7 year tribulation

[Charlie744]

I have been studying Daniel and have found that there are so many folks that refer to a “7 year tribulation” which will occur at the end of time and will center on an “anti-Christ” figure. 

I believe these two beliefs are based on certain verses in Daniel. 

Consequently, would you folks provide your thoughts on the verses and your interpretation of how they speak / identify them as such?

 Thank you very much, Charlie 

[Diaste]

As a normal reading there is a 70th week, not a 7 year tribulation; that's a misnomer. The NT never says there is a 'tribulation period' associated with the end of the age. Jesus says there is great tribulation only after the A of D, which is at the midpoint, or the middle of the 70th week. That same great tribulation is said to be shortened so it's not even 3.5 years in duration.

The 70th week contains a period of great trouble where the antichrist operates for a time before proclaiming himself god in the Temple. 

It's based on Daniel, three Gospels, Thessalonians, and Revelation. And a few more OT books. 

[R. Hartono]

54 minutes ago, Diaste said:

As a normal reading there is a 70th week, not a 7 year tribulation; that's a misnomer. The NT never says there is a 'tribulation period' associated with the end of the age. Jesus says there is great tribulation only after the A of D, which is at the midpoint, or the middle of the 70th week. That same great tribulation is said to be shortened so it's not even 3.5 years in duration.

The 70th week contains a period of great trouble where the antichrist operates for a time before proclaiming himself god in the Temple. 

It's based on Daniel, three Gospels, Thessalonians, and Revelation. And a few more OT books. 

The 2 witnesses Will testify in the first 3,5 years then be killed.

Then the AoD will happen n the woman of Revelation 12 will escape to wilderness n be Fed for 3,5 years.

Thus the total length is 7 years after being cut short.

The 2nd half is called the GT because those who refuse to worship the beast n rcv the mark shall b executed.

However the first 3,5 years will b the horror never before in history as Seals are opened.

Edited August 12, 2020 by R. Hartono

[Charlie744]

Thank you very much for your comments! If you do not mind, I just responded to SONshine (perhaps 5 minutes ago) within the post “Daughter of women”. Rather than rewrite much of it I would kindly ask you to read my response... 

I believe the “gap theory”, if you will, represents the placing of Daniel’ 70th week out into the future based on a new interpretation commissioned by the RCC (little horn) in the 1500’s as a counter to the Reformation. Prior to this “interpretation”, the papacy was believed to be the “little horn”. 

Essentially, and despite ALL of chapter 9 speaking of God and the coming Messiah, they were extremely successful in changing the interpretation of 9:27. Personally, I can not imagine how anyone could not identify the Messiah as “he” and how it immediately speaks of His being cut off on the midst of the week - look at 9:26... how can anyone not see the Messiah is the One in all of chapter 9?

But this is exactly what the little horn does... we have been told in advance in Daniel- he will indeed corrupt His Word and this is then “Spiritual” battle of chapter 11 that it speaks about. 

Thanks again for your thoughts and best wishes, Charlie 

[Charlie744]

Well, I think we are quite far apart but I certainly expect and accept that... the accepted interpretations of Daniel have been promoted by the RCC for a few hundred years and have been very successful. And of course, that means they have had a profound affect in interpreting many verses in Revelation. 

If Daniel has been severely corrupted / misinterpretated as I believe may have, then so is Revelation- it would be so it would not conflict with Daniel.

I have had this conversation before... the folks would use the currently accepted interpretations of Revelation and point out how they conflict with my interpretations- so my interpretations of Daniel must be incorrect.

My comment has always been that my interpretations could not possibly marry with the current interpretations of Revelation- apples and oranges. However, my final comment to them is that Daniel MUST be FIRST correctly interpreted and then one can move on to Revelation.

If you are convinced of Daniel’s interpretations (not mine but a future 7 year tribulation and that 9:27 does NOT speak of the Messiah, then YOUR Revelation just might stand! But for me, and independent of my interpretations of Daniel, I have not read ONE complete or clear or satisfactory interpretation of Revelation—- No one has an understanding yet... NONE! 

