a thought to consider: free will

[angels4u]

It's a subject that has been debated in the church since there was a church, and I have never read one complete answer (Kind of like the P word, you know, Predestination - a subject many a pastor shies away from preaching)

 

My best explanation (to myself), is that God knows the history of my future, (think about that for a second), and it is I, with my free will, who chose to direct the direction of that future.

 God knows the history of my future,

 

Amen ! It's deep thinking but so true Praise the Lord for He is good!

[Ezra]

"free will" is what "I" choose to do, regardless of anything else. 

That definition superimposes on free will the idea that free will = choosing selfish desires only, with no consideration of anything else.  But that is false.

 

We have Scriptures to prove that free will can be and should be exercised to serve the Lord and obey Him.  Indeed all God's blessings to Israel were contingent upon free will obedience to His commandments.

 

Lev 1:2,3 -- Free will exercised in worship

²Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.

³If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

 

Rom 2:14,15 -- Free will dictated by conscience = obedience to the Law

¹⁴For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

¹⁵Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

[mevosper]

 

"free will" is what "I" choose to do, regardless of anything else. 

That definition superimposes on free will the idea that free will = choosing selfish desires only, with no consideration of anything else.  But that is false.

That is exactly what it is. 

 

Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV) "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure; who can know it?"

 

 

Concerning the law written on their hearts, it is already planned to happen. Much like a book. The pages are already written. 

 

Jeremiah 31:33 (KJV) "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." (ref Hebrews 10:16, Romans 2:15)

 

Isaiah 46:10 (KJV) "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying , My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure"

Isaiah 14:24 (KJV) "The LORD Almight has sworn, "Surely, as I have planned, so it will be, and as I have purposed, so it will happen."

 

 

Ezra said: We have Scriptures to prove that free will can be and should be exercised to serve the Lord and obey Him.  Indeed all God's blessings to Israel were contingent upon free will obedience to His commandments.

 

"...can be and should be". Our flesh has a terrible habit of doing itself favors - hence - ultimately the flesh won out in the Old Testament and the people rebelled against God. They "free willed" right into reprobate minds.

 

Our "free will" is what we want to do. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by mevosper

[enoob57]

The Theological ideals set forth in His Word lie in a foundation upon two elements :
First we  are originally created as the imaged of God- not God but His image. This solidifies having beginning
by that which is necessary to reflect of 'Being' I am that I am so that we are imaged in the eternity...
Second built upon eternity we learn that God 'IS' an no other- leaving the record that God 'IS' Who He 'IS'
by no outside influence choosing that which 'IS' to be His infinite makeup in infinite decide...
Immutable resolve lies in the 'IS'  thus we are held accountable as re-imaged by new birth allowing only
God's Being only that which He 'IS' to imaged us as freewill chosen in Him to be imaged by His Own
reflection... What we are trying to understand in division can only be resolved in the never ending reflection
of our Lord in perfect unity
John 17:21-22
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee,
that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou
hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them;
that they may be one, even as we are one:
KJV
We are in this communication of God in us-> the freewill choice of the elected free will image
of God-> a unity of unbounded image trying to resolve by binding that which cannot be bound...
When you look in a mirror do you expect to see anything other than that which only 'IS' being
The only without begin or end? Truly we are to reflect that which elected in free will!
Love, Steven

[Ezra]

"...can be and should be". Our flesh has a terrible habit of doing itself favors - hence - ultimately the flesh won out in the Old Testament and the people rebelled against God. They "free willed" right into reprobate minds.

 

 

It helps no one to go beyond Scripture, and indeed it can be very damaging to those who may be new in the faith.

 

Your attempt to equate free will with the flesh goes contrary to (and beyond) Scripture.  I already quoted from Scripture where God says (Lev 1:2) "he shall offer it OF HIS OWN VOLUNTARY WILL". That was an offering to the LORD which was brought freely and exercising free will.  Then I quoted "freewill offerings" also.  You simply ignored Scripture, and are suggesting that God was encouraging the flesh to bring offerings to Him -- an absurd notion. 

 

The Christian's free will can be EITHER under the control of the Holy Spirit OR under the control of the flesh (Gal 5:16-25).  Christians can and do crucify the flesh and walk in the Spirit.  Other Christians can walk in the flesh.  But it is precisely because the will is free that Paul exhorts Christians thus: "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall NOT fulfil the lust of the flesh" (Gal 5:16 KJV).  If the will was not free to go in either direction, then Paul would not have made this statement.

 

So our free will is what we want to do:  (1) either under the control of God the Holy Spirit (new spiritual nature), or (2) under the control of our flesh (old sinful nature). That's Bible Truth, not some distortion of free will according to the doctrines of men.

