WHAT IS THE FALLING AWAY

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

The falling away is to deny Jesus is the son of God. That's it. The church's will do that when the Antichrist comes. They will say worship the beast not the son of God.

The "falling away" is a myth caused by the KJV not understanding Paul's 2 Thes. Passage. A better translation would be "departing" as in the church being "taken out of the way."

Edited February 19, 2018 by iamlamad

[Last Daze]

11 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You have completely overlooked the element of TIME. While the church is here - at the end, where we are NOW, the man of sin is here also, but is being restrained by God working through the church and using the authority He gave to the church. But when the time comes, the church will be removed, and then (and only then) will the man of sin be revealed as to who he will become: the BEAST of chapter 13. At this time, then, HE IS NO LONGER restrained. He is free and is given 42 months of authority by God Himself.  And during this 42 months of authority HE WILL HAVE POWER over the saints - but NOT THE SAME saints. How could this be any simpler?

You are right: IT IS NOT at the same time. "So, the church (saints) being the restrainer is out."  No, it is IN. Your argument is a sieve - does not hold water. Your TIMING is off. He is restrained NOW, but at the time of the pretrib rapture that restrainer will "be taken out of the way." Surely you know this. And you are wrong also as to WHICH saints. The saints who will be "overcome" will be the "remnant" saints. Remnant because the main load was taken out at the pretrib rapture. Surely you know this too:

Revelation 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Therefore you are mistaken about WHICH saints. The saints who are involved with the restraining will be taken out of the way, but those left behind (some saints will be left behind) will be the saints overcome. So we have saints through whom God will restrain, and we have different saints who will be overcome. See how simple this is?

 

The Holy Spirit is the POWER of the Godhead. God the father is the PLANNER, while Jesus is the Word, or the speaker for the Godhead. Of course then, it will be the Holy Spirit that will be doing the restraining. 

 

 

Oh, so that's what you mean when you say that you're all ears.  I'll know for next time.  I'm not going to argue.  Believe what you wish about eschatology.  It matters not.  Just be careful not to let it become a source of pride and arrogance. 

What matters is that we are ready and alert so that we can persevere in faithfulness to the end.

[Steve_S]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

The "falling away" is a myth caused by the KJV not understanding Paul's 2 Thes. Passage. A better translation would be "departing" as in the church being "taken out of the way."

The KJV, NKJV, and YLT translate it falling away.

The ESV and many others tranlates it as the "rebellion."

The NASB and and a few others translates it as "apostasy."

I cannot find a single bible translation at this point that translates it as "departing." That's about 500 years' worth of greek experts, many of whom were learned, faithful, Christian men. What makes the theory that it means "departing" correct, where is the evidence of this?

[Wayne222]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

The "falling away" is a myth caused by the KJV not understanding Paul's 2 Thes. Passage. A better translation would be "departing" as in the church being "taken out of the way."

I don't agree with you at all. I don't believe in the pretribulation rapture. 

[Wayne222]

The restrainer could be Satan himself. Look he is cast out of heaven at the start of the 3 and half years . When he was cast out he was taken out of the way. He came before God to accuse the children of God. Now he is out of the way. He knows he has a short amount of time left. So he gives power to the one who will be the Antichrist.  Satan restrain that day until he was cast out. I could be wrong but I might be right. I am still looking into it.

[frienduff thaylorde]

As someone above so keenly noted  some say falling away , some say rebellion,  some say apostacy.

THE thing is all three are accurate.    Falling away from sound doctrine and Christ IS   apostacy and it is rebellion.

Its the same thing .    Falling away is NOT the rapture .   nope .  not what that means .     if the word depature is used

then let is be used as depature from the TRUTH  ,    not earth  ,  TRUTH. 

As for what restrains.      Why not examine the whole of it .

The second chapter begins with .......the focus is on the DAY of the LORD, HIS COMING and to let no man deceive any about THAT DAY.

Paul then begins to explain what must first occur before THAT DAY.

And when he says so now you now what what withholds that he might be revealed in His time.   aka,    hey now you know what has to occur , what is withholding

before That day,  THAT DAY is THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST . 

