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a thought to consider: free will

mevosper

By mevosper
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mevosper

mevosper

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But, he cannot gratify himself as long as there is a church, the bride of Christ, and as long as there is an Israel Satan CANNOT be gratified. 

I see where you are coming from. He will not rise above God, correct. That's not the idea I was trying to convey. 

However, he does things for his own pleasure because all he cares about is himself and his name. 

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Littlelambseativy
Littlelambseativy

I'm not so certain Satan uses his free will for self gratification as it is destroying the church for which Jesus gave His life. He tried to stop Jesus countless times and if Jesus succeeds in rapturi

Littlelambseativy
Littlelambseativy

But, he cannot gratify himself as long as there is a church, the bride of Christ, and as long as there is an Israel Satan CANNOT be gratified. If he can prevent currently and future,the church from be

mevosper
mevosper

It is 100% Him. Your .1% is still self saying "Ok, God, I can choose to agree or not, but I'm gonna ..." 

Qnts2

Qnts2

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Posted

 

But, he cannot gratify himself as long as there is a church, the bride of Christ, and as long as there is an Israel Satan CANNOT be gratified. 

I see where you are coming from. He will not rise above God, correct. That's not the idea I was trying to convey. 

However, he does things for his own pleasure because all he cares about is himself and his name. 

 

 

Satan has the desire to do things to make himself the god of this world, and subject everything to him. He has chosen to work towards accomplishing his desires. Whether he succeeds or not (and he won't ultimately), he has exercised his free will in trying to accomplish what he wants.

 

On the other side, a person has free will. Now, if I wanted to be a bird and fly like a bird, I can work towards my desires, even though I might not succeed. It is my free will to decide to work towards what I want. As a believer, I desire to serve God, and by my free will choose to do that, working towards serving God. I might also desire to be a multi-billionaire and with my own free will, work towards that goal. I will probably not succeed but success has little to do with free will. Free will is simply being able to choose and then, acting on that choice. It does not guarantee success.

 

So, with my ability to choose, free will, I can choose to serve God, or seek money.

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mevosper

mevosper

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Posted

 

 

But, he cannot gratify himself as long as there is a church, the bride of Christ, and as long as there is an Israel Satan CANNOT be gratified. 

I see where you are coming from. He will not rise above God, correct. That's not the idea I was trying to convey. 

However, he does things for his own pleasure because all he cares about is himself and his name. 

 

 

 

On the other side, a person has free will. Now, if I wanted to be a bird and fly like a bird, I can work towards my desires, even though I might not succeed. It is my free will to decide to work towards what I want. As a believer, I desire to serve God, and by my free will choose to do that, working towards serving God. I might also desire to be a multi-billionaire and with my own free will, work towards that goal. I will probably not succeed but success has little to do with free will. Free will is simply being able to choose and then, acting on that choice. It does not guarantee success.

 

 

Any person God has called will have a true desire to do His will. Can we fail? Yes. Can we sin? Yes... Can we do it willfully?..... Yes, but this happens less and less as we grow and mature in His Spirit and Grace. God is so gracious and merciful to our shortcomings. But this does not mean that we continue to sin. We fall on our faces and beg for his mercy, just as David talked about. And yes, this does sound sappy, but it is not unbiblical. Paul had a thorn in his side, a weakness in His flesh (2 Cor 12:7-9), but he was God's messenger to the Gentiles. God chose Paul to do His will. 

 

I found it ironic you would choose to be a bird or a "multi-billionaire". If I had to guess, i would say these would be in the top 10 answers of the 100 people who were surveyed (Family Feud pun). Here's the irony. You can fly like that of a bird:

 

Isa 40:31 KJV - [31] But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

 

But wealth and riches can be a downfall:

 

1Ti 6:10 KJV - [10] For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

 

Mat 19:24 KJV - [24] And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

 

 

 

But, he cannot gratify himself as long as there is a church, the bride of Christ, and as long as there is an Israel Satan CANNOT be gratified. 

I see where you are coming from. He will not rise above God, correct. That's not the idea I was trying to convey. 

However, he does things for his own pleasure because all he cares about is himself and his name. 

 

 

So, with my ability to choose, free will, I can choose to serve God, or seek money.

 

...and again, with your ability...   you can choose.... This sounds like a Bing Crosby tune, or a Burger King commercial (which oddly enough is changing their slogan from "Have it your way" to "Be your way")

 

Do you see the "spirit" of freewill? 

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disciplehelovestoo

disciplehelovestoo

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i see free will a bit differently.  i don't see that we can choose between what God wants, what the devil wants, and what we want - the last choice is invalid.

