Is the doctrine of the Trinity biblical?

[other one]

3 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

I didn't see this before.

This simply is not true.

 

 

Ex 24:9-11

9 Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11 Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they beheld God, and they ate and drank.
NASB

John 6:45-47
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught of God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 "Not that any man has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.
NASB

 

I think I am tired of your nonsense Weed.....    I'll not be responding to your nonsense any longer.

[Spock]

46 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

I don't private message men.

I don't blame you, sister.  Men can be ravenous wolves in sheep a clothing.  I prefer to private message women myself. Much more trustworthy if you ask me. 

Spock

[Spock]

41 minutes ago, Shar said:

I get you.  I am a female and I understand your preference not to do so.

Women bonding at Worthy!  What a beautiful thing to behold. Thanks for modeling this spirit of love to us men, ladies. 

An admiring Spock

[Shar]

2 minutes ago, Spock said:

I don't blame you, sister.  Men can be ravenous wolves in sheep a clothing.  I prefer to private message women myself. Much more trustworthy if you ask me. 

Spock

Very funny, Spock.  You are a man.  Ravenous wolf?  LOL

[Reinitin]

49 minutes ago, Shar said:

I get you.  I am a female and I understand your preference not to do so.

LOL I thought you were a man:)

[Omegaman 3.0]

Also, Spock, Shar, Reinitin, you can always respond directly, by name to a person(s), without private messaging, to let the rest of us know that you are addressing specific individuals, not necessarily everyone in the thread. However, if you post in a public forum, you need to expect that at times, anyone can respond.

[Omegaman 3.0]

5 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

LOL I thought you were a man:)

Perhaps because she had difficulty finding an image of a female Rabbi, that threw you off a bit.

[Shar]

2 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

LOL I thought you were a man:)

LOL.  I can see why you did not want to private message me.  Glad to say, I am very female.  Thanks.  You made me laugh, and my husband too.   

[Shar]

2 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Perhaps because she had difficulty finding an image of a female Rabbi, that threw you off a bit.

Now, I understand that little sarcasm avatar you post so proudly on your replies.  

[thereselittleflower]

58 minutes ago, other one said:

Ex 24:9-11

9 Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11 Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they beheld God, and they ate and drank.
NASB

John 6:45-47
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught of God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 "Not that any man has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.
NASB

 

I think I am tired of your nonsense Weed.....    I'll not be responding to your nonsense any longer.

Getting a little personal there huh?  lol

So

• Quote

  YHWH can not be the Father.   YHWH is what Jesus was before he was flesh and blood.       Moses, Aaron and 72 other people went up and saw the God of Israel which is YHWH, but Jesus tells us very plainly that no one has at any time ever seen the Father except him who came from the Father.     So it is very plain that the YHWH can not be the Father or scripture is broken.

   

  Several of you have made this mistake over the past two months and you should stop doing so.....

   

To say God the Father is not the God if Israel is taking a passage in the scriptures to an extreme, and to enter into error because of an interpretative spin you've put on this passage.

So what did John actually say?

• Jhn 6:46

  Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

 

The word "see" is

 

• †ὁράω horáō, hor-ah'-o; properly, to stare at (compare G3700), i.e. (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear:—behold, perceive, see, take heed.

  1. to see with the eyes

  2. to see with the mind, to perceive, know

  3. to see, i.e. become acquainted with by experience, to experience

  4. to see, to look to

     1. to take heed, beware

     2. to care for, pay heed to

  5. I was seen, showed myself, appeared

   

So we see, there is nothing in the word itself that mandates we  understand it can only be understood as physically seeing.  The word here does not only refer to what is seen with the eyes, but also what is seen with the mind, what is perceived, what is known, to become acquainted with by experience.

It is used as a Hebraism to mean "to experience."

A Hebraism is

• He·bra·ism
  ˈhēbrāˌizəm/

  noun

   

  1. 1.

     a Hebrew idiom or expression.

So this verse is simply being used as a prooftext without regard to how else it might be understood.  Why?Christianity has always taught God the Father is the God of Israel; Christianity has never made such a distinction as you have tried to force on these words of John here.

 

• Thayer's Expanded Definition  ό᾿πτω, see ὁράω.

