Who is Resurrected, and When?

[WilliamL]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

But that's a FALSE DOCTRINE.,... if you believe what is written to which there can be no dispute

Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Not false at all. When Jesus arose from the dead, he took his body with him. If you say it will be any different for us, then you are deceived.

Out bodies, like his, will be raised from the dead and be transmuted into glorious (or inglorious, for evildoers) new forms. Just as the verse above you quoted indicates. J

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Rev 7 shows a group that has come out from within GT. No other group is depicted. The origin of this group is precisely defined. This group and only this group:

And 1 Cor 15:23 is also "precisely defined" as "those who belong to Him".  And you can't prove that the phrase leaves out ANY saved person.  That is just pure speculation, or worse, just an attempt to defend your 'version' of Rev 20, to fit your theories, or whoever's theory you have accepted.

You CAN'T define "those who belong to Him" any more precisely.  Why do you resist this truth?

Until you can prove that not all believers are included in that phrase, you have no case.

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Not false at all. When Jesus arose from the dead, he took his body with him. If you say it will be any different for us, then you are deceived.

Out bodies, like his, will be raised from the dead and be transmuted into glorious (or inglorious, for evildoers) new forms. Just as the verse above you quoted indicates. J

Well, You seem all set in that teaching...




So, for ANYONE who hasn't yet come to believe

thou sowest NOT that body that shall be,

REALLY MEANS

thou sowest THE BODY THAT SHALL BE.  (pure confusion being the EXACT opposite of what is written and in CONFLICT with the precepts of the bible in GENERAL)

AND we have ONE BODY that gets 'brought up' from the corruption and decay to be called 'glorified'....as a 'spiritual body', made without hands in the heavens  (??????)


Here are some verses to CONSIDER before deciding THAT is not for you,
as a reminder of HOW GOD SPEAKS ABOUT DEAD BODIES and why HE GAVE US 2, as opposed to 'one and a redo of it'.


He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days. Numbers 19:11 KJV


Numbers 5:2 - Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead

   

Leviticus 21:1 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people

Numbers 31:19 - And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 

Numbers 16:26 - And he spake unto the congregation, saying, Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of theirs, lest ye be consumed in all their sins. 
 

Leviticus 21:11 - Neither shall he go in to any dead body, nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother

Numbers 9:6 - And there were certain men, who were defiled by the dead body of a man, that they could not keep the passover on that day: and they came before Moses and before Aaron on that day:  

Numbers 9:10 - Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto the LORD.   (Verses like Numbers 9:10)

Numbers 19:16 - And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days.   

Leviticus 11:31 - These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even. 
 

Isaiah 52:11 - Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.  

 

2 Corinthians 6:17 - Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 

 

2 Corinthians 7:1 - Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 


I can hear it now, BUT THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB washes us clean.  BUT GOD ISN'T GOING to raise up decay from the corruption and call it glorified
especially 

WHEN IT IS WRITTEN WE ARE RAISED IN A SPIRITUAL BODY AND raised in GLORY to follow Him.


AND not from the DEPTHS of hell, THE CORRUPTION OF THE EARTH, THE PLACE OF THE DEAD 

NO DIFFERENT THAN THE DEAD....52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

And 1 Cor 15:23 is also "precisely defined" as "those who belong to Him".  And you can't prove that the phrase leaves out ANY saved person.  That is just pure speculation, or worse, just an attempt to defend your 'version' of Rev 20, to fit your theories, or whoever's theory you have accepted.

You CAN'T define "those who belong to Him" any more precisely.  Why do you resist this truth?

Until you can prove that not all believers are included in that phrase, you have no case.

Just like you can't prove 

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

is about ONLY the saved. 

or

that BOTH, the just and unjust, is in fact 'TWO SEPARATE resurrections'

and not 'A' resurrection, as IT IS WRITTEN time and again

 

[FreeGrace]

23 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Just like you can't prove

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

is about ONLY the saved. 

Why would anyone have to prove that "those who belong to Him" doesn't include every saved person?  It's OBVIOUS in the very words.  It leaves out no saved person.

The only way to disprove the phrase means every saved person is to prove that it 

CAN'T mean every saved person.  I stand by the ver words, which is clear enough in itself.  But you are free to refute that if you can prove 1 Cor 15:23 didn't mean "every saved person".

