50 Reasons for the Pre-tribulation Rapture

[n2thelight]

34 minutes ago, brakelite said:

I don't think the second coming is so much a time issue, nor an event issue. I think the timing has more to do with our readiness or the willingness of the bride to allow the Father to dress her in the appropriate wedding garment...Christ's righteousness. 

The global preaching of the gospel will be the inevitable fruit or result of wearing that garment. Our willingness to fully submit to the righteousness of Christ through faith will coincide with the latter rain. The failure of the church to fulfil her true destiny has perhaps had the effect of delaying the arrival of the bridegroom. 

Did not Christ tell us everything that must happen before His return? 

Therefore His coming can't be imminent..

[brakelite]

It is imminent if you get run over by a bus. 

[Quasar93]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 1:09 AM, brakelite said:

I could respond to each individual point made, directly refute several, cast doubt on many, and dismiss some as nonsense. 

However, I neither have the time nor patience to deal with each point made, but I will propose two of my own, which if true automatically dismiss the majority of those points you have presented.

1. Has it occurred to you that we are called to be witnesses to the punishment of the wicked just as Noah, Lot, Rahab, and the first Christian generation were prior to 70ad in the destruction of Jerusalem?

2. 

Matthew 24:37-41  But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,  And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Now please note carefully what Jesus is saying here. First, the second coming will be affected in precisely the same way as the great flood. The unrighteous will not be aware of the signs of the times, they shall be living at ease, living life as normal with little or no thought of eternity, when they shall be taken all away.

Let us go to the parallel passage in the gospel of Luke. You will note that Luke adds a little more detail giving a slightly different perspective.

Luke 17:26-37  And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.  Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;  But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.  Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.  In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.  Remember Lot’s wife.  Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.  I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

The people that Matthew says are taken away,  Luke adds that they are destroyed. Thus the ‘taken away’ aspect or context of what Jesus is telling His disciples equates to death or destruction. This is borne out later in Luke’s passage when the disciples ask Him, “where are they taken to?” Jesus answer concerning the gathering of eagles around the carcasse echoes the following:

Revelation 19:17  And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;  That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.  And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.  And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

I am beginning to think that being left behind isn’t such a bad alternative. But we shall see. We will now look at another passage and see how consistent Jesus is regarding the subject.

Matthew 13:24-30 ¶  Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:  But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.  So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?  He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?  But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

A little later Jesus explains the parable to His disciples.

Matthew 13:37-42  He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;  The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.  As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.  The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;  And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

So let us recap the main points:

The second coming of Jesus Christ is in like manner as the great flood. All scriptures that so many claim as pertaining  to a separate rapture event other than the second coming are deluding themselves. They occur simultaneously.

The wicked, who in Noah’s day were living their normal everyday lives in ignorance and sin, were all taken away by the flood (Matthew 24:39) therefore so also will the wicked be at the second coming.

They are taken away to their ultimate death, or destruction. (Luke 17:27,29)

The concept of the wicked being taken is repeated many times. (Matt. 24:39-41; Luke 17:34-36)

The taking away or removal of the wicked to be destroyed comes before the gathering of the righteous.

Now, let me ask a question. In Noah’s day, after the flood had removed the wicked from the face of the earth and destroyed them all, who was left behind?

Genesis 7:23  And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Who was it that was left behind when fire and brimstone fell from heaven and destroyed Sodom and the other cities of the plain? Was it not Lot and his two daughters? The same could be asked of the survivors of Jericho and Jerusalem. Who were taken first?

 

Jesus mission during His first advent, was exclusively to Israel, He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 and in 10:5-6.  The Church did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.  Which includes every scripture you mentioned above.  Israel is decreed to go through the tribulation according to Jer.30:7 and Dan.9:27, while the Church is not, as documented below. 

You alluded to Rev.19:17, pertaining to conditions at the time of Jesus second coming, at the end of the tribulation. when He will bring the Church with Him, from their marriage in heaven, according to Rev.19:7-8, as recorded in verse 14.

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church 

Mt.24:31:
[/B] And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out.

Lk.21:36:
"Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.

1 Thes.4:13-18:
The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.

"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

"Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!


The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf


Quasar93

[n2thelight]

16 hours ago, brakelite said:

It is imminent if you get run over by a bus. 

