Explaining the Clay in the Daniel 2 Statue Prophecy

[luigi]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

 

Rev. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.(This is the SAME Angel in Rev. 9)

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

There is zero correlation with Rev. 9, this proves your point about the Star or Angel in Rev. 9 was a bad supposition, it proves that Angel is of God !! You helped me learn another talking point that helps me prove my understanding on this, it proves God does not designate his power unto Demons for chores per se.

Ask yourself: Why is God having Satan locked up in the bottomless pit, where Abaddon/Apollyon, the destroyer is the angel of; if the destroyer were not Satan?

 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

The demons in Revelation 9:20 are the things mankind makes with their hands which he worships. These things bring about the seven plagues in Revelation 8 and 9.

No, the 200 Million is a 2 Myriads of Angels (200 million) thus 10 is used for Completion or the whole hosts of heaven. 

1 hour ago, luigi said:

Put one and one together, and we see that the things mankind makes with his hands today are made through fossil fuel burning industries, that bring about the first four plagues in Revelation 8. The last three plagues in Revelation 9, are created by the power the destroyer provides the beast.

 

They refuse to repent even after the Plagues "OF God", that is all vs. 20 is saying, setting them up for the final Woe seen in Rev.16, the 7 Vial is the 3rd Woe which emits from the 7th Trump. 

1 hour ago, luigi said:

Ask yourself: Why is God having Satan locked up in the bottomless pit, where Abaddon/Apollyon, the destroyer is the angel of; if the destroyer were not Satan?

For the 1000 year reign where Jesus rules NOT Satan. Thus he was not locked up in the pit Apollyon was. Satan did not unlock the Bottomless Pit, this SAME Angel that bound Satan is the Messenger with the Key. Even you now see that. 

SMILE.................You do see it...............I just proved to you that the Angel with the Key is not Satan. 

[luigi]

Anyone else notice the correlation of the great woes coming on all inhabitants of the earth in Revelation 8:13, and the great woes coming on all inhabitants of the earth and sea in Revelation 12:12? As the great woes pronounced in Revelation 8:13 will be brought about by the falling star who opens the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, who is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek is Apollyon (Revelation 9:11), which translates into "the Destroyer"; the destroyer Abaddon/Apollyon is then realized another name for the devil Satan who brings about the great woes to all inhabitants of earth and sea in Revelation 12:12.

 Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

[Last Daze]

17 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Everything adds up to this being Apollyon, nothings adds up to it being Satan. 

Well, that could be true.

"The ruler of demons - Beelzebul" Mat 12:24

"King over them - Apollyon" Rev 9:11

Sounds like the same job description to me but I will concede that it may be a hierarchical thing where Satan is over all evil spirit beings and has appointed Apollyon over a subset.

How do you view the 10-horned beast in Daniel 7, the 7/10 beast of Rev 13, and the 7/10 beast in Rev 17?  Specifically, are they the same or different?

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Well, that could be true.

"The ruler of demons - Beelzebul" Mat 12:24

"King over them - Apollyon" Rev 9:11

Sounds like the same job description to me but I will concede that it may be a hierarchical thing where Satan is over all evil spirit beings and has appointed Apollyon over a subset.

Also, Apollyon is in the Bottomless Pit and Satan isn't. 

4 hours ago, Last Daze said:

How do you view the 10-horned beast in Daniel 7, the 7/10 beast of Rev 13, and the 7/10 beast in Rev 17?  Specifically, are they the same or different?

The Dan. 7 reference is unto Rome, the Fourth Beast who has 10 Horns of power that arise out of his head, which point to the E.U. arising at a later date and ANOTHER Little Horn (A.C.) arising "amongst them" meaning he is born in the 10 or E.U/Greece. (The 10 = Completion). 

Rev. 13 is the Little Horn with his 10 Horns (the E.U.) notice in Rev. 17 it says these 10 kings rule one hour with the Beast, and it says they give their power unto him, this sounds like an Election (E.U. Parliament) giving their power over to one man. (Little Horn)

Rev. 17 is the Scarlet Colored Beast but in the chapter it also at times speaks about his Man Servant the Anti-Christ, its back and forth a little bit here and there. Satan named Apollyon the "TASK MASTER" so to speak over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region (MSR). 