I don't know why you added 1 Cor 5:52.  Of course that is about ONLY the saved as well.  Just like v.23 is.

[Montana Marv]

8 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Like those teaching Jesus will be on this earth with mortal humans?

Beware Of The False Messiah, The Antichrist!

Jesus Is The Lord

Jesus follows this antichrist of yours in time to set up His Kingdom.  Mortal humans do need rain to grow crops.  Mortal humans do need to go year after year to celebrated the Feast of Tabernacles.  Mortal humans do need to be cleansed from sin and impurity.  Mortal humans do mourn and weep. Mortal humans will invite their neighbor to sit under their vine and fig trees.  The remnant of Israel will do no wrong, they will speak no lies, nor will deceit be found in their mouths. They will eat and lie down and no one will make them afraid.  Older mortal humans will need a cane to assist in walking.

Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.  This same Jesus, who was taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you saw him go into heaven.

Rev 20 - He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, and bound him for a 1000 years.  The Angel threw him into the Abyss and locked it.  Therefore keeping him from deceiving the nations anymore until the 1000 years have ended.  After that he must be set free for a short time.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

13 hours ago, Keras said:

Those GT martyrs will be raised, the rest of the Christians and everyone, must wait for the GWT Judgment, Rev 20:11-15

BTW, the GWT Judgment is only for the unsaved.  The books are opened.

N.T. Believers stand before the Bema Seat of Christ to receive their rewards.

Those dead in Christ are raised first. a resurrection, of sorts.  Up from the grave.  Then those in Christ who are still alive and remain will meet those (dead in Christ) in the air (not a resurrection, but a transformation).  We as N.T. Believers have already gone through the process of dying to self, being crucified with Christ (Gal 2:20) and being sealed and filled by the Holy Spirit.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Keras]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

the GWT Judgment is only for the unsaved.  The books are opened.

The Judgment that will happen after the Millennium, Revelation 20:11-15, is for EVERY human that has ever lived. As is clearly stated. 

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Those dead in Christ are raised first. a resurrection, of sorts.  Up from the grave. 

ONLY the GT martyrs will be raised when Jesus Returns, Rev 29:4-6, makes that clear. And those people, just back to mortal bodies.   No one receives immortality until the Book of Life is opened and Eternity commences. 

[Keras]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Why would anyone have to prove that "those who belong to Him" doesn't include every saved person?  It's OBVIOUS in the very words.  It leaves out no saved person.

The only way to disprove the phrase means every saved person is to prove that it 

CAN'T mean every saved person.  I stand by the ver words, which is clear enough in itself.  But you are free to refute that if you can prove 1 Cor 15:23 didn't mean "every saved person".

1 Cor 15:23 does not mean 'every saved person', Proved by the fact that there will be more saved people during the Millennium and by the plainly stated Words of Revelation 20:4-6     It is quite illogical to have millions of raised Christians populating the world during the Millennium. They have already lived their lives and they 'sleep' until the GWT Judgment, where it will be revealed who were true faithful Christians and who were lukewarm pew sitters. 

[FreeGrace]

9 minutes ago, Keras said:

1 Cor 15:23 does not mean 'every saved person'

[I'm getting tired of your repetition, all with out any evidence at all.]

Proved by the fact that there will be more saved people during the Millennium and by the plainly stated Words of Revelation 20:4-6

Where do you get that there will be more saved people during the MK?  Hm?

Certainly not from Rev 20:4-6.  Or show me the words.  I've read Revelation many many times.  I've never seen anything like what you are claiming.

The very words of 1 Cor 15:23 are the proof.

What you STILL CAN'T prove is that the phrase cannot mean "every saved person".

So, all you have is your claim.  Which is just an opinion.

I stand on the words of 1 Cor 15:23.  You have nothing to stand on.  Just your wishes and desires.  But you have no verses to back you up.

Yes, Rev 20:4-6 DO speak of two resurrections.  But they aren't both for the saved.

There is one resurrection for the saved, which is "when He comes".  The next resurrection is for the unsaved.

Here are 3 verses that plainly SAY that there will be a resurrection (singular) for the saved and a resurrection (singular) for the unsaved.

Dan 12:2, John 5:29, and Acts 24:15.