ARE WE RIGHTEOUS?

[OneLight]

 

Why is it that because Jesus died for our sins, forgave those who repented, and created in us a new creation, that this has to mean we became perfect?  I have never understood this theology when scripture tells us that our flesh and the Spirit are in constant battle. Galatians 5 opens as Paul discusses the false teaching those in Galatia heard, causing some to question if they needed to be circumcised, living according to the law and not the Spirit. Paul then goes on talking about how we should walk in Love, which is the greatest of all. Paul ends speaking about walking in the Spirit, living for Him, which is in contradiction to living in the flesh. We read:

Hi Alan, with this theology, it is a difference in understanding of what the flesh is. I believe that the flesh isn't an internal nature, like a broken compass that always points the wrong direction. I believe it is the carnal mind. Before we come to the Lord, we have a mindset that is bent on sin and selfishness. We have a lifetime of thinking like the devil, we've accumulated habbits, memory muscles, and mindsets of an old man who is dead and gone.

When we come to the Lord, we are a new man, created in true righteousness and holiness, therefore we need to put off the old man.

Ephesians 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Before we came to the Lord, we have been cultivated by the enemy with a carnal mind.

Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

But now we have the Spirit, we no longer have to live according to the flesh.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

SO the unrenewed (Carnal) mind is the flesh that needs to be renewed.

Romans 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Our mind needs renewed to the reality of who we are in Him and who He is in us.

This was also the meaning of repentance when Jesus announced "Repent, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand"

The word repent in strongs is

μετανοέω

metanoeō

met-an-o-eh'-o

From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

Total KJV occurrences: 34

To repent means to change your way of thinking, when the way you think changes, so will your actions. With being born again, to repent means to turn from the old man and change your way of thinking to the reality  your a new creation in Christ. The Kingdom is righteousness, peace, and joy (Romans 14:17), is also not a matter of talk, but of power (1 Cor 4:20). We are a new creation and citizens right now of the Kingdom of heaven, we need our minds renewed to the reality of that.

The word repent in english I believe has caused much damage to the understanding of true repentance.

From WikI - Repentance is the activity of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs. It generally [citation needed] involves a commitment to personal change and resolving to live a more responsible and humane life.

Online Dictionary - the action of repenting; sincere regret or remorse.

Biblical Repentance means changing the way you think, embracing the new man and putting off the old, and turning away from sin rather than just feeling bad for it. Many view repentance as beating yourself up for the old man and sorrow and remorse for the past, and then say excuse sin because they believe it's just their nature.

 

 

 

Brother, I do understand what you are saying and agree that we do become a new creation in Christ, but, unlike you, I also know, for a fact, that if we are not careful, we can slip back in the flesh.  If this were not true, scripture would not be full of warnings about not continuing in Him, which are delivered to the believers, not the world.  Do what I did once.  Go through the NT and highlight every warning about returning to sin, the old man, the flesh, or neglecting biblical instructions and see how many times we are warned about it.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings One Light.....

    Oh Beloved Brother,Amen!!!! I too spent much time studying the Scriptures warning us to be very careful not to stray,to stand firm,to return to the old self and take heed not to fall into temptation ,.............the flesh is our hindrance,we must constantly stay in Gods Word,pray without ceasing etc.......stay right under our Heavenly Fathers wings,like little chicks,......

    Many years ago I could not get specific Scriptures out of my head"Many are called but few are chosen"(Matt22:14),"Enter through the narrow gate....."(Matt7:13-14)and most importantly    "IF you love me,,,,,,," (John 14:15).................it was then that I began growing in relationship with Our Father with a much better understanding of spiritual warfare,the flesh at war with the spirit and though I was living in Gods righteousness & indwelled with the Holy Spirit it did not mean that I was "foolproof" if not careful,,,,,,I am not talking about 'works" or anything that I should(or could) do by my own power except that I had to take captive every thought for the renewal of my mind ..............to relinquish "self" constantly by living in complete & full submission to Christs Lordship.

     I really do like your candid,honesty.................we do have responsibility & accountability..........& Glory to God ,we could never fulfill these things on our own ,,,,,,,Praise the Lord!                                                                                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

Oh & Shilohs post(#55),as Will mentioned ,,,is just beautiful!!!!!!

[wingnut-]

 

wait, wingnut.. are you saying Heaven accepts unclean things/persons?

 

 

No xy, I specifically said Satan, and as well you could include the fallen angels, all of which are tossed out of heaven in the future.  We see that in the passage below.

 

Revelation 12:⁷ Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, ⁸ but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. ⁹ And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. ¹⁰ And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.

 

We also see Satan do the same thing in the book of Job.  So what I was pointing out, is that Satan and the fallen angels still have access to heaven.  This is why the current heaven will also be done away with, what is to come will be untainted, forever.  God bless you.