Charlie.

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you very much for your comments! If you do not mind, I just responded to SONshine (perhaps 5 minutes ago) within the post “Daughter of women”. Rather than rewrite much of it I would kindly ask you to read my response... 

I believe the “gap theory”, if you will, represents the placing of Daniel’ 70th week out into the future based on a new interpretation commissioned by the RCC (little horn) in the 1500’s as a counter to the Reformation. Prior to this “interpretation”, the papacy was believed to be the “little horn”. 

Essentially, and despite ALL of chapter 9 speaking of God and the coming Messiah, they were extremely successful in changing the interpretation of 9:27. Personally, I can not imagine how anyone could not identify the Messiah as “he” and how it immediately speaks of His being cut off on the midst of the week - look at 9:26... how can anyone not see the Messiah is the One in all of chapter 9?

But this is exactly what the little horn does... we have been told in advance in Daniel- he will indeed corrupt His Word and this is then “Spiritual” battle of chapter 11 that it speaks about. 

Thanks again for your thoughts and best wishes, Charlie 

"Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: "

If "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:" is speaking to Messiah is there evidence for this? God's covenant with His people is forever, not a week.

There is a big change from Messiah the Prince or Messiah to 'prince'. The 'he' in 9:27 is speaking to the 'prince' of 9:26 not Messiah.

If 9:27 was supposed to be Messiah why didn't Daniel use 'mashiyach' instead of 'nagiyd'?  

[Charlie744]

He is confirming His new covenant in the last week of Daniel’s 70 weeks. Of course His covenant will never end.... This is the covenant mentioned by Jeremiah... there is no other covenant prophecized between the Messiah and the Jewish people.

The entire chapter is covered with Messianic language... The prince of pagan Rome can not enter into a covenant relationship with the Jews... only God!

Also, when I was working on 9 - about 10 months ago, I remember asking myself why didn’t God simply and obviously quite easily have NOT recorded “he” and written in Messiah... because many will / might interpret “he” as someone other than the Messiah (prince of 9:26 who will destroy...), and my conclusion was and still is:

As mentioned above, chapter 9 is ALL about the Messiah and the “covenant” and can only refer to the One who has the ability to make a “covenant” ... BUT God specifically used “he” because the Jews would not RECOGNIZE Him as their Messiah! 

“he” was indeed hidden from them! 

The people of the prince (ruler - pagan Rome) would indeed come in 70 AD to destroy... 

Thank you very much for your consideration.

Best wishes, Charlie 

 

 

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you very much for your comments! If you do not mind, I just responded to SONshine (perhaps 5 minutes ago) within the post “Daughter of women”. Rather than rewrite much of it I would kindly ask you to read my response... 

I believe the “gap theory”, if you will, represents the placing of Daniel’ 70th week out into the future based on a new interpretation commissioned by the RCC (little horn) in the 1500’s as a counter to the Reformation. Prior to this “interpretation”, the papacy was believed to be the “little horn”. 

One of THEM RCC guys hey? The Little Horn is a MAN.....not the RCC, if you simply read Dan. 7:11 it tells you that.

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake(MEN SPEAK): I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Little Horn is a MAN, not the RCC. 

There is no Gap Theory, there are THREE Prophesies set out by Gabriel, who explained to Daniel why they 70 years Prophecy of Jeremiah was now 70 x 7. Then he gave Daniel the NEW Prophetic terms/conditions, it was in THREE DIFFERENT PROPHESIES, if it was meant for a continuous prophetic utterance it would have not been given in three prophesies.......7 x 7.......62 x 7.......1 x 7. Its on you and those who can't see the prophecy, not on God who gave it in three different prophetic utterings.

12 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Essentially, and despite ALL of chapter 9 speaking of God and the coming Messiah, they were extremely successful in changing the interpretation of 9:27. Personally, I can not imagine how anyone could not identify the Messiah as “he” and how it immediately speaks of His being cut off on the midst of the week - look at 9:26... how can anyone not see the Messiah is the One in all of chapter 9?

