Who is Resurrected, and When?

[truth7t7]

6 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

OK, I asked where you got your opinion about Rev 20:1-6 not being literal, and you won't answer.  

I follow God's word and the Holy Spirit that dwells within me, I don't read or follow works of men

Jesus Is The Lord

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Consider Matthew 25: 

The Sheep and the Goats

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus comes in glory as the text records.  All nations are brought before Him.  Then there is a separation of sheep and goats.  If there were separate resurrections as you say there would not be this separation.  If the sheep and the goats are not there together Jesus's words become meaningless.

The Sheep/Goats represents (The Last Day) Resurrection, There Are (Two Groups) On This Last Day Resurrection And Final Judgement (Sheep/Goats) or (Saved/Unsaved)

There are (Two) resurrections on the (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life

2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Edited November 29, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, farouk said:

It's clear that in 1 Cor. 11.26 the Lord Jesus is speaking of the church at His coming.

I don't see, Jews, Gentiles and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32) all lumped together in God's plans and purposes.

There are two groups of people in the world today, saved and unsaved 

There will be two groups of people in the world at the Lord's second coming, saved and unsaved

Jesus Is The Lord

2 Peter 3:9KJV

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Edited November 29, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

6 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

When I read about the sheep and goats in Matt 25, it seems clear to me that this occurs at the GWT judgment, which is for the unsaved.  

Your claim is false stating Matthew 25 represents "Only" the unsaved, as the saved "Sheep" are present that obtain eternal life and the kingdom at this time, while the goats go to the eternal fire

One thing you have correct is, Matthew 25 is a parable of the GWT judgement

Jesus Is The Lord

[seeking the lost]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

OK, this is what I said:  "When I read about the sheep and goats in Matt 25, it seems clear to me that this occurs at the GWT judgment, which is for the unsaved.  So, where are all the glorified believers at this point?  Probably serving the King at this judgment.  So there will be "sheep" at the "goat" judgment, obviously."

In John 10, there ARE unsaved sheep.  Jesus spoke of both HIS sheep and those (sheep) who were NOT HIS.  Together, they make up THE sheep, for which Jesus said He would die for.

This is elementary.  Context is key here.  I never said Matt 25 had unsaved sheep.  

Are you referring to this verse in John 10: 16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd?

This verse does not say that they are not his but they are of another fold.  The first part of this verse says clearly that they are his. 

[seeking the lost]

53 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

The Sheep/Goats represents (The Last Day) Resurrection, There Are (Two Groups) On This Last Day Resurrection And Final Judgement (Sheep/Goats) or (Saved/Unsaved)

There are (Two) resurrections on the (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life

2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The second death not having no power over them refers to the time that satan is loosed for a period of time at the end of the thousand years.  Satan will deceive many but will not be able to deceive those who have been raised to reign.  All those that are deceived are those that have succumbed to the second death.

The first resurrection as stated in Revelation 20 is for those who were faithful unto death.  This does not include all that have named the name of Christ.  The parentheses inform us of when all the rest of the dead will be raised.

The second resurrection is at the end of the thousand years.  This resurrection is described for us in Revelation 20.  12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is the time when the books are opened and all are judged by what they have done.  The book of life is opened, and those not recorded in this book are cast into the lake.  The fact that some are raised to everlasting life and some to damnation does not mean that they cannot be raised at the same time.

[truth7t7]

15 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

The second death not having no power over them refers to the time that satan is loosed for a period of time at the end of the thousand years.  Satan will deceive many but will not be able to deceive those who have been raised to reign.  All those that are deceived are those that have succumbed to the second death.

The first resurrection as stated in Revelation 20 is for those who were faithful unto death.  This does not include all that have named the name of Christ.  The parentheses inform us of when all the rest of the dead will be raised.

The second resurrection is at the end of the thousand years.  This resurrection is described for us in Revelation 20.  12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is the time when the books are opened and all are judged by what they have done.  The book of life is opened, and those not recorded in this book are cast into the lake.  The fact that some are raised to everlasting life and some to damnation does not mean that they cannot be raised at the same time.

I disagree, there won't be a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

At this time of the second advent on (The Last Day) all that are in the Graves will hear his voice and come forth in resurrection, in the final judgment 

It will then be the eternal kingdom in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, all in the twinkling of an eye

Jesus Is The Lord

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Consider Matthew 25: 

The Sheep and the Goats

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus comes in glory as the text records.  All nations are brought before Him.  Then there is a separation of sheep and goats.  If there were separate resurrections as you say there would not be this separation.  If the sheep and the goats are not there together Jesus's words become meaningless.

Shalom, seeking the lost.

Sorry, but you're making a common error. The judgment of the sheep and goats is about NATIONS, not individuals! It is a WAR TRIBUNAL that occurs shortly after the Messiah has taken His role as King of Israel.

I keep trying to point out that this occurs when the Son of man arrives (verse 31) and becomes King (verse 34)! This is NOT the same as the First Resurrection, which has already happened by this point in time, NOR the Second Resurrection, which occurs AFTER the Millennium.

Also, notice that NO ONE is "THROWN" into the Lake of Fire at this time! They are simply sent away from the King's presence, consigned to their fates "into everlasting punishment!"

When the Great White Throne Judgment occurs, THEN those who are the children of the wicked one are THROWN into the Fire (Revelation 20:11-15; Matthew 13:30, 41-42)!