[Joshua-777]

 

 

Why is it that because Jesus died for our sins, forgave those who repented, and created in us a new creation, that this has to mean we became perfect?  I have never understood this theology when scripture tells us that our flesh and the Spirit are in constant battle. Galatians 5 opens as Paul discusses the false teaching those in Galatia heard, causing some to question if they needed to be circumcised, living according to the law and not the Spirit. Paul then goes on talking about how we should walk in Love, which is the greatest of all. Paul ends speaking about walking in the Spirit, living for Him, which is in contradiction to living in the flesh. We read:

Hi Alan, with this theology, it is a difference in understanding of what the flesh is. I believe that the flesh isn't an internal nature, like a broken compass that always points the wrong direction. I believe it is the carnal mind. Before we come to the Lord, we have a mindset that is bent on sin and selfishness. We have a lifetime of thinking like the devil, we've accumulated habbits, memory muscles, and mindsets of an old man who is dead and gone.

When we come to the Lord, we are a new man, created in true righteousness and holiness, therefore we need to put off the old man.

Ephesians 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Before we came to the Lord, we have been cultivated by the enemy with a carnal mind.

Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

But now we have the Spirit, we no longer have to live according to the flesh.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

SO the unrenewed (Carnal) mind is the flesh that needs to be renewed.

Romans 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Our mind needs renewed to the reality of who we are in Him and who He is in us.

This was also the meaning of repentance when Jesus announced "Repent, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand"

The word repent in strongs is

μετανοέω

metanoeō

met-an-o-eh'-o

From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

Total KJV occurrences: 34

To repent means to change your way of thinking, when the way you think changes, so will your actions. With being born again, to repent means to turn from the old man and change your way of thinking to the reality  your a new creation in Christ. The Kingdom is righteousness, peace, and joy (Romans 14:17), is also not a matter of talk, but of power (1 Cor 4:20). We are a new creation and citizens right now of the Kingdom of heaven, we need our minds renewed to the reality of that.

The word repent in english I believe has caused much damage to the understanding of true repentance.

From WikI - Repentance is the activity of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs. It generally [citation needed] involves a commitment to personal change and resolving to live a more responsible and humane life.

Online Dictionary - the action of repenting; sincere regret or remorse.

Biblical Repentance means changing the way you think, embracing the new man and putting off the old, and turning away from sin rather than just feeling bad for it. Many view repentance as beating yourself up for the old man and sorrow and remorse for the past, and then say excuse sin because they believe it's just their nature.

 

 

 

Brother, I do understand what you are saying and agree that we do become a new creation in Christ, but, unlike you, I also know, for a fact, that if we are not careful, we can slip back in the flesh.  If this were not true, scripture would not be full of warnings about not continuing in Him, which are delivered to the believers, not the world.  Do what I did once.  Go through the NT and highlight every warning about returning to sin, the old man, the flesh, or neglecting biblical instructions and see how many times we are warned about it.

 

I totally agree with you we can slip back in the flesh if we are not grounded in Him. I believe all those warnings, the difference is that if we stumble in the flesh, we are acting out of character to who we are as opposed to, when we fall, that is who we naturally are because our nature is to sin.

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.

It says the word is our natural face, but when we are not a doer of the word, we forget who we are.

[Your closest friendnt]

Under the blood of Christ:

What does it mean?

The Jewish people were they under the blood?

What is the difference?

What about the Baptism of John?

Forgiveness of sins? No blood?

[HePaidForUs]

 

That doesn't contradict anything I said.   Rom. 5:21 is simply stating God's purpose in the ministry of Christ on the cross. He is not saying we are righteous at this moment in time.   That would contradict what he said in Rom. 4:23-25.   In Rom. 4 Paul states that just as righteousness was credited to Abraham on the basis of faith, it is credited to us as well.  That means that we are legally and declaratively righteous.  But we are not inherently or intrinsically righteous.   God has only made a legal declaration up to this point.   His purpose has not yet been fully accomplished but is set to be finished at a point in our future at the time when we receive the fullness of our inheritance.

 

If God says i am, then i am... i understand your point though, thanks so much... things are clearer to an extent now. thanks again.

 

 

That is the point On what grounds does God say you are righteous now? Faith in His Son. God's Blood covers all our sins RIGHT NOW. God's Blood cleanses us of sin NOW. His seed is in us. Sin creates separation from God. We are reconciled to God through Christ.

 

By our own falling short of the glory of God, we are sinners. With every temptation, God provided and still provides a way to escape (important to keep in mind RIGHT NOW, Christ is the author and perfecter of our faith!)

By God's righteousness, and the death and Resurrection of His Son, we are made His righteousness in Christ

 

We are saved by grace through faith.

 

We are not without sin.

 

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. 17Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. 18And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. James 5

 

If none are righteous, why does God's Word tell us the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much? 

 

Was Elijah a sinner? Was he subject to like passions as we are? Which of our hearts have been clean in the sight of God? Surely, not a one of us and not for a whole day at a time. He was righteous because of his faith in God. The God of peace. The one true God. Christ was God back then and He is still God right now.

[HePaidForUs]

I would quote your post 2 posts above mine but it is too long.

 

Something important to consider is that God's Blood does something nothing in this world can do. It takes away the conscience of sin. We no longer feel bad for our sins because of His righteousness and His Blood.

 

I remember so many nights of crying out to God because of my sins. Every time, He has been faithful to His Word and washed me clean. I no longer have a conscience of those sins because HE IS RIGHTEOUS and my life is in Him!

[xyluz]

This has been so helpful to me... 

 

lol... i am excited to learn from your comments..

 

Thank you all..