Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[WilliamL]

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

There is a rapture. It's called the gathering in scripture, or the 1st resurrection. The word 'rapture' appears no where in scripture. I think it's even worse than a misnomer.

Rapture is a derivative of the Latin verb rapere:

Infinitive present

rapere

 

Infinitive future

raptūrum esse

 

This is the verb used in the Old Latin translation of the Bible to translate the Greek verb 'arpadzo used in 1 Thes. 4:17.

 

 

[RdJ]

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Edited February 14, 2024 by Renskedejonge
never mind

[Progressive Truth]

The Church at Philadelphia

“Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.” ( Revelation 3:10, italics mine.) This text is often used by pre-trib rapture believers to defend their escape from the Great Tribulation. So, let us carefully examine this text and its context.

To be fair, if the Bible had one verse in it, and this was its only verse, I could be persuaded that the Bible supported the idea that the saints will escape t he hour of trial that is coming upon the whole world. However, when compared with everything the Bible has to say about the end-time, this verse does not actually say what it is purported to say.

This verse was directed to the church at Philadelphia. So, we need to ask, will the church at Philadelphia be the only church to escape the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world?  I do not believe this to be true.

Review Revelation 3:10 and observe these two points: First, Jesus says an hour of trial is going to come upon the whole world to test the living. For reasons beyond the scope of this study, I agree with pre-trib rapture believers that the Great Tribulation is imminently before us!

I believe this verse points to a final tribulation that has no equal in world history.         (Matthew 24:21; Daniel 12:1,2)

When a person first reads this text it may appear that the church of Philadelphia ( Revelation 3:7) will be kept from experiencing the hour of trial, that is, they will escape this testing time. Unfortunately, many Christians have come to regard this verse as proof that Christians will escape the suffering that will overcome the world during the Tribulation.

Actually, this verse does not teach that Christians will be taken to Heaven before the Tribulation begins, but instead indicates that believers will be sustained beginning from (Greek word ‘ek) the hour of trial until Jesus appears.

One of the world’s best lexicons on early Christian use of the Greek language is A Greek Lexicon of the New Testament (Bauer, Arndt and Gingrich, 1952, Fourth Ed.).

The word in question is the Greek preposition ‘ek and it is translated “from” both in the NIV and KJV. Therefore, the phrase reads, “. . . I will keep you from the hour of trial . . .” However, this tiny preposition is also translated in a variety of other ways in both versions of the Bible and has more than a dozen different English equivalents in meaning.

For example, ‘ek can mean “from, out of, away from, coming out of, descending from, by, because of, beginning from, begins from, for,” etc. On page 235 of this lexicon, the authors indicate that when the preposition is followed by a measurement of time – as in “the hour of trial,” ‘ek can convey the meaning “beginning from.”

In other words, a person is justified in reading this verse as follows: “I [Jesus] will also keep you beginning from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world. . . .”

When one word, especially a preposition, determines the meaning of a pivotal verse, we must be very careful in our research. We can and should turn to additional lexicons and other word study helps for insight. Although this effort may be valuable, it is not the highest authority regarding the intended meaning of the verse.

Higher and more weighty evidence must come from the Bible itself. So, here are three points for your consideration about why this verse should be understood as “beginning from the hour of trial”:

a.   Jesus told His disciples, “ . . . And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age [world (KJV)].” (Matthew 28:20) This verse should be taken at face value. Jesus plainly said He will be with His children to the very last day when He physically and gloriously appears in the clouds. This idea concurs with Revelation 3:10: “I [Jesus] will also keep you beginning from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world. . . .”

b.    Several verses in Revelation indicate that the saints are on Earth during the Great Tribulation. The word “saints” is mentioned twelve times in Revelation (NIV) and thirteen times in the KJV. Except for the 144,000 servants who are taken to Heaven after the seven trumpets end and the 24 elders who were taken to Heaven at the time of Christ’s ascension, Revelation does not place the living saints in Heaven before the Second Coming. In fact, Revelation places the saints on Earth! Notice what happens to the saints in these verses: “Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest [the remnant, (KJV)] of her offspring – those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus . . . He [the beast] was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation . . . If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints . . . .” ( Revelation 12:17; 13:7; 13:10, italics mine.)

I do not find support in Scripture for the idea that some saints are enjoying the bliss of Heaven while others are living through a hellish tribulation on Earth. Instead, the purpose of the Great Tribulation is to test those people who live on Earth and to expose who the saints really are!

Revelation 14:12 confirms the saints will suffer because they obey God. John says, “This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who [suffer because they] obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.” The point is that Revelation clearly puts the saints on Earth during the Great Tribulation. Therefore, Revelation 3:10 should read, “I [Jesus] will also keep you beginning from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world. . . .”

[dad2]

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This verse was directed to the church at Philadelphia. So, we need to ask, will the church at Philadelphia be the only church to escape the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world? 

If one of those churches was a group that happened to live around the time when the last seven years was about to start, it could also make sense.

 

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Actually, this verse does not teach that Christians will be taken to Heaven before the Tribulation begins, but instead indicates that believers will be sustained beginning from (Greek word ‘ek) the hour of trial until Jesus appears.