 

The he is the Anti-Christ, the prince to come in 2000 years. Jesus is not cut off in the middle of the week, he is killed after the 69th week, you have to add in the other 1/2 week to get that understanding on your own brother. You say it like this, "AFTER  well, that means after 69 which means 69 1/2"..............NO............It means what it says, after 69 weeks. You are adding that in sir, and that's a BIG NO-NO.

It is Israel who the Prophecy is about, they need to ATONE, the Prophecy is not about Jesus, hes just a MARKER, just like the WALL is a MARKER and the coming Anti-Christ/prince to come is a MARKER. Thus you have three Markers in the Prophesy to identify three Prophetic utterings and there timings. 

9 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

My comment has always been that my interpretations could not possibly marry with the current interpretations of Revelation- apples and oranges. However, my final comment to them is that Daniel MUST be FIRST correctly interpreted and then one can move on to Revelation.

 

We understand it brother, I have a blog that it explains it in detail. 

9 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

If you are convinced of Daniel’s interpretations (not mine but a future 7 year tribulation and that 9:27 does NOT speak of the Messiah, then YOUR Revelation just might stand! But for me, and independent of my interpretations of Daniel, I have not read ONE complete or clear or satisfactory interpretation of Revelation—- No one has an understanding yet... NONE! 

Charlie.

Jesus told us we would have CONTINUAL TRIBULATION in this world, so the 2000 some odd year Church Age is Tribulation, the 7 years of the 70th week is thus also tribulation, AND the last 3.5 years is the GREATEST EVER TROUBLES. They do not have to be mutually exclusive to each other.  As per the book of Revelation, that can be explained also.

The Chronological Order of the book of Revelation and its meaning.

Revelation chapter 1, this is John seeing Jesus in all His mesmerizing Glory (The things which you have SEEN) Revelation chapters 2 & 3 is John being shown the Church Age (the things which ARE) Revelation chapters 4-19 is John being shown the 70th week period (the things which will be HEREAFTER) Revelation chapters 20-22 is the Judgment/1000 year reign/Hereafter/New Jerusalem.

We can skip chapters 1-3 below as I am only going to show the order of the Book of Revelation as it applies to the coming 70th week. I will go chapter by chapter. We know Revelation 2 and 3 equals the Church Age.

Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church in Heaven AFTER the Rapture but before the Seals are opened, we will seemingly watch Jesus open the Seals in Heaven. In Rev. 4:4 we have CROWNS, ROBES and sit on THRONES the very things promised unto those who OVERCOME the world in Revelation chapters 2 and 3.

Rev. chapter 6, here we see the Seals opened by Jesus, the book has 7 Seals, as each Seal is opened by Jesus its still from the chapter 5 perspective, John says, and when I saw the Lamb (its a vision, he sees a Lamb opening the Seals) open the Seal one of the Four Beasts said "Come and see" AND I SAW, AND BEHOLD, a White Horse..........going forth to Conquer. Then he gives the Red Horse, Black, Horse, Pale Green Horse, Jesus shows him the coming Martyrs under the Altar via the 5th Seal, and the coming Wrath of God via the 6th Seal......BUT NOTHING STARTS until the Book of Judgment is opened. We are still in the first half of the 70th week, IN HEAVEN, and John is being shown VISIONS of what is about to take place at the opening of the 7th Seal, which starts the Middle of the week and is the 1260 spoken of  by Daniel in Dan.  chapter 12.

