The Day of the Lord, will the church be raptured?

[rollinTHUNDER]

What's kind of funny, is how lamad thinks he's disagreeing with me, when he actually has agreed to what I showed in my post when he wrote this...

 

 

^"3 And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again [to earth], and receive you unto myself [on earth]; that where I am [on earth], there [on earth] ye may be also."

 

 

The heavenly will be revealed to all peoples, right here on this earth. This is where Jesus is coming to, and where He will gather us, to the area on earth in the holy land, which is where His Millennial temple will be established, with its "mansions" (abodes), which is about the abodes of the priests who will reign with Him.

 

Right now our Lord Jesus is preparing those mansions for us in... Heaven. But at His coming those will be on earth within the Holy City of Ezekiel 40 forward.

The gathering will take place in the clouds, and in the air (1 Thes.4:16-17/ Matt.24:30-31). And only those who are ready (faithful servants) will be attending the wedding supper, but the believers that are caught unaware will be left with the unbelievers (Luke 12:46). Read the whole parable Luke 12:35-48.

Cheers

[Guest]

The Oblation (Area)

 

"The area set aside for the LORD's Temple will be 8-1/3 miles long and 6-2/3 miles wide. Ezekiel 48:9 (NLT)

 

~

 

But you failed to quote anything... from the Ezekiel 40 through 48 Scripture, so you've left a lot out.

 

 

But Beloved, You Did Such A Fine Job

 

The oblation that ye shall offer unto the LORD shall be of five and twenty thousand in length, and of ten thousand in breadth.

 

And for them, even for the priests, shall be this holy oblation; toward the north five and twenty thousand in length, and toward the west ten thousand in breadth, and toward the east ten thousand in breadth, and toward the south five and twenty thousand in length: and the sanctuary of the LORD shall be in the midst thereof.

 

It shall be for the priests that are sanctified of the sons of Zadok; which have kept my charge, which went not astray when the children of Israel went astray, as the Levites went astray.

 

And this oblation of the land that is offered shall be unto them a thing most holy by the border of the Levites.

 

And over against the border of the priests the Levites shall have five and twenty thousand in length, and ten thousand in breadth: all the length shall be five and twenty thousand, and the breadth ten thousand. Ezekiel 48:9-13

 

Up For A Little Feasting With The LORD Jesus?

 

Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

 

And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.

 

Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.

 

And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.

 

And the meat offering shall be an ephah for a ram, and the meat offering for the lambs as he shall be able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

 

And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.

 

And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

 

And when the prince shall enter, he shall go in by the way of the porch of that gate, and he shall go forth by the way thereof.

 

But when the people of the land shall come before the LORD in the solemn feasts, he that entereth in by the way of the north gate to worship shall go out by the way of the south gate; and he that entereth by the way of the south gate shall go forth by the way of the north gate: he shall not return by the way of the gate whereby he came in, but shall go forth over against it.

 

And the prince in the midst of them, when they go in, shall go in; and when they go forth, shall go forth.

 

And in the feast and in the solemnities the meat offering shall be an ephah to a bullock, and ephah to a ram, and to the lambs as he is able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

 

Now when the prince shall prepare a voluntary burnt offering or peace offerings voluntarily unto the LORD, one shall then open him the gate that looketh toward the east, and he shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, as he did on the sabbath day: then he shall go forth; and after his going forth one shall shut the gate.

 

Thou shalt daily prepare a burnt offering unto the LORD of a lamb of the first year without blemish: thou shalt prepare it every morning.

 

And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a meat offering continually by a perpetual ordinance unto the LORD.

 

Thus shall they prepare the lamb, and the meat offering, and the oil, every morning for a continual burnt offering. Ezekiel 46:1-15

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

You might want to run your theory passed Isaiah 10:6-15 first

 

The Hebrew word shal-vaw is used for peace in Dan.8:25, which is used for the ideas of prosperity, peace, abundance, quiteness in other Scriptures.

 

But Dan.8:25 is not the last word on the matter, Christ's Olivet Discourse and His Revelation directly relate also, as does Apostle Paul's "Peace and safety" the deceived will be saying for the tribulation.