If true, a pre trib resurrection of believers, dead and alive could also fit. All we need to do there is have the new church exist IN the time of the tribulation. Tribulation saints in other words. He will be protecting some believers, and helping them a lot in that time. But He allows the believers to be killed, persecuted, and suffer in that time. (with some like the 144,000 and 2 witnesses being protected). So unless this was addressed to the 144,000 and the two witnesses, that application of the word would not fit.

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For example, ‘ek can mean “from, out of, away from, coming out of, descending from, by, because of, beginning from, begins from, for,” etc. On page 235 of this lexicon, the authors indicate that when the preposition is followed by a measurement of time – as in “the hour of trial,” ‘ek can convey the meaning “beginning from.”

In other words, a person is justified in reading this verse as follows: “I [Jesus] will also keep you beginning from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world. . . .”

In other words we should apply the best meaning that fits.

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a.   Jesus told His disciples, “ . . . And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age [world (KJV)].” (Matthew 28:20) This verse should be taken at face value. Jesus plainly said He will be with His children to the very last day when He physically and gloriously appears in the clouds. This idea concurs with Revelation 3:10: “I [Jesus] will also keep you beginning from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world. . . .”

He will be with the tribulation believers also. So that does not affect having the church resurrected before that time.

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b.    Several verses in Revelation indicate that the saints are on Earth during the Great Tribulation. The word “saints” is mentioned twelve times in Revelation (NIV) and thirteen times in the KJV. Except for the 144,000 servants who are taken to Heaven after the seven trumpets end and the 24 elders who were taken to Heaven at the time of Christ’s ascension, Revelation does not place the living saints in Heaven before the Second Coming.

We are alive when we go to be with the Lord in heaven where He is actually. Very much totally alive. In fact, in that time we will not only be alive as a spirit, but have our eternal bodies if we were Raptured as well. Since the scenes in Revelation are in heaven, of course believers are alive there. Jesus prepared for us a city. We do not wait to go there to be with Him till after the millennium!

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In fact, Revelation places the saints on Earth!

The saints in THAT time, of course. The saints still on earth at that time, to be more exact.

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I do not find support in Scripture for the idea that some saints are enjoying the bliss of Heaven while others are living through a hellish tribulation on Earth.

There are Christians in heaven right now as we speak. There are also Christians on earth being killed and persecuted.

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Instead, the purpose of the Great Tribulation is to test those people who live on Earth and to expose who the saints really are!

That time is the wrath of God. The beginning of the wrath of God, escalating and culminating in the destruction of the wicked totally. God in mercy saves multitudes who live in that hellish time. That does not mean He wants us to go through it. It means that since the world will go through that time of wrath and horrors and the rule of Satan on earth, He still has mercy and saves many people then. That does not mean He allowed His Bride to go through it and designed it so that she would have to!

Edited September 11, 2024 by dad2

[JoeCanada]

In the Book of Revelation, in the opening statement, we are told that God gave the Revelation to Jesus to give to His bond-servants: 

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place, and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,... Rev 1:1

Other translations say servants, bondsmen, slaves etc. We know from the New Testament Scriptures that this is referring to the followers of Christ, the church. John is called "His bond-servant" and we know that John is part of the church.

In Revelation 22:16 Jesus sent the same angel.... "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches"

"These things"? What are these things?

They can only be what was communicated beginning in  Rev 1 .... all the way thru to Rev 22. How can we know this?

"John who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.

Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near."... Rev 1:2

 ....................................John testified to the word of God.

 ....................................John testified to the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 ....................................John testified to all that he saw. (all that he saw)

That's what is written.

What did John see? 

Everything that is written in the book of Revelation.

John tells us "Blessed is the person who reads ....who hears.... and who heeds.... THE THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN IT"

What does it mean "to heed"?

To heed something is to listen to it, pay careful attention to it, or otherwise observe or acknowledge it in some way—and to take action on it. To heed a warning is to listen to it and do what it says to do. (dictionary.com)

The book of Revelation is God's letter to His servants, the church. Everything written in Revelation is for the church.

If a person  says "that the things written in Revelation are not for the church because the church is gone near  the beginning of Revelation" .... then that person is disputing the words of Jesus in Rev 1 and Rev 22:16. 

If a person acknowledges that Rev 1 and Rev 22:16 are true, that Jesus is speaking truth, that the things written in Revelation are for the church.... then what does that say for the pre-trib model?

OR

If a person denies that Rev 1 and Rev 22:16 are true, that Jesus isn't speaking truth, that  the things written in Revelation are not for the church as Jesus claims .... .................................................. then....

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be in that persons shoes ...

 

[douggg]

On 5/13/2003 at 7:37 AM, George said:

Hello brothers and sisters,

 

Since the forums got a little jumbled, I decided to go ahead and start a few new threads. This thread is the defense of the pre-trib rapture theological position.

 

Why do you believe in a pre trib rapture?

 

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

 

George

George, if I might make a suggestion.

Change the thread title from pre-trib to pre-trib (pre-70th week), i.e. (pre-70th week in parenthesis)

And make the same changes to the other view that have "trib" in them.

The reason being the pre-trib is a misleading term.   What is actually meant is pre-70th week of Daniel 9:27.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2024 by douggg