Revelation chapter 7, we all know the Jews Flee Judea at the time/sign of the AoD, yet no one is willing to admit they can't flee until they understand the word of God and have read the directions Jesus gives unto them in Matt. 24. So the Seals are being opened in Heaven and God's Wrath is about to befall this evil world and then in verses 1-3 we see the Angels are saying to hold up the WINDS (Troubles/God's actions) and HURT NOT the Earth, Sea and Trees until the servants of God have been SEALED IN THE HEAD (Protected from the coming TROUBLES being spoken of in this PASSAGE). Then God lists who these are without calling them Israel, and He does so in a way to show Metaphorically they are ALL Israel (12 x 12 x 1000 or simply 12 x 12,000 = FULLNESS, the number 10 always stands for COMPLETENESS and 12 stands for Fullness). Then God flashes the vision from earth to Heaven where WE THE CHURCH are at, the same Elders (Church/Bride) you saw in Rev. chapters 4 and 5. We are said to have come out of a Great Tribulation period, and we did, it doesn't matter that humans confuse the meaning, none of the Martyrs have even died yet, they are clearly JUDGED in Rev. 20:4, as the ones who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast and live and reign with Christ for 1000 years on earth. So God shows us Israel Fleeing Judea just BEFORE the 1260 Event, via the 1290 AoD by the False Prophet. Those who come of of the Great Tribulation came out of the 2000 some odd year Church Age Tribulation period as in 2000>7.

THE 1260 EVENT.........The Real Chronological Order of the Book of Revelation.

Revelation chapter 8, The 7th Seal of God is opened, there is SILENCE IN HEAVEN because this is God's Wrath falling on Mankind. We see in this verse things that the Angel HELD UP, the fire that burns the Trees, the Sea and Earth is PELTED by the Judgments of God, just after the Jews make it to SAFE HARBOR in the Petra/Bozrah area of Jordan. Then we see the Angel announces the coming Three Woes will come with the SOUNDING of the final three Trumpets in verse 13. We are in God's 1260 day WRATH PERIOD. (The Anti-Christ is going forth as a Conqueror at this SAME TIME, but that is SHOWN in other UPCOMING CHAPTERS. He understand how to take advantage of Chaos. The asteroid strike see in Rev. 8 via the first four Trumps create this Chaos. It takes out the USA and Pacific Ocean area via the coming asteroid strike, see Apophis the space rock, heading our way, on April 13, 2029 it will come withing 20 k miles of the earth, that is 10 TIMES closer than the moon !!

Revelation chapter 9, with the Seals not being a part of the Judgments as I once believed, now this chapter 9 release of Apollyon the Scarlet Colored Beast aligns much more closely with the 1260, after only 4 Trump Judgments he is RELEASED to Beast over Israel again. He and his Demon Spirits go forth tormenting souls at the 1st Woe. In the 2nd Woe, we see an Angelic Army of 200 million who SLAY a 1/3 of all the Wicked on earth who have taken the Mark of the Beast.

Revelation 15&16 comes next as per the CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER of the Book of Revelation. Rev. 15 is the Angels reading the Vials.

Revelation 16 is the 7 Vials, which is the 3rd Woe, which was brought to pass by the 7th Trump which ENDS IT ALL....IT IS DONE. Jesus lands on Mt. Zion and DEFEATS the Wickedness of Mankind via his SPEECH, Amen. He defeats them as Daniel says WITHOUT HANDS, so Daniel understood. Paul stated he defeats them by the Glory of his coming. This ends the ACTUAL TIMELINE of the book of Revelation.

The PARENTHETICAL CITATION CHAPTERS......10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and most of 19. These are SET-A-SIDE Chapters !! The happen during the Judgement chapters of Rev. 8, 9 15&16.

Rev 10 is a Flash Forward to the very end, Jesus promises when the 7th Trump is Sounded TIME will be NO MORE {as we knew it}

Revelation 11 starts 75 Days before the 7th Seal is opened, which brings us the Wrath of God, which starts with the first trump. So these Two-witnesses show up BEFORE the DOTL just like Malachi 4:5-6 says !! This is why Israel (1/3 who repent.. see Zechariah 13:8-9) are in the KNOW when they see the AoD sign, this is why they Flee Judea unto the SPECIFIED area of Jordan, they are Messianic Jews and the Two-witnesses, Elijah and I think Moses, gives them INSTRUCTION on what to do, when Moses and Elijah talks, PEOPLE LISTEN !! So, if we LOOK REAL HARD we can see what the whole chapter is about, it's ALL ABOUT the Two-witnesses 1260 day Ministry which STARTS 75 days BEFORE the Beast goes forth at the 1260 event, the Two-witnesses are the 1335 Event (The BLESSING). In the first few verses we can see what their assignment is, they are called to preach unto the Jews as per what MEASUREMENTS we are shown, the TEMPLE and those that Worship therein. But the Court which is WITHOUT (Gentile Court) LEAVE OUT !! They are called, like Jesus, to go to the Jews only.

