Where is the 3rd Heaven?

[other one]

Most of my friends think I'm nuts, but I'm really bothered by what they are doing at CERN.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 29 December, 2015 at 10:32 PM, Retrobyter said:

"Heaven." We sing songs about it; we quote Scripture about it, but I don't think we know the first thing about it in reality.

WHERE is "Heaven?" It IS knowable, according to the Scriptures!

WHAT is "Heaven?" Perhaps, that is the question that should be addressed first. I've bought several books about "Heaven," and they all basically come to the same conclusions. HOWEVER, if they really knew what "Heaven" is, I think they would change their minds!

Okay, let's start with the common rhetoric. Tell me what you currently believe about it. Then, let's explore some definitions and Scripture passages about it.

Where is 3rd heaven, It is self explanatory, it is above the second heaven, but I don't think so is within the same concept as in an apartment building.

Lets use an example,  someone in North America is pointing strait up to heaven, and can tell you with confidence,  "That's where Heaven is". At the same time, someone in the South hemisphere of the earth is pointing up, but this is the opposite direction, and is telling that's where heaven is, and so on. 

And so I have come to the conclusion, that Heaven is not within the earth. That eliminates one place. 

[Littlelambseativy]

The heavens which we see with the stars and planets are the 1st heaven. The 2nd heaven would be where the powers and principalities of the air (Satan and his angels) have dominion. The 3rd heaven is the abode of the Almighty God., where His throne and the throne of Jesus Who sits at God the Father!s right hand is.

This I believe is why Jesus will meet the Bride in the air and with the heavenly host escort her through the enemy's teritorry...the 2nd heaven.

[Ezra]

On 29/12/2015 at 4:43 PM, other one said:

Most of my friends think I'm nuts, but I'm really bothered by what they are doing at CERN.

CERN cannot throw any light on Heaven, or take anything away from our understanding of Heaven, since Heaven is outside their scope or their imaginations. 

[SINNERSAVED]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2015 at 3:43 PM, other one said:

Most of my friends think I'm nuts, but I'm really bothered by what they are doing at CERN.

 

I would be more concern, of how they are systematically removing God , out of our society,  this is here ,and the now.

 and no one is really picking up on it ,or fighting this,  so what do we do , ? this is the pre run , of how they can bring in the system of the beast with out resistance, . for we are being condition to except this , and we don't see the trap door ,coming up , that we are about to step on.

[Retrobyter]

Thank you all for your input.

And, that is why all of the books on "Heaven" I bought say the same thing: "1st heaven = of clouds, 2nd heaven = of stars, and 3rd heaven = God's abode."

I don't know where this concept originated, and I know that many of you would argue that it is to be found in the Scriptures, but I believe that there is a better explanation:

First, look at Yeshua`s own words in a response to the P'rushiym (Pharisees) and Tz'duqiym (Sadducees):

Here's the Greek:

Kata Maththaion 16:1-4
1 Kai proselthontes hoi Pharisaioi kai Saddoukaioi peirazontes epeerooteesan auton seemeion ek tou ouranou epideixai autois.
2 Ho de apokritheis eipen autois, "Opsias genomenees legete, 'Eudia,' purrazei gar ho ouranos;
3 kai prooi, 'Seemeron cheimoon,' purrazei gar stugnazoon ho ouranos. To men prosoopon tou ouranou ginooskete diakrinein, ta de seemeia toon kairoon ou dunasthe.
4 Genea poneera kai moichalis seemeion epizeetei, kai seemeion ou dotheesetai autee ei mee to seemeion Ioona." Kai katalipoon autous apeelthen.
UBS Greek New Testament

The meaning of the word "ouranos" according to Strong's Concordance is...