The key words in the parable of the Wheat and the Tares is this:

Matthew 13:41-43 (KJV)

41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM (that's been going on for a Millennium) all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And SHALL CAST THEM INTO A FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Notice carefully that these who offend and do iniquity are gathered by the angels OUT of the Messiah's Kingdom, and CAST (THROWN) into the "furnace of fire" - the LAKE OF FIRE!

Please! Consider this!

See, the Millennium is NOT about "peace and love throughout the world!" It's only peace and God's love within the Messiah's Kingdom. OUTSIDE His Kingdom, the King will be subduing all of His enemies for a THOUSAND YEARS! 

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

I disagree, there won't be a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

At this time of the second advent on (The Last Day) all that are in the Graves will hear his voice and come forth in resurrection, in the final judgment 

It will then be the eternal kingdom in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, all in the twinkling of an eye

Jesus Is The Lord

Shalom, truth7t7.

Yes, Yeeshuwa` IS the Lord! That word (kurios in the NT) means "Master!" And, it is MOST appropriate for the One who will RULE the whole World! It does NOT mean (in this context) "the LORD," which is the English way in some versions like the KJV of translating the tetragrammaton, "YHWH!" THAT Name was reserved for His Father, God! Learn the difference!

Secondly, learn what the Greek word "ouranos" means! It's not talking about some place who-knows-where where God dwells, called "Heaven!" That's a HUGE misunderstanding, usually fostered by one's understanding of 2 Corinthians 12:1-4. That is NOT what "third heaven" means, either!

Whoever was the first to suggest that...

d First heaven, of clouds;
second, of stars;
third, God's abode.
(2 Cor. 12:2 note in the Scofield Reference Edition of the KJV, p. 1238)

...did the whole Christian world a HUGE disservice!

The better understanding is PETER'S words in 2 Peter 3:3-13. There HE told us that the first heaven (and the first earth) were before the Flood, the second heaven (and the second earth) were after the Flood but were "reserved unto Fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." (2 Peter 3:7 cff. Revelation 20:7-15). The third heaven (and the third earth) will be the REMADE heaven and earth after the FIRE, upon which the New Jerusalem will land.

"Heaven" doesn't mean "God's abode" somewhere out there! God is OMNIPRESENT! He is present EVERYWHERE and doesn't HAVE an "abode!" (Psalm 139:7-10).

Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") is recorded saying the following (in red):

Matthew 16:1-4 (KJV)

1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven (Greek: ek tou ouranou = "out of-the sky"). 2 He answered and said unto them,

"When it is evening, ye say, 'It will be fair weather': for the sky (Greek: ho ouranos = "the sky") is red. 3 And in the morning, 'It will be foul weather to day': for the sky (Greek: ho ouranos = "the sky") is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky (Greek: tou ouranou = "of-the sky"); but can ye not discern the signs of the times? 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas!"

And he left them, and departed.

So, the TRUE "heaven" is the SKY! It is NOT where we go someday "after we die!" We are NEVER claimed in Scripture that we "go to Heaven after we die!"

Learn that, and you just might be able to get the Millennium right!

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, truth7t7.

Yes, Yeeshuwa` IS the Lord! That word (kurios in the NT) means "Master!" And, it is MOST appropriate for the One who will RULE the whole World! It does NOT mean (in this context) "the LORD," which is the English way in some versions like the KJV of translating the tetragrammaton, "YHWH!" THAT Name was reserved for His Father, God! Learn the difference!

Secondly, learn what the Greek word "ouranos" means! It's not talking about some place who-knows-where where God dwells, called "Heaven!" That's a HUGE misunderstanding, usually fostered by one's understanding of 2 Corinthians 12:1-4. That is NOT what "third heaven" means, either!

Whoever was the first to suggest that...

d First heaven, of clouds;
second, of stars;
third, God's abode.
(2 Cor. 12:2 note in the Scofield Reference Edition of the KJV, p. 1238)

...did the whole Christian world a HUGE disservice!

The better understanding is PETER'S words in 2 Peter 3:3-13. There HE told us that the first heaven (and the first earth) were before the Flood, the second heaven (and the second earth) were after the Flood but were "reserved unto Fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." (2 Peter 3:7 cff. Revelation 20:7-15). The third heaven (and the third earth) will be the REMADE heaven and earth after the FIRE, upon which the New Jerusalem will land.

"Heaven" doesn't mean "God's abode" somewhere out there! God is OMNIPRESENT! He is present EVERYWHERE and doesn't HAVE an "abode!" (Psalm 139:7-10).

Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") is recorded saying the following (in red):

Matthew 16:1-4 (KJV)

1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven (Greek: ek tou ouranou = "out of-the sky"). 2 He answered and said unto them,

"When it is evening, ye say, 'It will be fair weather': for the sky (Greek: ho ouranos = "the sky") is red. 3 And in the morning, 'It will be foul weather to day': for the sky (Greek: ho ouranos = "the sky") is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky (Greek: tou ouranou = "of-the sky"); but can ye not discern the signs of the times? 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas!"

And he left them, and departed.

So, the TRUE "heaven" is the SKY! It is NOT where we go someday "after we die!" We are NEVER claimed in Scripture that we "go to Heaven after we die!"

Learn that, and you just might be able to get the Millennium right!

I disagree, there won't be a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

At this time of the second advent on (The Last Day) all that are in the Graves will hear his voice and come forth in resurrection, in the final judgment 

It will then be the eternal kingdom in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, all in the twinkling of an eye

Jesus Is The Lord