The 7 Heads and 10 Horns merely describe the players, from Egypt, to Babylon, to Rome to the Anti-Christ, and all the powers that be that ruled over Israel and the MSR, so the 7 and 10 are the physical nations they used to rule over Israel and the MSR throughout history. Then we are told about the different Entities that REALLY RULED, the powers that be, you know like when Rev. 13 says the Dragon gave the Beast/Little Horn/A.C. his power, authority and seat. That is us being told what Paul has already informed us about, that Flesh and Blood is not what we battle against but instead it is Principalities & Powers in HIGH PLACES (Satan and Apollyon).

So, Rev. 12 describes Satan, the god of this whole world as we speak. Rev. 13 describes his End Time Little Horn servant power he gives power unto, and Rev. 17 describes his UNDERLING Apollyon. 

The 7 and 10 are just describing the Physical Nations/Kingdoms they maneuver around like a chess board. When Michael was resisted for 21 days in Daniel chapter 10, IMHO, that was Apollyon. My guess is he knew if God via Michael wanted to topple Persia it had to have something to do with future events.

WOW...............this just hit me, I now know why he resisted Michael for 21 days. By reading the word of Daniel, even if Demons merely sat and watched him write it in the background, Satan knew that this great Grecian King was going to come forth and he knew if he could stop all of what we now know is Daniel 11 from happening, that would prove God a liar. (I got chills knowing I might be the first guy to ever see that.......LOL, I am weird like that)

Edited September 19, 2023 by Revelation Man

[WilliamL]

On 9/18/2023 at 4:01 PM, luigi said:

No one is currently in the bottomless pit.

The star who falls to the earth, to whom is given the key to open the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:1-2), is Abaddon/Apollyon, the angel of the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:11), which translates to "the destroyer". 

Scripture says otherwise:

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment...

Tartarus is a term from Greek mythology, referring to the lowest pit (the Abyss) of Hades/Hell, wherein the Titans – very powerful but rebellious spirits/“gods”/elohim of old – anciently had been cast down by the “good” elohim: that is, the biblical archangels.

The Book of Enoch, quoted in Jude 14-15, provides more details. Briefly, angelic Watchers (cf. Dan. 4:13, 17, 23) – “the sons of God” (Gen. 6:2) – became enamored by the beauty of human women, and came down – “left their habitation” (Jude 6) – to have God-forbidden intercourse with them. Genesis 6:1-2 paraphrases Enoch 7:1-2. ...

These angels and their hybrid progeny, the latter being the Nephilim/giants of Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33, soon corrupted mankind with sorcery, the arts of harlotry, and the arts of war. After “all flesh had corrupted their way” (Gen. 6:12), God decreed the Flood “to destroy from under heaven all flesh” except for Noah and his family. Gen. 6:17 At that time, God sent archangels to bind the rebellious Watchers, and to seal them into great pits rent in the earth:

Enoch 87:5 [They] cast them into the cavities of the earth. 10:15 “Bind them for 70 generations underneath the earth, even to the day of judgment… 9 …and in the great day of judgment let [them] be cast into the fire.”

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2780-the-beast-part-3-who-is-the-beast/

 

[WilliamL]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:08 AM, Last Daze said:

...I will concede that it may be a hierarchical thing where Satan is over all evil spirit beings and has appointed Apollyon over a subset.

Correct.

At the opening of Revelation 6ʼs Sixth Seal, a Latter Day

Revelation 6:12 …great earthquake… 14 …[causes] every mountain and island [to be] moved out of its place.”

Sometime thereafter,

Revelation 9:1 …a star having fallen from heaven to the earth…[will be] given the key to the pit [or, the shaft] of the Abyss. 2 And he [shall] open the pit of the Abyss,

thereby releasing its evil spirits. This “fallen star” will either be Satan or one of his host, recently “cast out [of heaven] to the earth” by Michael and his host. Rev. 12:7-9

Revelation 9:11 tells us that there is a “king over them [the Abyss’s evil spirits], the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon [Destroyer].” Evidence presented in Parts 3 and 4 reveal that this fallen angel must be Azazel, the worst of the descended rebellious spirits whose evils led to the destruction of the Noahic world. This is the Beast whose spirit has underlain the seven great beasts/kings/kingdoms of subsequent ages. Even as his spirit was before, and will be again, underlain by that of Satan the Dragon:

Enoch 53:5 …the host of Azazel… 6 …became ministers of Satan, and seduced those who dwell upon earth.

Revelation 13:2 The Dragon [will give] him [the Beast] his power, his throne, and great authority.