NT:3772 ouranos (oo-ran-os'); perhaps from the same as NT:3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specifically, the Gospel (Christianity):
KJV - air, heaven ([-ly]), sky.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

The declension of the word "ouranos" is as follows:

SINGULAR
Nominative: ho ouranos = the sky (subject)
Genitive: tou ouranou = of-the-sky
Ablative: tou ouranou = from-the-sky
Locative: too ouranoo = in-the-sky; at-the-sky
Instrumental: too ouranoo = with-the-sky; by-the-sky
Dative: too ouranoo = to-the-sky; for-the-sky
Accusative: ton ouranon = the-sky (direct object)
Vocative: ourane = O sky

PLURAL
Nominative: hoi ouranoi = the skies (subject)
Genitive: toon ouranoon = of-the-skies
Ablative: toon ouranoon = from-the-skies
Locative: tois ouranois = in-the-skies; at-the-skies
Instrumental: tois ouranois = with-the-skies; by-the-skies
Dative: tois ouranois = to-the-skies; for-the-skies
Accusative: tous ouranous = the skies (direct object)
Vocative: ouranoi = O skies

Thus, since the preposition "ek" always takes the ablative form, "ek tou ouranou" means "out from-the sky." So, we see two cases of the nominative form, a case of the ablative form, and a case of the genitive form in the first three verses of this passage.

1 Kai = 1 And/Also
proselthontes = came-near/approached
hoi = the
Pharisaioi = Pharisees/P'rushiym
kai = and/also
Saddoukaioi = Sadducees/Ts'duqiym
peirazontes = testing/scrutinizing
epeerooteesan = asked/demanded
auton = Him
seemeion = a-sign
ek = out
tou = from-the
ouranou = sky
epideixai = he-would-show/he-would-exhibit
autois. = to-them.
2 Ho = 2 The
de = but
apokritheis = concluded-for-Himself/answered
eipen = saying
autois, = to-them,
"Opsias = "At-evening/sundown
genomenees = when-it-is
legete, = you-(plural)-say,
'Eudia,' = 'Good-weather,'
purrazei = is-red
gar = for
ho = the
ouranos; = sky;
3 kai = 3 and/also
prooi, = at-morning/sunrise
'Seemeron = 'Today
cheimoon,' = stormy-weather,'
purrazei = is-red
gar = for
stugnazoon = gloomy/overcast
ho = the
ouranos. = sky.
To = The
men = indeed
prosoopon = face
tou = of-the
ouranou = sky
ginooskete = you-(plural)-know
diakrinein, = to-discriminate,
ta = the
de = but
seemeia = signs
toon = of-the
kairoon = times
ou = not
dunasthe. = you-(plural)-can.
4 Genea = 4 A-generation
poneera = wicked
kai = and/also
moichalis = an-adulteress
seemeion = a-sign
epizeetei, = seeks,
kai = and/also
seemeion = a-sign
ou = not
dotheesetai = shall-be-given
autee = to-it
ei = if
mee = not
to =the
seemeion = sign
Ioona." = of-Yonah/of-Jonah."
Kai = And/Also
katalipoon = having-left
autous = them
apeelthen. = he-departed.

Now, let's look at the KJV:

Matthew 16:1-4
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
KJV

Let's look at the NIV:

Matthew 16:1-4
1 The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven. 

2 He replied, "When evening comes, you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,' 3 and in the morning, 'Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. 4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.
NIV

We could keep looking at various English versions of this passage, and we will continue to see the same oddity! Why is it that almost every English version of this passage (with very few exceptions), uses the word "heaven" in verse 1 and the word "sky" in verses 2 and 3? This has NOTHING to do with the Greek word being translated and EVERYTHING to do with the whim of the translators! I didn't even know this fact! I was never taught this fact! I had to stumble upon it while studying my Greek New Testament!

Think about it: If I hadn't just revealed this fact to you, would you have been able to tell that the word "heaven" in verse 1 is the SAME GREEK WORD as "sky" in verses 2 and 3? Probably not, unless you have studied biblical Greek!

Yeshua` (Jesus) was using their own "request" (DEMAND) against them! They asked for a sign from the sky, and He gave them weather wisdom (which they already knew)! "There you go!" He didn't give them a sign from "3rd heaven = God's abode"; He gave them a sign from the "1st heaven = of clouds!" He CORRECTED them about what "ouranos" means!