 

:) 

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Riverwalker

Riverwalker

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Surely you don't think God gave Satan a great big hammer and let him loose on the world....God has him on a leash

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Will M

Will M

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Posted (edited)

I have a bit of a different perspective. We have a free will but God knows every thought, action and decision, so even though we are making choices, we make them according to what is already known by God. Jesus chose us not the other way around, only God knows why He chose me.He leads us to even experience repentance. 

 

My free will is there, I can by food or not, have a bath or not etc. but when it comes to the plan of God He is not shocked because He knows everything. 

That to me is awe inspiring. Every person, every thought, every action, every hair. WOW. 

praise God forever.

-Will

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OakWood

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Posted

 

Riverwalk - interesting reply, but I think you either missed the point. Or, you got the point and are trying to redirect.  

 

My point in the post above is that Satan uses his freewill for his own gratification.

 

When we are making a free will decision, we are doing it according to our own will - not anyone else's, including God's. The thought process is: "i have free will to choose what I want to do when I want to do it". It's all about "self". 

Satan is a tool of God

 

He is not a human, He is bereft of freewill. and choices he made God gave him....to complete his will

 

Would Jesus ever have been crucified without the devil working the scene

 

He is a rat being led through the maze

 

He could inflict Job until God allowed it

 

 

I think you're confusing free will with power. Satan has free will alright, otherwise he wouldn't have rebelled against God, he would just have been a robot programmed to do as God told him.

He couldn't inflict Job until God allowed it because he didn't have the authority to do so. In other words his power was limited until God allowed him to use what power he had.

An analogy: I have the free will to fly to the Moon. Nobody could take that desire to do so away from me, if I chose to want to do it. However, the laws of Physics, the fact that I don't possess a pair of wings, nor do I possess my own rocket, would prevent me from doing so.

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Willa

Willa

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Posted

I like Joseph's reply to his brothers' selling him to the egyptians. You meant it for evil but God meant it for good. God used their treachery to eventually preserve them. He hused Judas' treachery to eventually save all believers from their sin. There is nothing too dark and sinister that God can't triumph in.

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OneLight

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Posted

 

 

Riverwalk - interesting reply, but I think you either missed the point. Or, you got the point and are trying to redirect.  

 

My point in the post above is that Satan uses his freewill for his own gratification.

 

When we are making a free will decision, we are doing it according to our own will - not anyone else's, including God's. The thought process is: "i have free will to choose what I want to do when I want to do it". It's all about "self". 

 

I disagree, in part, to the above statement.  Is it not Gods will that we continue to follow Him, that His Spirit convicts us of sin to a point of repentance, which we are free to accept or reject?  If we reject, that is our choice we have made on our own, but if we repent, it is in obedience to His will and His work in our lives.  We cannot do this ourselves, so the "I" turns into a "we" when we take a closer look at how the decision came about.  I take no credit for following God, it is 99.9% Him and .1% me, since I had to agree.

 

It is 100% Him. Your .1% is still self saying "Ok, God, I can choose to agree or not, but I'm gonna ..." 

 

 

 I offer you a gift.  Until you accept it, you do not possess it.  Think about it a bit more.

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kwikphilly

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Posted

Blessings to All,,,,,,,,& to God be the Glory

     I do strongly agree with......

 

disagree, in part, to the above statement.  Is it not Gods will that we continue to follow Him, that His Spirit convicts us of sin to a point of repentance, which we are free to accept or reject?  If we reject, that is our choice we have made on our own, but if we repent, it is in obedience to His will and His work in our lives.  We cannot do this ourselves, so the "I" turns into a "we" when we take a closer look at how the decision came about.  I take no credit for following God, it is 99.9% Him and .1% me, since I had to agree

                                                                                                                                                                                                                               posted by One Light

and then  I just love Wills post,,,,,. that ,for me,,,is the bottom line....................

 

I have a bit of a different perspective. We have a free will but God knows every thought, action and decision, so even though we are making choices, we make them according to what is already known by God. Jesus chose us not the other way around, only God knows why He chose me.He leads us to even experience repentance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              posted by Will M

Amen!!!! Halleluyah!!!    I often say I do not even want free will,not left on my own decision making but to walk in Spirit & in Truth with the Heart & Mind of Christ......Praise the Lord,He drew me unto Himself ,He took my place ,He offered me life eternal with Him but He knew before He laid the foundations of the earth what my choice would be,,,,,,,,He chose me as His very own before I was in my mothers womb.........because He already knew my entire life & my life choices,from beginning to end,,,,,,,did I really have a choice to make?Was it by my own power?I don't know,I don't believe so.......I do not think I am wise e5nough to make any choices by myself but by the Power of His Holy Spirit,by His guidance ,direction,conviction & by His calling..........hmmm?Interesting conversation but honestly,I can only attribute every good decision to my Lord & Savior,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Bless His Holy Name!!!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                            With love-in Christ,Kwik

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