John is shown their parameters, go to the Jews ONLY, not the Gentiles !! Malachi 4:5-6 CONFIRMS this. We see the 2nd Woe spoken of here because this 1260 day Period OVERLAPS the 2nd Woe, this is a Parenthetical Chapter about the TWO-WITNESSES !! It starts 75 days before the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem to BECOME the Beast. The ONLY REASON we are given the 2nd Woe and 3rd Woe (7th Trump) here is so we can JUXTAPOSE the Beast's 1260 day TIMELINE vs the Two-witnesses 1260 day TIMELINE !! That is it, it's not relevant here otherwise. So now we know the Two-witnesses DIE at the 2nd Woe, and the Beast DIES at the 7th Vial which ENDS the 3rd Woe which started via the 7th Trump. Therefore we KNOW the 1260 days can not be PARALLEL with each other !! Thus the Two-witnesses DIE FIRST so they have to SHOW UP FIRST, just like Malachi 4:5-6 says !! The 7th Trump does END IT ALL, because the 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe WHICH CONSISTS of the 7 Vials, and we know in Rev. 16, the Angel says IT IS DONE !! This whole chapter is about the Two-witnesses 1260 day Ministry, not about the Chronological Order of the Book of Revelation, which is pretty much Parallel with this whole chapter as per the timing. The Two-witnesses PRAY DOWN every Plague, and that is why we are SHOWN the 7th Trumps FINAL OUTCOME which the Two-witnesses PRAYED DOWN !! But just like the 2nd Woe, we see the DETAILS ELSEWHERE !! (Rev. 16).

THE BEASTS which go Forth at the 1260 Events and Israel Fleeing Judea are shown in the next two chapters.

Revelation chapter 12, this is the Jews Fleeing Judea of course [see Rev. 7], We know this starts at the 1260 because the Dragon CHASES the Woman for 1260 days. In Seal number 6, maybe the only ACTION is Satan being cast out of Heaven at the 6th Seal JUST BEFORE the 7th Seal is opened. Satan thus is CAST DOWN to earth for the final 1260 days/3.5 years in which he is the Dark Lord over Babylon. He chases the Woman {Israel} via the Anti-Christ at the 1260, not, LATER ON, thus this event is the SAME EVENT we see in Rev. 7, where the 144,000 {Fleeing Jews} which is a 1/3 of 6 Million which means 2 million Jews unless more Jews move to Israel by that time, then it would mean a 1/3 of all the Jews living in Israel, whatever that number is. So Israel Flees Judea to Petra, where God {Eagle} protects them. The Anti-Christ is the FLOOD Satan uses to come after Israel at this time when God protects the 1/3/Jews/Israel people who REPENTED via the supernatural protection of God. Thus Satan/Anti-Christ in reality, TURNS and goes after the REMNANT CHURCH on Earth, and they are the Martyrs which we were FORETOLD of in Rev. 6.

Revelation chapter 13, this is the Anti-Christ going Forth on a WHITE HORSE as a Conqueror, I used to think this was happening in Rev. ch. 6, now I understand Rev. 6 is happening in Heaven, but it's not a part of the 1260 days or 3.5 years of God's Wrath. That starts in Revelation ch. 8, so the White Horse GOES FORTH also in Rev. 8, when the 7th Seal is opened, and at the same time as the 7 Trumps start sounding. The Beast ARISES out of the Mediterranean Sea at the 1260 Event, in the middle of the week, 75 days after the Two-witnesses SHOW UP at the 1335 event. His running partner the False Prophet places the 1290 AoD in the TEMPLE of God after he has STOPPED the Worshiping of Jesus in the Temple {TAKEN AWAY THE REAL SACRIFICE}. So Revelation ch. 13 is also a Parenthetical Chapter. Its ALL ABOUT the coming Anti-Christ.