The whole concept was not paul telling them about the coming of anti Christ,   but THE DAY OF CHRIST .

and he was letting the church know EVERYTHING that had to occur before JESUS returns.    

And he tells the church that this dark king anti Christ ,  IS destroyed AT THE COMING OF JESUS.

So be prepared to go through this coming tribulation .    The day , the coming OF the LORD JESUS,   its a ONE TIME EVENT .  

And now we know what withholds that HE JESUS might be revealed in his own time.

These are handwritten letters.  the topic was THE DAY of the LORD .    Then paul said all things to the church that had to occur before  HIS DAY.

Its really plain English.    I mean this was written as a letter.  

So as for the falling away AND the man of sin being revelaed ,  BEFORE JESUS DAY.   its very plain and simple .

Falling away,    from the faith from sound doctrine from the image of Christ .  

apostacy this is ,  rebellion this is ,  and some use the word depature .  IF so its means a depature from the FAITH , from sound doctrine .

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

Apostacy.     What is a good example of apostacy .        How bout men following a man who claims to be  AS GOD AS CHRIST .

And does paul not even say this one .   who exalts himself as God.      

But let no man deceive .     The mystery of iniquity has long been at work.

For I see many now in a great falling away and a tremendous abomination is being taught and an upmost of the falling away is occurring .

And what will this lead to ,     ONE who comes in , seen as a god by all religions, all faiths ,  secular as well.  

Interfaith is leading to this one dark dark one .  Who desires to have the worship , who desires to have the worship

who exalts himself above all gods .   And this message that all gods are equals is doing this job . preparing the way

for the one who desires to be as GOD to sit high above all religons , all faiths .

And its not marvel that the idea sprung from those who have for hundreds of years sat as this already .    

RIGHT in front of all our faces yet so few can see it .    

[Wayne222]

49 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Apostacy.     What is a good example of apostacy .        How bout men following a man who claims to be  AS GOD AS CHRIST .

And does paul not even say this one .   who exalts himself as God.      

But let no man deceive .     The mystery of iniquity has long been at work.

For I see many now in a great falling away and a tremendous abomination is being taught and an upmost of the falling away is occurring .

And what will this lead to ,     ONE who comes in , seen as a god by all religions, all faiths ,  secular as well.  

Interfaith is leading to this one dark dark one .  Who desires to have the worship , who desires to have the worship

who exalts himself above all gods .   And this message that all gods are equals is doing this job . preparing the way

for the one who desires to be as GOD to sit high above all religons , all faiths .

And its not marvel that the idea sprung from those who have for hundreds of years sat as this already .    

RIGHT in front of all our faces yet so few can see it .    

It's not the popes lol.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

I don't agree with you at all. I don't believe in the pretribulation rapture. 

I guess you have a right to be wrong if you choose to.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Apostacy.     What is a good example of apostacy .        How bout men following a man who claims to be  AS GOD AS CHRIST .

And does paul not even say this one .   who exalts himself as God.      

But let no man deceive .     The mystery of iniquity has long been at work.

For I see many now in a great falling away and a tremendous abomination is being taught and an upmost of the falling away is occurring .

And what will this lead to ,     ONE who comes in , seen as a god by all religions, all faiths ,  secular as well.  

Interfaith is leading to this one dark dark one .  Who desires to have the worship , who desires to have the worship

who exalts himself above all gods .   And this message that all gods are equals is doing this job . preparing the way

for the one who desires to be as GOD to sit high above all religons , all faiths .

And its not marvel that the idea sprung from those who have for hundreds of years sat as this already .    

RIGHT in front of all our faces yet so few can see it .    

You don't have the point of view that the Lord has. In His view the church has been steadily GROWING worldwide for years. If some do actually "fall away," many more enter the body of Christ on earth.

This could not be Paul's meaning, for no one would know, if they saw some local people fall away, what was happening worldwide. And Paul said it was a very significant apostasia or departing. How would any one person know if what he saw was "enough" to fit Paul's description  - so he or she would know they saw what Paul was describing?