 

So once again, as on many threads on forums like these, those who try to slice and dice Scripture to make it mean something entirely different than God's Word as whole declares, are shown to be faulty and lacking in their understanding.

 

Sorry Salty, but Daniel chapter 8 is about Antiochus, NOT the Beast of Revelation.

 

LAMAD

[Salty]

 

What's kind of funny, is how lamad thinks he's disagreeing with me, when he actually has agreed to what I showed in my post when he wrote this...

 

 

^"3 And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again [to earth], and receive you unto myself [on earth]; that where I am [on earth], there [on earth] ye may be also."

 

 

The heavenly will be revealed to all peoples, right here on this earth. This is where Jesus is coming to, and where He will gather us, to the area on earth in the holy land, which is where His Millennial temple will be established, with its "mansions" (abodes), which is about the abodes of the priests who will reign with Him.

 

Right now our Lord Jesus is preparing those mansions for us in... Heaven. But at His coming those will be on earth within the Holy City of Ezekiel 40 forward.

The gathering will take place in the clouds, and in the air (1 Thes.4:16-17/ Matt.24:30-31). And only those who are ready (faithful servants) will be attending the wedding supper, but the believers that are caught unaware will be left with the unbelievers (Luke 12:46). Read the whole parable Luke 12:35-48.

Cheers

 

 

There's more written about the events of the end than the marriage supper. 1 Cor.15 goes with 1 Thess.4, same timing, the resurrection and gathering to Christ. Per Acts 1 and Zech.14, Jesus is returning to the Mount of Olives when He comes, so if you're still expecting to be up in the clouds at that point then it will mean you are left without a home.

[iamlamad]

 

 

What's kind of funny, is how lamad thinks he's disagreeing with me, when he actually has agreed to what I showed in my post when he wrote this...

 

 

^"3 And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again [to earth], and receive you unto myself [on earth]; that where I am [on earth], there [on earth] ye may be also."

 

 

The heavenly will be revealed to all peoples, right here on this earth. This is where Jesus is coming to, and where He will gather us, to the area on earth in the holy land, which is where His Millennial temple will be established, with its "mansions" (abodes), which is about the abodes of the priests who will reign with Him.

 

Right now our Lord Jesus is preparing those mansions for us in... Heaven. But at His coming those will be on earth within the Holy City of Ezekiel 40 forward.

The gathering will take place in the clouds, and in the air (1 Thes.4:16-17/ Matt.24:30-31). And only those who are ready (faithful servants) will be attending the wedding supper, but the believers that are caught unaware will be left with the unbelievers (Luke 12:46). Read the whole parable Luke 12:35-48.

Cheers

 

 

There's more written about the events of the end than the marriage supper. 1 Cor.15 goes with 1 Thess.4, same timing, the resurrection and gathering to Christ. Per Acts 1 and Zech.14, Jesus is returning to the Mount of Olives when He comes, so if you're still expecting to be up in the clouds at that point then it will mean you are left without a home.

 

I was merely pointing out how silly your theory is: Jesus has spent 2000 years, more or less, preparing places for us, but then forgets to take us to those places. That is SILLY.

 

I do agree, AFTER the Millennial reign of Christ, the Holy City will come down to earth. But the rapture will be the next big event on the horizon. Those who believe in the pretrib rapture will be caught up and will spend 7 plus years in those mansions.  Yes, of course the day will come when He touches the earth. His coming at that time is well written in Rev. 19, where He comes WITH His saints. However, the rapture coming is written in 1 Thes 4, where Paul shows us the rapture will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord. There is simply no possible way that can be His coming in Rev. 19. The two comings are 7 plus years apart.

 

Yes, there is more than the marriage written, but you cannot just sidestep that issue, for it shows clearly how wrong a post trib rapture is: NO ONE from earth will make it to the marriage after Jesus comes, for at that time the marriage will be HISTORY. John shows this very clearly: the marriage and supper will be in heaven BEFORE Jesus descends. Any other theory on the place or timing will be twisting scripture to fit a false theory.

 

Salty, by now MANY people have been to heaven and SEEN these mansions with their own eyes, and then been allowed to come back and share what they saw. Some have seen their OWN mansion. Some have seen the preparations for the marriage supper. Your theory has to IGNORE all these personal testimonies.