-------

Now, go to 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 and allow Yeshua`s correction to fill your hearts and minds:

2 Corinthians 12:1-4
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
KJV

First, let's correct the words "caught up." The SINGLE word being used in both verses 2 and 4 is a form of "harpazoo" (pronounced "har-PAHD-zo"):

NT:726 harpazoo (har-pad'-zo); from a derivative of NT:138; to sieze (in various applications):
KJV - catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Do you see anything in that definition to the direction of "up?" NO! IT'S NOT THERE! If you look at the Greek of these verses, you won't find a single word that even IMPLIES "up!"

We have JUMPED TO THE CONCLUSION that "third heaven" must be a "spatially third heaven"; that is, as Ezra said, "It is above and beyond outer space...." But, there's a better explanation:

Kefa ("Cephas" or Peter) said,

FIRST HEAVEN OR SKY (AND EARTH):

2 Peter 3:3-13
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Genesis 1:6-8
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
KJV

FLOOD OF NOACH:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Genesis 7:17-22
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
KJV

SECOND HEAVEN OR SKY (AND EARTH):

7a But the heavens and the earth, which are now, ...

FIRE OF GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT:

7b ...by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Revelation 20:9-15
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

THIRD HEAVEN OR SKY (AND EARTH):

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

Revelation 21:1-3
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
KJV

It's NOT three "heavens" spatially; it's THREE SKIES CHRONOLOGICALLY! There's no such thing as a "3rd heaven = God's abode!" It was a first sky before the Flood, a second sky right now between the Flood and the Fire to come, and a third sky after the Fire to come! So, Paul was not "caught up" to a third heaven; he was "snatched away" to a third sky! HE SAW THE FUTURE (as any prophet would)! And, all three "skies" include both the clouds and birds that we see in the sunlight of the sky during the day and the starlight and moonlight that we see at night!

All descriptions of "Heaven" are actually descriptions of the NEW JERUSALEM! That's where the thrones of God and of the Lamb exist! That's where the park (Hebrew: pardeec; Greek: paradeisos; English: paradise) of God exists! That's where the "many rooms/mansions" that Yeshua` went to prepare exist! That's where the streets of gold exist! That's where the pearly gates exist! That's where the foundations exist!

More later...

[WilliamL]

The words for heaven in both the Hebrew OT and Greek NT are used interchangeably for both spiritual and earthly "places." Only context determines the meaning.

I'll stick with the Hebraic teachings of old, which state that the three upper worlds are what we would call graded states of consciousness. The greater one's attained level of consciousness/holiness, the closer one may approach the Holy One.

In our own realm we have a type of these things. Solid matter is at the lowest energy level. Heat it up, and you get fluids. Heat them up and you get gases. Heat them up and you get fire/light. Yet as the physicists tell us, all of these things are made up of various states of energy: E = mc². Mass/physical matter is just condensed waves of energy, chasing their tails.

Those who will be taken up in the Rapture will have their physical bodies transmuted into a higher energy state, just as Jesus after his resurrection. ...we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2

The highest level of the "spiritual heavens" is that which can exist in the greatest degree of Divine Light.

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, inchrist said:

But he did give them a sign from the third heaven. Jesus said that there would be one further sign forthcoming, the sign of Jonah, which was His resurrection from the dead. This would be their final opportunity to be convinced.

 

You have abviously interpreted the "waters above the firmament" as a theoretical "water canopy" which once surrounded the Earth but no longer exists. Citing this as your source for the waters of Noah's flood. This is incorrect.

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."
(Genesis 1:14-16 KJV)

Notice the Sun, Moon, and Stars are "in" the firmament. Therefore logic dictates those waters that are "above the firmament" must be above the Sun, Moon and Stars. That means these waters are above the visible cosmos.

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament : and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."
(Genesis 1:6-8 KJV)

This is backed up by the following scriptures

Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens."
(Psalms 148:4 KJV)

And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind."
(Revelation 4:6 KJV)

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."
(Revelation 21:1 KJV)

And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above."
(Ezekiel 1:22 KJV)  

"The waters are hid as [with] a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen."
(Job 38:30 KJV)

"And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness."
(Exodus 24:10 KJV)

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."