  2. to see with the mind, to perceive, know: absolutely, Romans 15:21; τινα followed by a participle in the accusative ( Buttmann, § 144,15b.; Winer's Grammar, § 45,4), Acts 8:23; τί, Colossians 2:18; with a participle added, Hebrews 2:8; followed by ὅτι, James 2:24; to look at or upon, observe, give attention to: εἰς τινα, John 19:37 ( Sophocles El. 925; Xenophon, Cyril 4,1, 20; εἰς τί, Solon in (Diogenes Laërtius 1,52); ἑωρακέναι παρά τῷ πατρί, to have learned from (see παρά, II. b.) the father (a metaphorical expression borrowed from sons, who learn what they see their fathers doing),John 8:38 (twice in Rec.; once in L T Tr WH); Christ is said to deliver to men ἅ ἑώρακεν, the things which he has seen, i. e. which he learned in his heavenly state with God before the incarnation, i. e. things divine, the counsels of God, John 3:11,32; ἑωρακέναι Θεόν, to know God's will, 3 John 1:11; from the contact and influence of Christ to have come to see (know) God's majesty, saving purposes, and will (cf. Winer's Grammar, 273 (257)), John 14:7,9; in an emphatic sense, of Christ, who has an immediate and perfect knowledge of God without being taught by another, John 1:18; John 6:46;ὄψεσθαί Θεόν καθώς ἐστιν, of the knowledge of God that may be looked for in his future kingdom, 1 John 3:2; ὄψεσθαί Christ, is used in reference to the apostles, about to perceive his invisible presence among them by his influence upon their souls through the Holy Spirit, John 16:16,19; Christ is said ὄψεσθαί the apostles, i. e. will have knowledge of them, ibid. 22.

 

So grammatically this is the correct definition of the word used here in this verse - to see WITH THE MIND - TO PERCEIVE, KNOW ABSOLUTELY.

And so there is no contradiction between what John said and what Moses et al saw with their eyes.    

Nothing here supports your claim that God the Father is not the God of Israel, that YHWH can not be the Father.   YHWH is what Jesus was before he was flesh and blood.  

This claim is false as I said before.

 

Additionally here are some commentaries to help:

 

• Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
  
  46. Not that any man hath seen, etc.—Lest they should confound that "hearing and learning of the Father," to which believers are admitted by divine teaching, with His own immediate access to Him, He here throws in a parenthetical explanation; stating, as explicitly as words could do it, how totally different the two cases were, and that only He who is "from God" hath this naked, immediate access to the Father. (See Joh 1:18).

   

  Barnes' Notes on the Bible

  Not that any man hath seen the Father - Jesus added this, evidently, to guard against mistake. He had said that all who came to him were taught of God. The teacher was commonly seen and heard by the pupil; but, lest it should be supposed that he meant to say that a man to come to him must see and hear God, visibly and audibly, he adds that he did not intend to affirm this. It was still true that no man had seen God at any time. They were not, therefore, to expect to see God, and his words were not to be perverted as if he meant to teach that.

  Save he which is of God - Jesus here evidently refers to himself as the Son of God. He had just said that no man had seen the Father. When he affirms that he has seen the Father, it implies that he is more than man. He is the only-begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, John 1:18; the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, Hebrews 1:3; God over all, blessed forever, Romans 9:5. By his being of God is meant that he is the only-begotten Son of God, and sent as the Messiah into the world.

  Hath seen - Hath intimately known or perceived him. He knows his nature, character, plans. This is a claim to knowledge superior to what man possesses, and it cannot be understood except by supposing that Jesus is equal with God.

   

  Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

  Not that any man hath seen the Father,.... This is said, lest it should be thought from the above words, that our Lord meant that men should be so taught of God, as that they should visibly see the Father, and vocally hear his voice, and be personally instructed by him; for his voice is not heard, nor his shape seen; see John 1:18;

  save he which is of God; who is begotten of him, and of the same nature and perfections with him, though a distinct person from him, and who was always with him, and lay in his bosom:

  he hath seen the Father; has perfect knowledge of him, personal communion with him; has seen the perfections and glory of his person, and the thoughts, purposes, and counsels of his heart, his whole mind, and will, and all the grace, goodness, and mercy which is in him, and has declared it; see John 1:18.