 

I choose to believe what is written; that the rapture comes FIRST, before the 70th week, where Jesus comes to GET His bride.

 

LAMAD

[Marilyn C]

So to all `mansion` believers -

 

In our new bodies like Christ that can go through walls & dimensions - supernatural, why do we need a `mansion?`

 

Will you need to have a bedroom to sleep in? No.

Will you need a bathroom to wash in? No.

Will you need a kitchen to prepare food? No.

Will you need a lounge to sit by the fire? No.

Will you need a garage? No.

etc  etc

 

`For we know that if the earthly tent is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this house (body) we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling (new body) from heaven.`  (2 Cor. 5: 1 & 2)

[Persuaded]

LAMAD,

Then by reasoning your theory is false...Israel has always been the bride of God and not the church. God can not have two wives.

From your dispensation view, you do the very thing you accuse replacement theologians of, replacing Israel with the church

Israel is not described as the bride, but as the adulterous (idolatrous) wife of God, as the woman giving birth to the man child which the dragon has tried (throughout Israel's history, all the way back to Eve) to devour. It's important to recognize that this woman is a wife (not a bride), she is unfaithful (not a virgin), and a mother (again, not a virgin), but that God still adores her.

 

The bride of Christ is a different gal. These are two conceptually related metaphors, but like any metaphor things get silly if pushed too far. The church is also described as sheep or flock, as the body or parts of the body, as a temple or tabernacle, as a priesthood, as a family (1 Tim 5:1,2), and as a bride. Each metaphor is used to describe an attribute or characteristic, but the metaphors don't (necessarily) interact with each other. Similarly, it's silly to call God a two-timer if we recognize that He has used the metaphor of wife for Israel and bride for the church.

 

Paul tells us in Eph 5 that marriage is a model of the Church's relationship to Christ:

 

[Eph 5:30,32 KJV] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

 

Perhaps it's better to see "his body" as a "one flesh" reference to a marriage?

 

Paul describes the bride:

[2Co 11:2 KJV] For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.

 

It's useful to take a look at the traditional jewish wedding, as a backdrop for much of the NT. We have the Ketubah or betrothal, where the bridegroom takes the initiative to negotiate a price (mohar) to purchase her. Then, the covenant is made, and they are considered to be husband and wife. The bride is "sanctified", set apart, for her bridegroom. They drank from a cup of wine to symbolize the covenant. Next the bridegroom left the bride and went home to his father's house and prepared their dwelling place in the father's house. The bride prepared her trousseau and made herself ready for marriage. This went on for a year or so. When he was ready, the bridegroom came, generally at night, to take the bride to live with him. The bridegroom, best man and attendants walked in a torch lit procession to the bride's house. The bride was expecting the bridegroom, but didn't know the exact time he would come. So the bridegroom would announce his coming with a shout. The bridegroom received the bride, and she and her attendants joined the bridegroom and his attendants home to the father's house. The bride and groom were escorted to the bridal chamber (huppah). With attendants outside, the bride and groom went inside alone and consummated the marriage, the groom announced the consummation, the bride gave her proof of virginity to a bridesmaid who gave it to the bride's father as future proof against claims she wasn't a virgin, and the attendants returned to the party to announce the consummation while the bride and groom returned to the huppah. The guests partied for seven days while the bride and groom remained in the huppah. Afterward, the groom brought his bride out, unveiled her, and presented her as his wife to everyone. (Taken mostly from the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia)

 

 

And Marilyn, Christ never appeared in His resurrection body without sharing a meal with someone. So that mansion (room, place) better at least have a dining hall!

[Salty]

So to all `mansion` believers -

 

In our new bodies like Christ that can go through walls & dimensions - supernatural, why do we need a `mansion?`

 

Will you need to have a bedroom to sleep in? No.

Will you need a bathroom to wash in? No.

Will you need a kitchen to prepare food? No.

Will you need a lounge to sit by the fire? No.