(Revelation 15:2 KJV)

Further to this the design of the temple or tabernacle confirms the designs of all things. 

For exanple, the Altar where the sacrifices were made represents where the Lamb of God was sacrificed. It represents the world that is below (the Earth & the first and second heavens). 

Notice what seperates the courtyard from the holy place and holy of holies.....The Molten Sea.

The Molten Sea is between those two lower heavens and the "Third Heaven" where the true Temple of God is located.

Shalom, InChrist.

First, you QUOTED Genesis 1:14-16 and then said, 'Notice the Sun, Moon, and Stars are "in" the firmament. Therefore logic dictates those waters that are "above the firmament" must be above the Sun, Moon and Stars. That means these waters are above the visible cosmos.' Sorry, brother, but that's not true. The thing you are ignoring in the verses is that these are LIGHTS that are created in the firmament, not the objects themselves! Hebrew has names for the "sun" and "moon." They are "shemesh" (or "hashemesh" with the definite article attached) and "yaareeach" (or "hayaareeach" with the definite article). So, if God was creating the objects themselves, why wouldn't He use the names themselves? No, He created the RADIATING ENERGY already en route to earth!

LOL! Do you really think that God would create the moon and wait a half a minute for the light to get to earth? Would God create the sun and wait 8-1/3 minutes for light to get to earth? Would God create the "Dog Star" Sirius and wait over 4 YEARS for light to get to earth? And, that is the CLOSEST star to earth, other than our sun! NO! He was talking about creating the LIGHT ITSELF within our atmosphere FIRST, and THEN "he created the stars (hakowkaaViym = the-round-objects) also!"

The water vapor above merely had to be above our atmosphere - our expanse (Hebrew: raaqiya' = "firmament") of gases! You simply MUST come to the realization that the account of the Creation is mostly about the creation of our BIOSPHERE, not so much the whole UNIVERSE!

Remember: Theirs was an agrarian society! They were interested in their ground, in their land, and in their weather for the growing of livestock and produce!

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

The words for heaven in both the Hebrew OT and Greek NT are used interchangeably for both spiritual and earthly "places." Only context determines the meaning.

I'll stick with the Hebraic teachings of old, which state that the three upper worlds are what we would call graded states of consciousness. The greater one's attained level of consciousness/holiness, the closer one may approach the Holy One.

In our own realm we have a type of these things. Solid matter is at the lowest energy level. Heat it up, and you get fluids. Heat them up and you get gases. Heat them up and you get fire/light. Yet as the physicists tell us, all of these things are made up of various states of energy: E = mc². Mass/physical matter is just condensed waves of energy, chasing their tails.

Those who will be taken up in the Rapture will have their physical bodies transmuted into a higher energy state, just as Jesus after his resurrection. ...we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2

The highest level of the "spiritual heavens" is that which can exist in the greatest degree of Divine Light.

Shalom, WilliamL.

That doesn't explain it, bro'.  Drop the "spiritual" nonsense. If you let the Hebrew word "hashaamayim" be "the skies," and the Greek word "ouranos" be the "sky,"  the plural "ouranoi" be the "skies," it satisfies ALL of the verses that use those words! One does NOT have to go looking for some "place" outside of our own biosphere!

"Let God be true and EVERY man," even every one of the Hebraic teachers, "a liar!" Besides, when talking about "graded states of consciousness," you've obviously wandered off into Kabbalistic teaching, the later mystical teaching of the Rabbis!

In your understanding of "physics" and physical properties, such as temperature and states of matter, you've made some glaring errors. While it is true that more energy added to a substance will change it from the solid state to the liquid state and then to the gaseous state, more energy added would change it to the state of plasma. All four of these states of matter are still MATTER, not energy! Even when the atoms have so much energy that they fly apart into electrons and nuclei (beta rays and alpha particles), they are always going to be MATTER! You are talking about the "excitement" of matter by the capture of a photon.

