think that God is tormenting, is because they are confusing a person's decision to end up where they are tormented because they Rejected Christ, with God causing this....

God does not cause anyone to go to hell.  But rather he honors our CHOICE to end up where faith in Christ or no faith in Christ will lead... in the end.

Hell, then the lake of Fire, are eternal destinations that God created for the Devil and his Angles.   So, its natural for those who, as Christ said...>"you are of YOUR FATHER The Devil" to end up with their Father, after they die.  They will continue to exist where their Father is found, and the born again will continue to Exit where our Father is found.

 God sent Christ to us all as  the FINAL OPTION to not end up with the wrong Father after we die....S o, if some do, don't blame God, as He can't do more then ofter Christ on a Cross to keep us all away from that other ending.

Going to hell is a person's CHOICE.   God honors your Choice.

Fully agree.  Man is responsible for their choices, and if their choice is to reject His salvation, they will suffer the consequences of their choice.   Matthew 12:30

He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

[missmuffet]

God does not send anyone to hell they send themselves to hell because of their unbelief. 

[Dennis1209]

To sum up some of the preceding: In a literal and factual sense, our Lord sends no one to eternal damnation; it's a personal choice of free will and rejection, they send themselves.

[Quietus]

On 5/25/2020 at 1:43 AM, missmuffet said:

God does not send anyone to hell they send themselves to hell because of their unbelief. 

What about those who think they believe, but only believe intellectually? So were they mislead? Were they somehow unable to translate that faith to their heart? Is the onus even upon them to do that, given that faith is only attributed to us by God, and not of ourselves? 

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Quietus said:

What about those who think they believe, but only believe intellectually? So were they mislead? Were they somehow unable to translate that faith to their heart? Is the onus even upon them to do that, given that faith is only attributed to us by God, and not of ourselves? 

That is only an excuse. They know if they have a real relationship with Christ. If you have trusted Christ as your Savior, then you have eternal life. The way you live your life is evidence for that. 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

Revelation 20:10 says that the devil will be tormented forever.

Revelation 14:9-11 Does describe "torment" for those in the lake.

Christ said that it would be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for the cities that reject the apostles.  Matthew 10:15

And Christ said that the fire has the power to kill the soul. Matthew 10:28

 

All the verses are true. It's a fire that causes "the second death". A devouring fire; Isaiah 33:14.

 

It is this current realm set on divine fire, 2 Peter 3:10-12. Some will be directly in the fire, some will be on mountains and rocks, [Matthew 10:15]  I speculate that being directly in the fire/lava eventually causes non-existence 'the second death', and that a person would have the choice to fight (painfully forever) against the fire or give into the fire. But I do not think there will be direct torment, such as whips and chains, just that the fire itself and being around it, is torment, also the knowledge of eternal separation from God.

[DeighAnn]

 

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
AS the lake of fire is a part of this age, they pass away also.  Satan turned to ashes from within.  And as smoke goes up and just disappears, so to all those who go into the lake of fire.  People seem to forget that we are all Gods children.  That Gods wish is that all would repent.  God isn't going to have them suffer forever because they didn't love him.  They are to be blotted out so it will be as if they never existed.  Not saying its going to be anything but bad until then though...but evil can not/will not exist with God.  
 

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
This here is a second witness.  There would be sorrow,  if  in fact,  it remained. 

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

[TheBlade]

I can not find where God takes from any fallen angel eternal life. They are eternal right now. And we never heard everything that was spoken. You really think the Father didn't tell them whats in-store for them if they do this? The cost? 

Now about the MARK. Rev already said just WHO will be worshiping the beast. Not one believer..those that have been written in the lambs book.  Everyone that takes that mark.. they know that they know that they know they are saying NO to GOD and yes to Satan. Thats why there is turning back. Once they just worship the beast.. its over. But those already written in the lambs book.. never worship the beast.

What God will do there.. does here. We make choices every day..when we KNOW so many times the cost of it. God had NOTHING what so ever to do with it. He always made away out. So when it comes to HELL and burning.. man best say nothing. We are surranded by sin darkness. We can not fully see. We are tainted , contaminate or pollute by sin. Again He never shared this with us. Would have no effect what so ever. As if we know fallen man lol know what true justice is. Best have Faith He knows what HE is doing

 

[Butch5]

On 5/24/2020 at 7:43 AM, Ervin P said:

I sometimes wonder if there is eternal torment or eternal death to come for anyone who is not saved. I hope it’s eternal death.

il post a few verses,  in favour of either:

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The above seems to be quite clear, but it’s obvious that not everything in the Bible is always literal.

Then

Revelation 21:8

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

And also:

Romans 6:7 For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.

Anyway, I am interested in your thoughts on the question of what is for those that won’t be saved.

 Thanks 

 

 

It is eternal death. However, the word translated forever doesn't mean forever.