What is the "First Resurrection" in your view?

[Malcomx]

 

Can we ask this questions also, why the Jewish of Israel confused and did not see the son of God, and even when the the son of God perform miracles,why they did not see and believe him, or why they never went back to bible to find out and confirm with what Jesus was saying (when he say he is the son of God). 

Now the world say they know better. So who will learn the new things??? 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Malcomx

[Malcomx]

Can we ask ourselves "why am I having many questions? And why I do not understand some of things in the Bible? "

Edited April 20, 2017 by Malcomx

[No124get1952]

Rather than dive deeply into Scriptural interpretation, I am going to go back to my basic Christian training. In general, the first death is physical death and the second death is a negative result at the Great White Throne judgment where failure leads to eternal separation from God in the Lake of Fire.

Now, we go to resurrection. Jesus was the first person resurrected that stayed that way, so when we speak of the first resurrection, we are speaking of an event where those who are dead in Christ, come alive and stay that way. If you believe in the rapture, then the first resurrection occurs at the rapture where all the dead in Christ arise and go to be with Jesus. If you do not believe in the Rapture of the Church, then the first resurrection occurs just before the final Great Throne judgment where EVERYONE stands judgment. Thus, if you don't believe in the rapture, you generally don't believe in a second resurrection because God resurrects everybody before the final judgment.

However, if you do believe in the Rapture, the second resurrection occurs after the Millenial reign of Jesus Christ on the earth, again when everyone is resurrected for the final judgment day.

 

The real bottom line here is that each of us should be living our salvation out daily so that we have no worry about our eternal destination or the outcome of the judgment. Having trusted in Christ, we have an Eternal advocate with the Father, even Jesus Christ the righteous.....Yaaaaay!!!!

[Sister]

On 17/04/2017 at 8:43 PM, BobRyan said:

What is "the first resurrection"? Is it when the "dead in Christ rise first"? Is it the resurrection of the "blessed and holy"? the saints? All of them? or just some of them? What is your view?

It appears to me that the "dead in Christ rise first" because they are in the "first resurrection" and over these the 2nd death has no power at all.

 

Almost all Christian groups agree that Revelation 19 describes the 2nd coming - and that there were no chapter divisions in the Greek text of Revelation as written by John. Revelation 20 starts off then in the context of Revaltion 19 - at the 2nd coming.

(Sorry -- I still don't know how to change the text format to get rid of the double spacing in the Bible quote below)

Revelation 20

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

⁶ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

⁷ And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 

Those included in the "first resurrection"

a. Those who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God

b. And those which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

So certainly in the case above - the "First resurrection" includes the saints - possibly "all of the saints" in all of time depending on how far back one finds the "beast" to have had influence and to have persecuted the saints -- since it appears that the second death has power over all who are raised 1000 years later in the second resurrection 

Here is what Paul says about it... the saints do rise first.

1 Thess 4

¹³ But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.¹⁴ For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. ¹⁵ For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. ¹⁸ Therefore comfort one another with these words. 

 

Your thoughts?

 

in Christ,

 

Bob

Hi Bob

I think you've got the gist of it.

The first resurrection is at Christ's return.  It includes "all generations" who worshiped Christ.  From those back then, the very first Christians, to the last generation who were also martyred.

Those who were born before Christ cannot part-take in that same resurrection, not because they did anything wrong, but because they have to go through the Lamb first before they can inherit the kingdom of God.

During the millennium, only the Jews will be brought back in the flesh (most from the dead) to dwell in holy Jerusalem, not the gentiles.  The Jews will learn Christ and will multiply for a thousand years.  When that 1000 yrs is up, the Jews who multiplied during the millennium will take part in the 2nd resurrection.  They all will be saved and will be "changed" to spirit.

Also during the millennium, there will be remnants of the gentiles left over who survived the 2nd coming.  They will multiply during the 1000 yrs also.

In that 2nd resurrection after the 1000 yrs, all the gentiles since the beginning of time, and the rest who did not make it in the first resurrection will be judged.  This judgement is different, and they will be judged by the books (Judged on their works).  The goats to the left and the sheep to the right. 

I guess it makes sense also that all those future generations who will be born through the millennium, having Christ preached to them and who converted will not be judged on their works, but will have their names written in the Lamb's book of life.  Those who remained "uncircumsized" in the spirit will be judged by their works, a much tougher judgement.

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2017 by Sister

[angels4u]

2 hours ago, eileenhat said:

The truth comes directly from access to God.  

Hi Eileen,

You  do mean the truth comes from  Gods Word ? 

How do you explain direct access to God?

Through prayer?

[BobRyan]

On 4/20/2017 at 10:11 AM, Sister said:

Hi Bob

I think you've got the gist of it.

The first resurrection is at Christ's return.  It includes "all generations" who worshiped Christ.  From those back then, the very first Christians, to the last generation who were also martyred.

Those who were born before Christ cannot part-take in that same resurrection, not because they did anything wrong, but because they have to go through the Lamb first before they can inherit the kingdom of God.

During the millennium, only the Jews will be brought back in the flesh (most from the dead) to dwell in holy Jerusalem, not the gentiles.  The Jews will learn Christ and will multiply for a thousand years.  When that 1000 yrs is up, the Jews who multiplied during the millennium will take part in the 2nd resurrection.  They all will be saved and will be "changed" to spirit.

Also during the millennium, there will be remnants of the gentiles left over who survived the 2nd coming.  They will multiply during the 1000 yrs also.