THE THREE HARVESTS

Revelation 14 is ALL ABOUT THE HARVESTS of mankind, its a SET-A-SIDE, Parenthetical Chapter pertaining to the Harvests of men, nothing more, nothing less. We see Jesus showing up on Mt. Zion, which happens at Rev. 16:19. So it's not a REAL-TIME EVENT per se. This chapter in fact covers the FULL 7 Years. We see Jesus Harvesting the Wheat {Israel} in verse 1 and Harvesting the Wicked Tares who grow together WITH THE WHEAT TILL THE END, in verse 17-20. But alas, what about the Church? Well, we also see THAT Harvest by Jesus himself in verses 14-16, that actually happened Pre 70th Week however !! Thus this chapter covers the full 7 years and ALL THREE Harvests. The Church/Bride of Christ AND the Wheat & Tares.

REVELATION 17 & 18, THE FALSE RELIGION AND FALSE GOVERNANCE CHAPTERS

Revelation 17 is the Harlot False Religion chapter, the Anti-Christ will WIPE THEM ALL OUT, as soon as he comes to power at the 1260 Event, so Rev. 17 starts in Revelation chapter 8. God is going to Judge these False Religions He hates. From Babylon to Beast Worship and ALL POINTS in between. She is a Harlot who has made the Kings and the Whole World DRUNKEN with her False gods, from Jupiter to Islam, to Judaism after Jesus; death, to Witchcraft, to all the false gods in Egypt, Babylon and Greece etc. etc. God JUDGES HER here via the Anti-Christ AND his 10 Kings. He wipes out ALL FALSE RELIGIONS save Beast Worship which God/Jesus will destroy at the Second Coming. She has Babylon tattooed on her head. She is associated with FALSE RELIGION as is Babylon.

Revelation 18 starts at the 1260 Event ALSO, but unlike the Rev. 17 Harlot, this is the Government Beast {Babylon} and it will only be WIPED OUT in full when Jesus returns. Meanwhile, we see GLIMPSES of the 3.5 years or 1260 day Wrath of God PELTING Babylon {Whole World} with God's Trumpet and Vial Judgments. We see as I stated, glimpses of the 3.5 years, we see Satan has been cast out of Heaven in verse 2, AND Apollyon has been released where it says Babylon (World) has BECOME a habitation of DEVILS !! And then in verse 4, we see God telling Israel to COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, lest you partake in Her (Babylon or the WHOLE WORLD) Sins and thus receive of her (Babylons/World) PLAGUES. God gives us a Metaphoric Event here, to show us how the Merchants of the Worlds Economies will be WIPED OUT via His Judgments.

The Anti-Christ slays 1.5-2 billion people, the 200 Million Angelic Army slays 1.5 Million of those who have taken the Mark of the Beast, so minus the Billion or so Raptured Christians that's like more than half the Worlds population, the Merchants INCOME is wiped out by a lack of people buying, ON TOP OF ALL THAT, all the Grasses of the whole world burn, a 1/3 of the Trees burn, 1/3 of the Seas are distressed via the killing of Sea Creatures {Fish/Shrimp} 1/3 of the ships being destroyed and a 1/3 of the seas turning to blood. On top of that 1/3 of the fresh waters are poisoned and the moon and sun fails to give its LIGHT by 1/3 (THIS........Is the 6th Seal diminishing of LIGHTS AS FORETOLD). So all these things BEFALL Babylon (World Governments under Satan's Dark Rule) and she is said to be JUDGED in verse 8 in ONE DAY and in verse 10 in ONE HOUR, both Metaphors for Day of the Lord (3.5 year period of Gods Wrath as per the ONE DAY) and the ONE HOUR mention refers to exactly how long the Kings in Rev. 17:12 are said to RULE with the Beast, so that ONE HOUR is another reference to 3.5 years or 1260 days !! It all fits like a glove. This chapter covers EXACTLY 3.5 years.

