Oneness claims that John 14:10 states that Jesus is God the Father

[OneLight]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Thank you, then when you read the events that happened in Egypt, at the time of Moses, you do not denied them,

with magic it is possible that they may have really happened, and you don't really need a lot to be convinced that they really happened.  

Then you understand that the wars that took place, I making reference to older times, it was not only between the armies but also between the Gods of the warring parties.

You are getting way off topic.  How is this relevant to the conversation?

[Happinessity]

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

where is the everlasting Father. 

Please, The reference to the Scriptures that support with clarity, the message that is supposed to convey. 

Right in the middle there where it says, "GOD". 

5 hours ago, Behold said:

 

Your triangle is one very clear contradiction within itself.

You do realize this?

You dont realize this?

For example.....your triangle states that God is the Son, as long as you dont call God "The Father".

That math does not add up.

Another would be.....that your  triangle states that the Son is not the Holy Spirit.....However, each believer has the Holy Spirit, and this is known as "CHRIST IN YOU".....as in JESUS CHRIST in you, as in Jesus Christ the SON, is in you........yet, its the Holy Spirit.........or as another scripture states.....(Romans 8:1)...."Christ be IN you".

 

 

 

I think the triangle if you look at it does make sense if you realize God being sovereign is the son and the holy spirit. Whereas the holy spirit, the son, and the father, are not separate co-creators of one another. The source for the references in scripture to , father, son, holy spirit, is God. Because all three are God. Really there are two created when God is first a holy spirit himself. 

This article could help. It explains the symbolism in the design of the triangle to communicate trinity. Three sided tri-angle: Lines, Triangles, and the Trinity

8 minutes ago, OneLight said:

You are getting way off topic.  How is this relevant to the conversation?

Perhaps he didn't realize he was in the wrong thread when he asked the question? 

[other one]

3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Thank you, then when you read the events that happened in Egypt, at the time of Moses, you do not denied them,

with magic it is possible that they may have really happened, and you don't really need a lot to be convinced that they really happened.  

Then you understand that the wars that took place, I making reference to older times, it was not only between the armies but also between the Gods of the warring parties. 

 

 

I would agree with that.  Basically the watchers and their underlings.  The gods of those others were/are fallen angels

[Your closest friendnt]

9 minutes ago, other one said:

I would agree with that.  Basically the watchers and their underlings.  The gods of those others were/are fallen angels

Briefly, those powers knew that the Lord was superior to them, they knew who was the Lord, and they bowed down to him. 

They even tried to convince Faraw to do what the Lord was asking, to let the Lord have his way. 

The problem is with people how stubborn we are, 

The great Faraw wanted  to have the last word , and he would rather fight against all odds, and die and be remember with honor, than live with shame. 

The problem is with people, "Paul kicking against the quidance of Jesus, before JESUS had an encounter with him. 

The Gods of the Cananites, knew the end result, but the people still wanted to fight against , no just the people but against the Lord. 

This is the point, we are not fighting only against principalities in high places, we are also fighting, or are against the person's convictions, the PRIDE in PEOPLE. Thank you, that's the point I wanted to make. 

 

 

 

[JohnD]

Isaiah 9:6 (AV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1.  Wonderful,
2.  Counsellor,
3. The mighty God,
4. The everlasting Father,
5. The Prince of Peace.

1. Wonderful  (miraculous full of miracles) Matthew 7:22, Acts 2:14

2. Counsellor (Jesus said he would send another Counsellor) John 14:16

3. The mighty God (several verses, I'll pick 1 for now) John 1:1 

4. The everlasting Father (of creation) John 1:3, Colossians 1:13-16, Isaiah 44:24 (which he did alone by himself) → Genesis 1:1

5. Prince of Peace Genesis 23:6, Ephesians 2:14

The oneness types (modalists) point to Isaiah 9:6 and say "ahhhhh! We got you polytheists! Here it says Jesus is the Father and the Counsellor...

Jesus said he would send ANOTHER Counselor meaning not the same though the Greek is another of the same kind. The correct interpretation of that Greek word is like saying I would like ANOTHER peanut butter sandwich (another of the same kind having had a previous peanut butter sandwich). The modalist misinterpret that Greek word to mean the exact same. I would like to eat that exact same peanut butter sandwich again... ridiculous!

Point #4 is the bugaboo modalists believe they win over... and too many Trinitarians are at a loss to explain.

It establishes his deity (everlasting) to the detriment of those who do not believe Jesus is God incarnate. And it establishes his fatherhood... of creation.

Many Christians are hamstrung by extrabiblical traditions, creeds, liturgy, etc. The Apostle's creed for example begins with "I believe in God the Father creator of heaven and earth..."

John 1:3, Colossians 1:13-16, Isaiah 44:24 indicate rather that the preincarnate Jesus created the heavens and earth alone by himself.

Luke 3:38 puzzles the h-e-double hockey sticks out of people along side:

John 1:14 (AV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:18 (AV)
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:16–18 (AV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 John 4:9 (AV)
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Hebrews 10:5 (AV)
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Hebrews 1:5 (AV)
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

The only thing the Father of Jesus created was the body of Jesus.

There HAS to be a plurality of persons in the Godhead for these scriptures to be true.

BTW Though he acted alone by himself, the preincarnate Jesus was WITH the Father and the Holy Spirit during the creation week.

The old 1, 2...

