People are basically good, right?

[ytLiJC]

On 8/20/2015 at 2:07 AM, OldSchool2 said:

from First Things:

"People are basically good, right? It’s a truism drilled into us by any number of self-help books, magazines, talk-show hosts, and pop therapy. When, from time to time, people do terrible things to each other or themselves, we are assured that just the right combination of education, medication, and therapy could correct the ignorance, illness, or faulty social conditioning that led to the act. But do we really believe that to be true? Or do we recognize there is something more sinister at work in human nature?..."

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2008/09/sin-cinema

"To be truly wicked, C. S. Lewis said, one must have at least one virtue to make one great. However counterintuitive that notion might seem to be at first glance, Hollywood again gives us multiple examples that demonstrate its truth. Think about Saruman as played by Christopher Lee in The Lord of the Rings ... So driven is he to rid Middle Earth of Sauron ... that he becomes consumed by it. Through his courage, insight, and determination, Saruman becomes at once Sauron’s ally and rival as he succumbs to the power the Ring. Lewis’ friend J. R. R. Tolkien has it right: Studying the enemy’s methods too much will, whatever the original noble motivation, reproduce him in us...."

 

the One Who is really the true God could never afford to deliberately allow any person to be born sinful, because He is the system Administrator and Provider of life for the whole infinite universe, and His job, as such, is to provide every soul in the universe with abundant and eternal life without causing or allowing there to be stumbling blocks/complications as to the overall salvation and life's provision - it is another question why there have been so many evils with so many people, but one thing i can say for certain, namely that the true God is not guilty of any evil

however, what has caused there to be evil(s) in the world is the lawlessness/wickedness of wicked/evil humans, but first of all the ones who commit spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness - they are the people of sin and death

Blessings

Edited December 29, 2017 by ytLiJC

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

“ we are not sinners because we sin,we sin because we are sinners”

[Justin Adams]

People are basically DUMB. Period.

There is a spiritual war going on in the heavenlies and on earth. Us humans (largely) are pawns in a huge chess match. 

The angels that sinned brought much of our strife upon us. We chose very badly thinking WE had the power of self determinism. How DUMB.

Yeshua came to save us, the world, and to put to rights the atrocities that His fallen hosts had perpetuated upon His Creation. He is THE Redeemer in every sense of the word. The WORD.

Eventually, us pawns will make it to the back row of the opponent's ranks. There, Yahweh will make us into Kings and Priests. His Will is Good. He is Good. All the time!!

[vlad]

On 8/20/2015 at 2:07 AM, OldSchool2 said:

from First Things:

"People are basically good, right? It’s a truism drilled into us by any number of self-help books, magazines, talk-show hosts, and pop therapy. When, from time to time, people do terrible things to each other or themselves, we are assured that just the right combination of education, medication, and therapy could correct the ignorance, illness, or faulty social conditioning that led to the act. But do we really believe that to be true? Or do we recognize there is something more sinister at work in human nature?..."

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2008/09/sin-cinema

"To be truly wicked, C. S. Lewis said, one must have at least one virtue to make one great. However counterintuitive that notion might seem to be at first glance, Hollywood again gives us multiple examples that demonstrate its truth. Think about Saruman as played by Christopher Lee in The Lord of the Rings ... So driven is he to rid Middle Earth of Sauron ... that he becomes consumed by it. Through his courage, insight, and determination, Saruman becomes at once Sauron’s ally and rival as he succumbs to the power the Ring. Lewis’ friend J. R. R. Tolkien has it right: Studying the enemy’s methods too much will, whatever the original noble motivation, reproduce him in us...."

 

What is basically? When they are innocent babies, or grown up people? When I think about the grown-ups I recollect "No man without sin (1Ki. 8, 46).

[brakelite]

On 21/08/2015 at 3:33 AM, missmuffet said:

Being "good" is not going to get you to heaven.

Correct. But not being good keeps people out.

[Blood Bought 1953]

26 minutes ago, brakelite said:

Correct. But not being good keeps people out.

 

 

Unbelief is is the only thing that keeps one out.Faith alone is the only thing that gets you in.Most of the Bible was written by murderers.....all saved by their faith.

[brakelite]

19 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

 

Unbelief is is the only thing that keeps one out.Faith alone is the only thing that gets you in.Most of the Bible was written by murderers.....all saved by their faith.

They didn't stay murderers. See Revel. 21:8;22:15

[Blood Bought 1953]

19 minutes ago, brakelite said:

They didn't stay murderers. See Revel. 21:8;22:15

True.....but going from murderer to non- murderer did not save them. They were still sinners that needed a Savior.....what is “ good “ in man’s eye is filthy rags In the eyes of God....there is no one good,no not one.God is not in the business of saving good men to make them better....He is looking for dead men in order to make them alive.

[Billiards Ball]

On 8/19/2015 at 7:07 PM, OldSchool2 said:

from First Things:

"People are basically good, right? It’s a truism drilled into us by any number of self-help books, magazines, talk-show hosts, and pop therapy. When, from time to time, people do terrible things to each other or themselves, we are assured that just the right combination of education, medication, and therapy could correct the ignorance, illness, or faulty social conditioning that led to the act. But do we really believe that to be true? Or do we recognize there is something more sinister at work in human nature?..."

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2008/09/sin-cinema

"To be truly wicked, C. S. Lewis said, one must have at least one virtue to make one great. However counterintuitive that notion might seem to be at first glance, Hollywood again gives us multiple examples that demonstrate its truth. Think about Saruman as played by Christopher Lee in The Lord of the Rings ... So driven is he to rid Middle Earth of Sauron ... that he becomes consumed by it. Through his courage, insight, and determination, Saruman becomes at once Sauron’s ally and rival as he succumbs to the power the Ring. Lewis’ friend J. R. R. Tolkien has it right: Studying the enemy’s methods too much will, whatever the original noble motivation, reproduce him in us...."

 

I think a way that resonates with those I share with is this:

People are like Jekyll and Hyde, sometimes evil, sometimes good. However, since only morally perfect persons can be citizens of utopia, we must trust Christ to be changed for Heaven.

[zmmartin]

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2015 at 11:32 AM, FresnoJoe said:

~

Amen~!

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

there is no one who understands;

there is no one who seeks God.

All have turned away,

they have together become worthless;

there is no one who does good,

not even one.”

“Their throats are open graves;

their tongues practice deceit.”

“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”

“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.

“Their feet are swift to shed blood;

ruin and misery mark their ways,

and the way of peace they do not know.”

“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Romans 3:10-18 (New International Version)

Very good response.  I think that shows people are not basically good, but fallen with a sinful nature or totally depraved.  Every person born into the world is enslaved in sin.  As you referenced Romans 3:10-18, no one seeks, no one understands, and no one does what is good.