 

[Guest]

Our flesh has a terrible habit of doing itself favors -

 

hence - ultimately the flesh won out in the Old Testament and the people rebelled against God.

 

They "free willed" right into reprobate minds.

 

~

 

I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.

 

God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.

 

Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel:

 

“Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars;

 

I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me” ?

 

And what was God’s answer to him?

 

I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”

 

So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

 

And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works;

 

if it were, grace would no longer be grace. Romans 11:1-6 (New International Version)

[Blue Moon]

 

"...can be and should be". Our flesh has a terrible habit of doing itself favors - hence - ultimately the flesh won out in the Old Testament and the people rebelled against God. They "free willed" right into reprobate minds.

 

 

 

It helps no one to go beyond Scripture, and indeed it can be very damaging to those who may be new in the faith.

 

 

So our free will is what we want to do:  (1) either under the control of God the Holy Spirit (new spiritual nature), or (2) under the control of our flesh (old sinful nature). That's Bible Truth, not some distortion of free will according to the doctrines of men.

 

100% Correct.

[mevosper]

Ezra said:
> It helps no one to go beyond Scripture, and indeed it can be very damaging to those who may be new in the faith.

It helps no one to hide the fact that they have been called by God to worship him and do his will.

 

 

Ezra said:

> Your attempt to equate free will with the flesh goes contrary to (and beyond) Scripture. I already quoted from Scripture where God says (Lev 1:2) "he shall offer it OF HIS OWN VOLUNTARY WILL". That was an offering to the LORD which was brought freely and exercising free will. Then I quoted "freewill offerings" also. You simply ignored Scripture, and are suggesting that God was encouraging the flesh to bring offerings to Him -- an absurd notion.
 

God was encouraging the flesh to bring offerings to him. At that time in the old testament, the laws were on physical tables. They had not been written in the hearts yet. One of the ideas of the old testament was to show the "weakness" of the physical/temporal.   

 

In your very next statement you put Christians under the control of either the flesh or the Spirit - which actually is my point. "Who's control is one under?" Christ even said "Not my will, but thine".

 

 "The Christian's free will can be EITHER under the control of the Holy Spirit OR under the control of the flesh (Gal 5:16-25). Christians can and do crucify the flesh and walk in the Spirit. Other Christians can walk in the flesh. But it is precisely because the will is free that Paul exhorts Christians thus: "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall NOT fulfil the lust of the flesh" (Gal 5:16 KJV). If the will was not free to go in either direction, then Paul would not have made this statement.
>
> So our free will is what we want to do: (1) either under the control of God the Holy Spirit (new spiritual nature), or (2) under the control of our flesh (old sinful nature). That's Bible Truth, not some distortion of free will according to the doctrines of men.

 

And once again you have finished with "...our free will is what we want to do...", which, again, is my point. Eve did what she wanted in the garden.  

As you quoted the flesh is against the nature of the spirit and the nature of the spirit is against the flesh. Unless there is a desire to do the will of God, we will not desire to do that which is of the Spirit willingly. This is what Paul is saying in Galatians.

There are two perspectives to view this from:

1. FresnoJoe brings up a great scripture to give us God's perspective:

"Yet I have left [me] seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him." 1 Ki 19:18.

God chose 7000 to not bow the knee to Baal. 

 

2. Then there is our perspective, which Christ brings to us in this passage: "[Mat 26:41 KJV] 41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak."

Ultimately... "not my will, but thine".

 

We either do the desires of the flesh, or we do the desires of the Holy Spirit. Because as you say, we are under the control of one of those "entities". And actually, I'm not disagreeing with you on this point. 

 

If it's God's will, it is not our will, free or otherwise. Conversely, if it is our will, it is not God's. Freewill to me seems like the exact thing that the serpent tempted Eve with. "Be free to choose for yourself. Never mind that God chose for you not to eat of the tree?" 

What is the problem with believing God has planned everything and controls all?

[hmbld]

[Guest]

 If it's God's will, it is not our will, free or otherwise. Conversely, if it is our will, it is not God's.

 

Freewill to me seems like the exact thing that the serpent tempted Eve with.

 

"Be free to choose for yourself. Never mind that God chose for you not to eat of the tree?" 

 

What is the problem with believing God has planned everything and controls all?

 

 

What Satan Used To Tempt Eve

 

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(a-c)

 

Was His Contempt For The Word Of God

 

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Genesis 3:4

 

And What The Word Of God Offers To The Children Of Eve

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

Is Faith In The Word Of The

 

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

 

WORD Of God

 

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

 

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

 

As I See It

 

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.

 

I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.

 

And let him that heareth say, Come.

 

And let him that is athirst come.

 

And whosoever will,

 

let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

 

Love, Your Brother Joe