Tribulation is not Wrath

[Daniel 11:36]

 "Good luck with that! I hope you don't fall into that mind-bending trap"

 

You are the one in the trap son .... repent and turn to Jesus Christ and He will save you

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Steve Conley]

10 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Quoting your source himself: "The theological, contextual, and grammatical features support the aorist verb “has come” (ēlthen) in our sixth seal [Rev. 6:17] passage depicting the impending day of the Lord’s wrath.

In the context of Rev. 6, "came"  and "has come" have the same basic meaning, which is:

At the very point that the speakers are saying "thy wrath came [or has come]," the tribulation has ended --THE TRIB IS PAST -- and the time of God's wrath has begun. "For God did not appoint us [i.e., the elect who are to be raptured] to wrath..." 1 Thes 5:9

Now, this is not all that difficult to grasp, is it? You seem to be having trouble with it.

So, since the Wrath came/has come at the 6th Seal, it does not COME AGAIN at Rev. 11:18. Therefore, the aorist verb in 11:18 IN THE CONTEXT OF THE WHOLE REVELATION NARRATIVE must be taken in the past tense. The Wrath began already at the 6th Seal, and Rev. 11:18 is simply reviewing that fact, along with the related fact that -- Rev. 11:17 "You have taken Your great power and reigned." Reigned is an aorist verb taken as PAST TENSE, because God's sitting on the throne of judgement, seen in Rev. 6:16, was his taking power and reigning.

Some people try to get around this by claiming that 6:17 and 11:18 are contiguous, but they then must promote all kinds of wild contortions of the events of chapters 7 - 11:14 to try to stuff all those events into the period of the first 5 Seals. Good luck with that! I hope you don't fall into that mind-bending trap.

 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

WilliamL, please notice what is said to have come in verse 17.

Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

It is the day of His wrath that has come. There are many things which happen upon the first day of "the day of the Lord" or "the day of Christ." See them in order below.

What takes place on the day of Christ's arrival at His parousia

1) The mega earthquake (Rev 6:12; Isa 2:19)

2) The cosmic sign of Joel 2:31 (Rev 6:12-13; Matt 24:29)

3) The surviving saints look up and lift up their heads (Luke 21:25-28)

4) The revelation of Christ with the holy angels (Matt 24:30; 2Thes 1:7; Rev 1:7)

5) The earth-dwellers attempt to hide from the soon coming wrath of the Lamb (Rev 6:15-17; Isa 13:6-11)

6) The dead in Christ are raised (resurrected) and the surviving saints are changed in an indivisible moment of time (Dan 12:1-2; 1Cor 15:22-23, 51-52; Rev 20:4-6)

7) The resurrected and changed saints are caught up (raptured) by the angels and united with Jesus in the clouds (Matt 24:31; 1Thes 4:15-17; 2Thes 2:1)

8  The 144,000 Jews, 12,000 from each tribe with the exception of Dan are sealed in their foreheads for protection from the trumpet and vial judgments while remaining upon the earth (Rev 7:1-8)

9) The elect (the raptured saints) will be escorted to the Fathers house to stand before the throne (Rev 7:9-17)

10) The seventh seal will be opened (Rev 8:1)

11) There is 1/2 hour of silence in Heaven (Rev 8:1)

12) The first trumpet is blown initiating God's wrath upon the earth-dwellers (Rev 8:7)

Hallelujah

[Fidei Defensor]

Amen. We undergo the wrath of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7, Matthew 24:29) but not the Wrath of our Lord Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:11-21, Zachariah 14:1-3). 

[Mike Mclees]

Rev 15: 1-2 clearly shows that persecution and Gods wrath are two different things  It shows the overcoming bride in heaven honoring God after they were persecuted by the antichrist

Antichrist persecution and Gods wrath are not going on at the same time. Next great tribulation does not begin until after the antichrist calls himself God 3 1/2 yrs after the 7yr peace 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Mike Mclees

[Diaste]

On 7/30/2018 at 9:56 AM, Mike Mclees said:

Rev 15: 1-2 clearly shows that persecution and Gods wrath are two different things  It shows the overcoming bride in heaven honoring God after they were persecuted by the antichrist

Antichrist persecution and Gods wrath are not going on at the same time. Next great tribulation does not begin until after the antichrist calls himself God 3 1/2 yrs after the 7yr peace 

It seems so simple, doesn't it? Jesus says it the plainest language available. "When you see the abomination that makes desolate standing in the holy place....then shall be great tribulation...after the tribulation of those days the sun goes out, the moon goes dark, the stars fall...then shall appear the sign of the coming of the Son of man...and everyone will see him...and he will send His angels with great trumpet sound...and they will gather together his friends..." - Matt 24:15-31

[Last Daze]

On 8/3/2018 at 4:27 AM, Diaste said:

It seems so simple, doesn't it? Jesus says it the plainest language available. "When you see the abomination that makes desolate standing in the holy place....then shall be great tribulation...after the tribulation of those days the sun goes out, the moon goes dark, the stars fall...then shall appear the sign of the coming of the Son of man...and everyone will see him...and he will send His angels with great trumpet sound...and they will gather together his friends..." - Matt 24:15-31

Yes, it is simple, for those willing to see it.  Eye ointment may be in order for those having eyesight issues.

[Still Alive]

I see the seven year tribulation period as 3.5 years of tribulation for the holy ones (saints) followed by the rapture followed by 3.5 years of Wrath of God for everyone left.

 

But I could be wrong. Nobody got it right regarding the coming of Jesus 2000 years ago. How are we any better?

[Last Daze]

12 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

But I could be wrong. Nobody got it right regarding the coming of Jesus 2000 years ago. How are we any better?

Things were intentionally hidden then.  "Getting it right" is not the ultimate objective.  Knowing and doing the will of God is.

[Still Alive]

6 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Things were intentionally hidden then.  "Getting it right" is not the ultimate objective.  Knowing and doing the will of God is.

Exactly my take! 

BTW, things are intentionally hidden now. I'd really like to know what the seven thunders said.

[Zemke]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 5:27 AM, Diaste said:

It seems so simple, doesn't it? Jesus says it the plainest language available. "When you see the abomination that makes desolate standing in the holy place....then shall be great tribulation...after the tribulation of those days the sun goes out, the moon goes dark, the stars fall...then shall appear the sign of the coming of the Son of man...and everyone will see him...and he will send His angels with great trumpet sound...and they will gather together his friends..." - Matt 24:15-31

Yes it is simple, Peter in Acts 2 said the sun and the moon will do the things they do "before" the great and glorious day of the Lord come. Jesus said "after" the tribulation of those days the sun and moon show signs. It all fits nicely if we remove the mountains of explanations on scripture out of the way.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Zemke