Thinking we talking about those who are alive

[n2thelight]

11 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

Jesus mission during His first advent, was exclusively to Israel, He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 and in 10:5-6.  The Church did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.  Which includes every scripture you mentioned above.  Israel is decreed to go through the tribulation according to Jer.30:7 and Dan.9:27, while the Church is not, as documented below. 

Who is Israel?And please don't tell me it's those imposters over in that nation state...

Also Christ could not have returned before pentecost correct?

Edited December 20, 2017 by n2thelight

[Quasar93]

10 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Who is Israel?And please don't tell me it's those imposters over in that nation state...

Also Christ could not have returned before pentecost correct?

 

Is Today’s Israel The Same As The Biblical One?

Question:

I have a question. I have searched Scripture to try and find where God told the UN to establish a State and name it Israel. Is the State established in 1948 the same Israel talked about in the Bible? A friend asked me to Pray for Israel, and I’m willing to do that, but I am confused as to who Israel really is. She does not know either, not really.

Joshua 1:4 speaks to what God told Joshua. There is so much confusion in this world, I am seeking to find out what is truth from God’s Word. Can you help by providing me with Biblical information/Scripture?

 

Answer:

From before the time that the Israelites first saw the promised land, they were told that they’d be scattered through out the world and then brought back in the Latter Days (Deut. 30)

In Ezekiel 37 you’ll find the famous “dry bones” vision, a prophecy of Israel’s regathering beginning after WW2 and continuing to this day. The English first began to push for a Jewish homeland in 1917. When the UN finally recognized the right of the Jewish people to a land of their own in 1948, they carved out the small stretch of land that borders the Mediterranean where the ancient Jews had lived.

David ben Gurion was the nation’s first Prime Minister. Using the prophecy from Ezekiel 37, he named the land Israel. The Jewish people are descendants of the ancient Israelites who occupied that land in Biblical times

 

Source: https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/is-todays-israel-the-same-as-the-biblical-one/

 

 

Quasar93

 

[Daniel 11:36]

True

Israel is in the land today and standing for the tribulation period to start

The first of Israel to believe will be the 144000 sealed [Revelation 7:1-8]

Then others of both Israel and the Gentiles will be saved [Revelation 14:12-13]

.... but today's believers will be made immortal just before [Revelation 7:9-17]

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[iamlamad]

On 12/20/2017 at 12:28 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

True

Israel is in the land today and standing for the tribulation period to start

The first of Israel to believe will be the 144000 sealed [Revelation 7:1-8]

Then others of both Israel and the Gentiles will be saved [Revelation 14:12-13]

.... but today's believers will be made immortal just before [Revelation 7:9-17]

 

I agree. Good post.

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 12/16/2017 at 8:04 PM, Quasar93 said:

1. While posttribulationism appeared as early as 2 Thessalonians 2, many in the early church believed in the imminency of the Lord's return, which is an essential doctrine of pretribulationism.

Did not even read the list. Looked at that first one, and thought:

"An interesting admission. Imagine that, the Bible (2 Thess 2) supports post-tribulation, but we should go with a few non biblical opinions from the early church, where  imminency is expressed?"

That has always been the problem with many who hold the pre-trib rapture position. They think that commentary is more reliable that scripture.

I should also point out, that the idea of imminency as some think of it (that Jesus can return at any moment, without any further events needing to take place, is also not a scriptural one. Not going to derail that topic by going into those details, but the interested can get more info in another thread:

 

[simplejeff]

2 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

That has always been the problem with many who hold the pre-trib rapture position. They think that commentary is more reliable that scripture.

Like so many other false teachings,  when a person has "authorities" or "sources" (even a church or churches) to back up their position,  they are almost always if not always [anti-Scripture] = instead of Jesus,  like the scribes and pharisees who opposed Jesus were.      The more labels with their name (like phd, md, esq, etc) , the worse.....   (as Jesus says:  The Father hides Salvation and everything concerning Salvation from the educated;   The Father REVEALS Salvation and everything concerning Salvation to the infants !  for thus HE IS WELL PLEASED TO DO)  and YHVH is opposed to the proud, and gives [immeasurable] GRACE to the humble.