Revelation chapter 19, this chapter covers pretty much the FULL 7 Years just like chapter 14, we see the Bride in Rev. 19 BEFORE she Marries the Lamb, so that is BEFORE Rev. chapters 4 and 5 because they {WE} already have our White Robes in those chapters. So this chapter starts before that, and covers the Rapture of the Church, to go be with the Lamb, in order to Marry the Lamb, THEN we come back with Jesus on White Horses {another Metaphor meaning as Conquerors} where we then see the Beast and all his minions defeated by Jesus who SPEAKS VICTORY !! Amen.

Jesus then (this comes AFTER THE 7 Years) casts the Beast and False Prophet IN HELL straight away, but no doubt after Judgment. The Rev. 20:4 Judgment thus covers the Martyrs and those TWO TYRANTS, all others are BOUND UP (placed in the grave) until the 1000 years is over and JUDGED at that time.

Thus Rev. 20 comes AFTER all the other chapters, but really RIGHT AFTER Rev. 16:19........IT IS DONE !! And thus it is the Judgment Seat Chapter, the Saints who live on earth with Christ Jesus for 1000 years are Judged here, those that REFUSED the Mark of the Beast and laid down their lives instead.

Rev. 21 and 22 is the Hereafter and New Jerusalem Chapters.

That my brother is the book of Revelation's Chronological Order and what it means, in a limited edition, I can go into detail on every chapter if needed. 

[Charlie744]

RM, thank you for your response but it seems we are miles apart .... and that is okay! 

Regarding the RCC ... yes, I understand it is a man but I used RCC just to identify (short hand) the pope / papacy as the little horn. I don’t know what you intended to mean when you said “One of those RCC guys, hey” (???), But no matter, 

Regarding the 3 sections of the 70 week prophecy- The Messiah was baptized by John which began His ministry and the start of the last week (7 years) of  the total 490 years. He was indeed cut off in the midst of this final week as predicted in Daniel... The 3 identified periods run continuously— no Gap ! There are 6 requirements that the Messiah WILL fulfill or complete during the last week of Daniel... and He certainly did fulfill them and all the things that had to be completed within each of the 3 separate sections of the 70 week period was met. 

In order for one to correctly interpret Revelation- which I have not begun, it would be my belief that it is necessary to have a correct interpretation of Daniel... consequently, my current objective is to complete Daniel 11 & 12 and then move on to Revelation.

 I therefore did not go through or over your extensive work on Revelation..... 

The “he” in 9:27 is indeed a reference to the Messiah- the only One who could create a “new covenant” with the Jews- as predicted In Jeremiah. The entire chapter 9 is written about the Messiah and the covenant with a mention of a “people of a prince” (pagan Rome) will indeed come in 70 AD to destroy the city... 

Best wishes, Charlie 

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

He is confirming His new covenant in the last week of Daniel’s 70 weeks. Of course His covenant will never end.... This is the covenant mentioned by Jeremiah... there is no other covenant prophecized between the Messiah and the Jewish people.

The entire chapter is covered with Messianic language... The prince of pagan Rome can not enter into a covenant relationship with the Jews... only God!

Also, when I was working on 9 - about 10 months ago, I remember asking myself why didn’t God simply and obviously quite easily have NOT recorded “he” and written in Messiah... because many will / might interpret “he” as someone other than the Messiah (prince of 9:26 who will destroy...), and my conclusion was and still is:

As mentioned above, chapter 9 is ALL about the Messiah and the “covenant” and can only refer to the One who has the ability to make a “covenant” ... BUT God specifically used “he” because the Jews would not RECOGNIZE Him as their Messiah! 

“he” was indeed hidden from them! 

The people of the prince (ruler - pagan Rome) would indeed come in 70 AD to destroy... 

Thank you very much for your consideration.

Best wishes, Charlie 

 

 

So all covenants must be between the Messiah and the Jews and can never be between an earthly king and the Jews?