It takes an actual nuclear reaction to change matter into energy, which is what you're suggesting with the basic formula of special relativity, Einstein's equation, "E = mc²." This is an INSTANTANEOUS change from matter to energy, and to this date, it is a ONE-WAY trip! We've never been able to produce matter from energy (matter --> energy, not matter <--> energy), although theoretically it should be possible. The equation shows the relationship between the mass of the matter lost to the amount of energy produced in its place. This is why too many of these instantaneous changes from matter to energy at the same time is so devastating! To control the number of changes and the timing of the changes, we have absorption rods - carbon rods that will limit the number of bombarding particles (that trigger nuclear reactions) produced at any one time.

Your statement, "Mass/physical matter is just condensed waves of energy, chasing their tails," is not accurate. That is one THEORY of how matter and energy are related. To this date, a unified field theory has not yet been established.

Yeshua` (Jesus), after His resurrection, became a PHYSICAL BODY! He may have been super-strong and He had properties that were in control by Him, but He was physical enough to eat and be touched!

Luke 24:33-43
33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
KJV

[Retrobyter]

2 minutes ago, inchrist said:

That's correct I cited Gen 1:14-16, if God had to use the specific names then what are these objects? 

Genesis 1:16

God made two great lights --the greater light to govern the day and the lesser  light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

As you can see they were made in the firmament Gen 1:14

 

You face three challenges

1. God is outside of time

2. Physicist are claiming that the Speed of light is slowing down after all

3. The entropy laws reveal a universe which is "winding down." It had to have been initially "wound-up."

 

Shalom, InChrist.

They are not "objects!" They are LIGHTS! ENERGY! Here's Genesis 1:16 in Hebrew:

B-reeshiyt 1:16
16 Vaya`as Elohiym et shneey ham'orot hadgoliym et hamaa'owr hagaadol l-memshelet hayowm v'et hamaa'owr haqaaTon l-memshelet halaylaah v'eet hakowkhaaViym:
JPS Hebrew-English TANAKH

16 Vaya`as = 16 And-made
Elohiym = God
et = (next noun is a direct object)
shneey = two
ham'orot = the-lights
hadgoliym = the-greater (plural)
et = (next noun is a direct object)
hamaa'owr = the-light
hagaadol = the-greater
l-memshelet = to-govern
hayowm = the-day
v'et = and-(next noun is a direct object)
hamaa'owr = the-light
haqaaTon = the-lesser
l-memshelet = to-govern
halaylaah = the-night
v'eet = and-(next noun is a direct object)
hakowkhaaViym: = the-round-objects [stars]:

He didn't make the "sun" (Hebrew: "shemesh") and the "moon!" (Hebrew: "yaareeach")! He made the two great "LIGHTS" (Hebrew: "ham'orot")!

And, NONE of those "challenges" have anything to do with the Creation account!

First of all, we've never known a universe without time. So what if "God is outside of time?" HE made our Universe to run WITH TIME! The space-mass-time continuum says that speed and distance are directly related to the existence of time! Without time, we have no way to measure the size of our Universe! You can't DO anything without TIME!

Second, SOME physicists (Australian physicists) are making such a claim, but it is based on an observation by John Webb that a quasar is absorbing the wrong kind of photonic energy (according to their theory of evolution and the huge amounts of time for which that theory allows), and actually, they propose that either the electron charge has changed or the speed of light has changed, based on that observation. IT'S ALL THEORETICAL! And, this is light from the quasar that is supposed to be 12 BILLION LIGHT-YEARS away from earth! However, if God created the lights first....

Third, the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the Law of Entropy, is a direct result of the Curse, which in turn is a direct result of SIN! Sin was added to Creation AFTER the fact in the Fall of Adam and Chavah (Eve). In a future without sin and the curse removed, what will happen to this "Law?" The fact that the "universe is running down" is called a "heat death"; that is, all of the universe's energy is becoming more chaotic and at lower levels, tending toward the infrared, "heat." However, this, too, is based on this Law of Entropy! What happens should God repeal this "Law?"