At this time, Satan will grant to Azazel the Beast “all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them” that he once offered to Jesus. Matt. 4:8

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2795-the-beast-part-5-the-king-of-the-abyss/

 

[luigi]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Scripture says otherwise:

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment...

Tartarus is a term from Greek mythology, referring to the lowest pit (the Abyss) of Hades/Hell, wherein the Titans – very powerful but rebellious spirits/“gods”/elohim of old – anciently had been cast down by the “good” elohim: that is, the biblical archangels.

The Book of Enoch, quoted in Jude 14-15, provides more details. Briefly, angelic Watchers (cf. Dan. 4:13, 17, 23) – “the sons of God” (Gen. 6:2) – became enamored by the beauty of human women, and came down – “left their habitation” (Jude 6) – to have God-forbidden intercourse with them. Genesis 6:1-2 paraphrases Enoch 7:1-2. ...

These angels and their hybrid progeny, the latter being the Nephilim/giants of Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33, soon corrupted mankind with sorcery, the arts of harlotry, and the arts of war. After “all flesh had corrupted their way” (Gen. 6:12), God decreed the Flood “to destroy from under heaven all flesh” except for Noah and his family. Gen. 6:17 At that time, God sent archangels to bind the rebellious Watchers, and to seal them into great pits rent in the earth:

Enoch 87:5 [They] cast them into the cavities of the earth. 10:15 “Bind them for 70 generations underneath the earth, even to the day of judgment… 9 …and in the great day of judgment let [them] be cast into the fire.”

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2780-the-beast-part-3-who-is-the-beast/

 

Future tense WilliamL,

Just like the Lord saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning (Luke 10:18); so too did the Lord see Jerusalem where not one stone will be on top of another (Luke 21:6). Both yet to come.

And if you claim otherwise;--then explain where and when Satan does fall from heaven in Revelation 12 (if he has already fallen from heaven), and where and when he then empowers the beast of seven heads and ten horns in Revelation 13?

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Correct.

At the opening of Revelation 6ʼs Sixth Seal, a Latter Day

Revelation 6:12 …great earthquake… 14 …[causes] every mountain and island [to be] moved out of its place.”

Sometime thereafter,

Revelation 9:1 …a star having fallen from heaven to the earth…[will be] given the key to the pit [or, the shaft] of the Abyss. 2 And he [shall] open the pit of the Abyss,

thereby releasing its evil spirits. This “fallen star” will either be Satan or one of his host, recently “cast out [of heaven] to the earth” by Michael and his host. Rev. 12:7-9

I think the Rev. 20 Angel that locks up Satan has the Key, not Satan. So, that, in my mind, proves the Angel that descends with the Key in Rev. 9 is an Angelic Being not a Demon, what say you?

 

[Revelation Man]

45 minutes ago, luigi said:

Future tense WilliamL,

Just like the Lord saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning (Luke 10:18); so too did the Lord see Jerusalem where not one stone will be on top of another (Luke 21:6). Both yet to come.

And if you claim otherwise;--then explain where and when Satan does fall from heaven in Revelation 12 (if he has already fallen from heaven), and where and when he then empowers the beast of seven heads and ten horns in Revelation 13?

The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, the Outer Walls was added by Herod the Great, its not a part Of the temple, it is the Outer Court of the Gentiles. Now notice Rev. 11 it specifically gives us a GUIDELINE to whom the Two-witnesses are sent back unto, in order to get them to repent.

Rev. 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure (1)the temple of God, and the (2)altar, and (3)them that worship therein.

{{{ So, how do you "TAKE MEASURE" of the Jews? Yes, John could have measured the Temple & Altar, but by throwing in AND The Jews that Worship Therein, and since only Jews were allowed into the Temple and Altar area, I think only the Priests were allowed into the Altar area, so John is told, in essence, to take a Measurement of THEM who are allowed into the Temple, the Jews only and the Priests and High Priest. It is not about the Temple per se, its about Israel, whom we know Elijah is sent back unto, in order to get them to turn back unto God as says Malachi 4:5-6. So, John is supposed to take a measurement or to NOTICE this is the Two-witnesses Ministry. That is what MEASURE means here, TO AKNOWLEDE THEIR CALLNG IN THIS PASSAGE. }}}

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:(Do not THINK these Two-witnesses are come unto the Gentiles, they are come ONLY to the Jews) and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Revelation Man