John 1:1–2 (AV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

1 John 1:1–2 (AV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

Genesis 1:1–2 (AV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Luke 3:38, Genesis 6:2-4, Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7  (sons of God) refer to the sons of God the Word... not God the Father of Jesus.

Jesus is the everlasting Father of creation / humanity.  But he is not his Father who created his body.

The Bible is clear. Man's traditional interpretations are not.

[Your closest friendnt]

 

 that's what i read in the Scriptures. 

First Isaiah is speaking to Israelites or Jews, I am not sure about that, but perhaps both. 

A little history, the Lord pick Abraham to take a PEOPLE for him self. 

The house of Jacob, (included everyone). 

The Father of the Hose of Jacob was Jacob, but we will not have Jacob without Isaac and Abraham, and no one whould have the Lord as their Father without Abraham. 

So the descendants of Jacob had Abraham as their Father, and they also had the Lord God as their Father because they had his righteousness. 

At a time without the Law, and later through the Law of Moses. 

In Isaiah 9:2, the prophet said:

"You have increased the people but you have not increased their joy", 

This Scripture is addressing the one who had promise Abraham that he will increase his descendants. The Lord God the Father of their righteousness. 

There was something that the Lord God couldn't do give his children the life. 

Their Father the Lord God can not increased their joy by removing the seperation between them, there are other ways to say the same thing. 

The Lord God never call himself the Everlasting Father. 

In Ch, 9:6, he is telling us who is going to be the Everlasting Father . 

He is telling that the Everlasting Father is going to be the seed of the woman. 

He did not say the Heavenly Father, this is very obvious. 

The Everlasting Father he will give his righteousness to all the people of the world. 

Or his righteousness will be available to the whole world. 

And he will increase the joy of the  Jewish people and the whole world , by giving them not only his righteousness but also his life, and make them Co-heirs together with him , 

Becoming their Peace between the Heavenly Father, and them. 

So they can be in Heaven together not only with him but also with the Heavenly Father. 

PS 

The only one who could be eligible for this mission was the Lord God himself, because he was the one who had the life. 

Our Lord God with us, 

(God forbit, we will all die), that's how some Jewish must have react to that message, and you know why, to be in the presence of the Lord it was Death , the Lord had life , but his children had death. 

Emanuel , JESUS CHRIST our Everlasting Father. 

Who was made our peace between us and the Heavenly Father. 

And he takes us to the Heavenly Father , 

His Father and our Father. 

 

 

[Limey_Bob]

On 5/8/2017 at 2:16 AM, Fridaywinds said:

And that's not what God's word says at all ever.  

 

I've debated Oneness Pentecostals on youtube, by out posting alternate short 10 minute videos into a common playlist. I cannot post the link here, but my channel is called:  Christian Comedy Channel,   and if you go to the Oneness Pentecostal playlist then you can see 99 videos on the Oneness error as well as four of my debates with these people, edited at the finish (with nothing missing or cut out) into single videos. You might be interested in my debate with Oneness Pastor Steven Ritchie:  "there was a time when the Son of God was not."  He affirmed and I denied. As a former Oneness Pentecostal myself (I left in 1989), sadly, very few people understand this sect or the constant "doublespeak" which Oneness Pentecostal constantly use on Trinitarians. I explain this doublespeak on a video called: "Oneness Pentecostals and the Jesus Trick." Sadly, as a former Oneness Pentecostal myself, it pains me to see so many Trinitarians hoodwinked by Oneness folk on this chat forum thread. These people are not giving straight answers to honest questions, and are extremely skilled in doublespeak - saying one thing, but by redefining terms, meaning something quite different.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Limey_Bob

[Behold]

14 hours ago, OneLight said:

No, it is not a contradiction at all.  The Father is not the Son, nor the Son the Father.  The Father is not the Holy Spirit, nor the Holy Spirit the Father.  Jesus is not the Holy Spirit, nor the Holy Spirit Jesus.  Each are addressed separately in scripture.  What you fail to see is that all three, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, are one in every way, but separate.  I gave scripture in another reply you can see above that demonstrates this.

 

As soon as you said ....the "Father, Son, And Holy Spirit", are one in every way, but "separate", you have just proven your entire argument is a complete contradiction within itself,  as well as your "triangle" being misinformed.

And as i said previously...."Christ in you".....IS, Jesus in you, IS the Holy Spirit in you, unless you would want to try to prove that "Christ" isn't Jesus, using your interesting Triangle and Theology of misrepresentations.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Behold

[Behold]

13 hours ago, Happinessity said:

Right in the middle there where it says, "GOD". 

I think the triangle if you look at it does make sense if you realize God being sovereign is the son and the holy spirit.

Actually you just proved the Triangle does not make for good theology.

See, there is a reason that Jesus Himself said that "i and the FATHER are ONE".

There is a reason that Jesus claimed to be "I AM"...

etc.

[kwikphilly]

Quote

King James Bible
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.                                  John 14:20

King James Bible
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;     John 14:16

King James Bible
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.     Matt 28:20

King James Bible
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.         1 John 4:13

King James Bible
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?       1 Cor 3:16

I cannot understand what is so confusing about Jesus Abiding in us by our being Indwelled with Holy Spirit.....THere is but ONE GOD.....Our Almighty God has 3 distinct "persons"......The Person of God the Father,God the Son & God the Holy Spirit....."How" is this possible,I have no idea nor does it matter to me,I believe it because GOD Says it is so......why is this such a problem for some?   The Comforter is Jesus Spirit,Who is the Spirit of God ,Who is Jesus,Who is God....????