Will you need a garage? No.

etc  etc

 

`For we know that if the earthly tent is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this house (body) we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling (new body) from heaven.`  (2 Cor. 5: 1 & 2)

 

That word "mansion" simply means 'abode' in the Greek. The translators were adding a bit of flair to that idea. The abodes of the priests that begin in Christ's Millennium reign are written of in Ezekiel 40 forward. That's the abodes Jesus was talking about.

 

Ezek.40

⁴⁶ And the chamber whose prospect is toward the north is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the altar: these are the sons of Zadok among the sons of Levi, which come near to the Lord to minister unto Him.

[Salty]

Israel is not described as the bride, but as the adulterous (idolatrous) wife of God, as the woman giving birth to the man child which the dragon has tried (throughout Israel's history, all the way back to Eve) to devour. It's important to recognize that this woman is a wife (not a bride), she is unfaithful (not a virgin), and a mother (again, not a virgin), but that God still adores her.

 

 

The bride of Christ is a different gal. These are two conceptually related metaphors, but like any metaphor things get silly if pushed too far. The church is also described as sheep or flock, as the body or parts of the body, as a temple or tabernacle, as a priesthood, as a family (1 Tim 5:1,2), and as a bride. Each metaphor is used to describe an attribute or characteristic, but the metaphors don't (necessarily) interact with each other. Similarly, it's silly to call God a two-timer if we recognize that He has used the metaphor of wife for Israel and bride for the church.

 

Paul tells us in Eph 5 that marriage is a model of the Church's relationship to Christ:

 

[Eph 5:30,32 KJV] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

 

Perhaps it's better to see "his body" as a "one flesh" reference to a marriage?

 

Paul describes the bride:

[2Co 11:2 KJV] For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.

 

It's useful to take a look at the traditional jewish wedding, as a backdrop for much of the NT. We have the Ketubah or betrothal, where the bridegroom takes the initiative to negotiate a price (mohar) to purchase her. Then, the covenant is made, and they are considered to be husband and wife. The bride is "sanctified", set apart, for her bridegroom. They drank from a cup of wine to symbolize the covenant. Next the bridegroom left the bride and went home to his father's house and prepared their dwelling place in the father's house. The bride prepared her trousseau and made herself ready for marriage. This went on for a year or so. When he was ready, the bridegroom came, generally at night, to take the bride to live with him. The bridegroom, best man and attendants walked in a torch lit procession to the bride's house. The bride was expecting the bridegroom, but didn't know the exact time he would come. So the bridegroom would announce his coming with a shout. The bridegroom received the bride, and she and her attendants joined the bridegroom and his attendants home to the father's house. The bride and groom were escorted to the bridal chamber (huppah). With attendants outside, the bride and groom went inside alone and consummated the marriage, the groom announced the consummation, the bride gave her proof of virginity to a bridesmaid who gave it to the bride's father as future proof against claims she wasn't a virgin, and the attendants returned to the party to announce the consummation while the bride and groom returned to the huppah. The guests partied for seven days while the bride and groom remained in the huppah. Afterward, the groom brought his bride out, unveiled her, and presented her as his wife to everyone. (Taken mostly from the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia)

 

 

And Marilyn, Christ never appeared in His resurrection body without sharing a meal with someone. So that mansion (room, place) better at least have a dining hall!

 

 

But also...

 

Eph.2

¹¹ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

¹² That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

¹³ But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

 

That reveals that God's Israel is... Christ's Church. And now Apostle Paul called it a "commonwealth" or state (Greek politeia), because it is to include believing Gentiles (which was foretold first in the OT prophets).

[Persuaded]

Is the Ezekiel 40 temple "my Father's house"? -certainly not in the sense Jesus is using it in John 14. Will God again dwell in a building made with hands? Will He be behind a veil, again???

 

----

 

The commonwealth of Israel is just Israel, the state of Israel. That verse says we are still aliens to the state of Israel. We haven't become Israelites, Hebrews, or Jews. They received the promises and covenants, and the means (the Law) by which God could be approached. Now we, not through their promises or covenants, but by the blood of the new covenant, can approach God. We haven't changed ethnicity; but our access, which we lacked in times past, is now made available by the cross. The method of access changed, not the ethnicity of we who now have access.