In that 2nd resurrection after the 1000 yrs, all the gentiles since the beginning of time, and the rest who did not make it in the first resurrection will be judged.  This judgement is different, and they will be judged by the books (Judged on their works).  The goats to the left and the sheep to the right. 

I guess it makes sense also that all those future generations who will be born through the millennium, having Christ preached to them and who converted will not be judged on their works, but will have their names written in the Lamb's book of life.  Those who remained "uncircumsized" in the spirit will be judged by their works, a much tougher judgement.

 

 

 

This is a great post. But I would like you to consider a few interesting details about the Gospel in the OT.

 

1. Gal 1:6-9 -- there is only One Gospel

2. Gal 3:8  -- That Gospel was preached to Abraham

3. Hebrews 4:2 "WE have had the Gospel preached unto us - just as THEY also".

4. "They all drank from the same Spiritual Rock -... and that Rock was Christ" 1 Cor 10:4

5. john 8:56 "Abraham rejoiced to see My day - and he saw it.. and he was glad"

6. All the saints who were taken to heaven without dying - are saints in the OT. (Elijah and Enoch)

7. Moses and Elijah stand "with Christ" in Matthew 17 - before the cross even happens.

8.  Job 19:25 As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.

9 Noah pursues "Righteousness which is by faith" Hebrews 11

 

All the saints held up as examples before the NT saints - are the OT saints in Hebrews 11

10. John 3 - Christ argues that any teacher in Israel - who knows the Bible - should already know about the Holy Spirit and the new birth

Edited April 21, 2017 by BobRyan

[BobRyan]

11 hours ago, OneLight said:

When two people have the same access, but walk away with different understanding, which is true? 

Acts 17:11 two sides come together - study the Bible come to the same conclusion even though it goes against all their orthodoxy and tradition.

[OneLight]

25 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

Acts 17:11 two sides come together - study the Bible come to the same conclusion even though it goes against all their orthodoxy and tradition.

I already know the answer.  The flesh finds its way into peoples theology easily.

[Sister]

4 hours ago, BobRyan said:

This is a great post. But I would like you to consider a few interesting details about the Gospel in the OT.

 

1. Gal 1:6-9 -- there is only One Gospel

2. Gal 3:8  -- That Gospel was preached to Abraham

3. Hebrews WE have had the Gospel preached unto us - just as THEY also.

4. "They all drank from the same Spiritual Rock -... and that Rock was Christ" 1 Cor 10:4

5. john 8:56 "Abraham rejoiced to see My day - and he saw it.. and he was glad"

6. All the saints who were taken to heaven without dying - are saints in the OT. (Elijah and Enoch)

7. Moses and Elijah stand "with Christ" in Matthew 17 - before the cross even happens.

8.  Job 19:25 As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.

9 Noah pursues "Righteousness which is by faith" Hebrews 11

 

All the saints held up as examples before the NT saints - are the OT saints in Hebrews 11

10. John 3 - Christ argues that any teacher in Israel - who knows the Bible - should already know about the Holy Spirit and the new birth

Hi Bob

From the scriptures, it is clear that Israel will be brought back into the kingdom on earth in the flesh, and that Christ and the resurrected saints will rule over them and teach them.

And for years, I have been considering whether Abraham will be resurrected as a "saint", or will come back in "the flesh" into the kingdom of God.  Either way he still receives the promise.

Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, and even others before them such as Job, Enoch & Noah all had faith, and being without the law back then, possessed righteousness in their daily walk by having no association with evil of any kind, under God's guidance.  And yes, they all knew of Christ to come, not in their day, but in the days coming, and Abraham even met "The Word of God" personally (Melchisedek).  But none of these ever suffered for "Christ's sake".  The man that was sent from God, his only begotten Son, whom Israel and the world hated even until this day.  This is another thing not experienced by them in their day.

Acts 9:16   For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Please consider what Job wrote;

Job 19:26   And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet "in my flesh" shall I see God:

 

I see it like this, when the kingdom of God is set up on this earth, all the blessed of the past like Abraham, Jacob, etc, even the 12 patriarchs will take the high positions again, instructing Israel;

 Isaiah 1:26   And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.

Who better to reinstall in the kingdom than the original Fathers, who were chosen to lead.

 

[Sister]

8 hours ago, BobRyan said:

This is a great post. But I would like you to consider a few interesting details about the Gospel in the OT.

Hi Bob

Even though I have explained my position already, I thought I'd better address these questions to show you that I am listening.

8 hours ago, BobRyan said:

1. Gal 1:6-9 -- there is only One Gospel

 

 Galatians 1:6   I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
 Galatians 1:7   Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 Galatians 1:8   But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 Galatians 1:9   As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Yes, only one Gospel, given to us by Jesus and his apostles.  Was not given to us through any OT saints, nor even Abraham.

8 hours ago, BobRyan said:

2. Gal 3:8  -- That Gospel was preached to Abraham

Galatians 3:6   Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Galatians 3:7   Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

(Because of Abraham's faith, he is a child of God.  God spoke to him and he obeyed, fully trusting him.  If we follow in Abraham's footsteps, having that same "faith", then we become Abraham's children, according to the promise, ....becoming the same as the Children of God)

Galatians 3:8   And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

(It depends on how you read it.  I had to read it again a few times;

Did God preach before.....the gospel unto Abraham?

or

Did God preach before the gospel came to us.... unto Abraham ......"saying In thee shall all nations be blessed" ?

We can't verify God preaching the gospel unto Abraham, but we can verify that he said "In thee shall all nations be blessed", which isn't exactly the preaching of the gospel, but nevertheless a truth concerning Abraham's seed who would be scattered throughout the whole earth, and follow in that same "faith" he had.