Christians and drinking

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

Turning water into wine to keep the party going.......imagine that!

[Knowingtruth]

I do drink moderately for health reasons.

[Riccardo]

On 6/30/2018 at 3:23 AM, Cletus said:

Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine.

This has been a difficult one for many, seeing that all grape juice was called wine. 

The grape juice referred to as the good or new wine was grape juice.

 Romans 12:1,2 present your bodies as a living sacrifice unto God,

1Cor. 6:19,20 Your body is the temple if God,

1Cor10:31 Whatever you eat or drink do all to the glory of God.

It was Chist in the old testament who warned Israel

Prov.20:1 Wine is a mocker.

Prov 23:29-32 Do not drink fermented wine. It brings sorrow,wow,& contention. It is deceptive & clouds judgment.  There are others.

There is also a duty of care involved by Jesus here as well.

But people will believe what they want to suit their desire to have it.

Is there anywhere in the bible that says its good, if so we have some serious contradictions or rather incorrect translating.

God Bless

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Riccardo

[Neighbor]

36 minutes ago, Riccardo said:

This has been a difficult one for many, seeing that all grape juice was called wine. 

The grape juice referred to as the good or new wine was grape juice.

 Romans 12:1,2 present your bodies as a living sacrifice unto God,

1Cor. 6:19,20 Your body is the temple if God,

1Cor10:31 Whatever you eat or drink do all to the glory of God.

It was Chist in the old testament who warned Israel

Prov.20:1 Wine is a mocker.

Prov 23:29-32 Do not drink fermented wine. It brings sorrow,wow,& contention. It is deceptive & clouds judgment.  There are others.

There is also a duty of care involved by Jesus here as well.

But people will believe what they want to suit their desire to have it.

Is there anywhere in the bible that says its good, if so we have some serious contradictions or rather incorrect translating.

God Bless

 

So Jesus whipped up some fresh grape juice out of plain water upon the pleading of his mother at a wedding where the host had run out of fresh grape juice for the guests? And, that it was considered to be outstanding fresh grape juice, better than  the grape juice that was being served up to that point at the wedding. It was said of His fresh  grape juice that  unlike most hosts that serve cheaper canned grape juice last when everyone  is full of the better fresh grape juice,  He instead served the best grape juice last at the  wedding feast? ???  I sure don't think so.  My Lord Jesus  heeded the call to get more wine for the guests, not more fresh grape juice. It was a wedding celebration. Wine was the beverage of choice. Mogan David of course.

 

 The following is about fresh grape juice?  "And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins and it will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed.  But new wine must be put into fresh wineskins.  And no one after drinking old wine desires new, for he says, ‘The old is good.’”

[Riccardo]

On 7/1/2018 at 3:50 PM, Cletus said:

grape juice has never been referred to as wine, unless of course it was a bad interpretation, which i will explain.

Sorry brother but you are wrong, have a look on bibleinfo .com, its 1 of  many that say I'm not wrong 

[enoob57]

We are not home and in this place many many things can be denied by oneself … not as attaining anything but as showing the expectation of the hope within us. I agree as Paul for the sake of family I walk carefully in love for them  

[DWH2003]

Eph. 5:18 And be not drunken with wine, wherein is riot, but be filled with the Spirit;

 

v. 18a - Drinking wine that produces "riot" (intoxication) is forbidden.

v. 18b - If we are to be "filled" with the Spirit (His teaching, His word), then there will be no room for wine that produces riot.

v.  18a - Delving further, the Greek word "drunken" here is an inceptive verb.  It describes the beginning of a process.  Literally, it means "do not begin to drink wine, where in is riot".

 

There are many other passages which overtly address alcohol also, even demanding soberness (literally free from intoxication). But this one is pretty clear & emphatic.

----------

 

As far as Grape juice being referred to as "wine":

 

The main OT & NT words for "wine" are generic words, describing a range of things that come (originally) from the grape.

Examples include:

Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith Jehovah, As the new **wine** is found in the **cluster**, and one saith, Destroy it not, for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants’ sake, that I may not destroy them all.

 

This is clearly the grape's juice still in the grape... not fermented.

Also,

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new **wine** into old wine-skins: else the skins burst, and the wine is spilled, and the skins perish: but they put new **wine** into fresh wine-skins, and both are preserved.

This is clearly grape juice being put into new wine skins.  Prior to any decay/fermentation.  It is the process of aging/decaying/fermenting that releases gasses and which would stretch a new wine skin / burst an old one if reused.

 

Thus, we must consider context when reading the word "wine" in the Bible, to see if it is speaking of grape juice as wine or fermented, intoxicating "wine".  Biblical language is not identical to modern language.

Edited July 2, 2018 by DWH2003

[other one]

up until the middle 1800's when you picked a grape three things happen.....   you eat it is short time, make alcoholic wine from it, or it turns itself into vinegar......

You can play with the words all you want but those are the historical facts about the grape.....     

One does not get drunk/intoxicated by drinking wine or beer in moderation....   and the Bible is speaking of that when it speaks of wine and whether or not to drink.  it is a misrepresentation to use the Bible as abstinence from alcohol completely.....       not to abuse alcohol is a different story.

Prov 31:6-7
6 Give strong drink to the one who is perishing,
and wine to those in bitter distress; 
7  let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.
ESV
 

New Wine from Jewish History and the meaning of the words in the Bible is wine that was made in the year the grape was picked....   it still has some sugar in it and when you drink a bit too much that sugar pulls the alcohol quickly into your blood stream and gives you a very intoxication....   Boons Farm Wine is  an example of new wine and it really interferes with your thinking when drinking much of it.

But it is always stated that one should not drink in excess.      

[ravindran]

On 6/29/2018 at 11:23 AM, TheAimes said:

My personal opinion - drinking in moderation isn't a sin but it's something that a believer should practice wisely, if they practice it at all. We're encouraged to not be a stumbling block to those around us, so if in the company of others (especially those I know have had an issue with alcohol, those who feel it's a sin, or those young in the faith) I typically will not drink. If I know the person well and know that they also feel a liberty to have a drink from time to time that's a different story. However, I can't even remember the last time I had a drink, it's not something I do often nor something I desire on a regular basis. I attend a church with a very strict view on drinking, that even a sip is a sin. I do think it can be a slippery slope and if one knows they have an addictive personality it's probably wise to just stay clear of any alcohol. 

 Just my two cents, y'all be blessed. 

I completely agree with what you posted! Drinking is very addictive. Why even give it a chance. We cannot take a legalistic view on this matter. We have to go by principles defined in Bible. We have freedom in Christ. But not everything is beneficial as Paul says. I am not sure how God can be glorified through drinking. Some argue it does no harm. May be slowly it leads to addiction. Or leads the person next to us into addition. Only harm can come through drinking. It is better to avoid it completely.

[DWH2003]

In addition to my earlier post about the word "wine" in the Bible, we should consider that there was no distillation in Biblical times.  What does this mean?

(A) The process of fermentation is where yeast turns grape juice into alcohol.  But that is not all that is happening.  Decay is also turning it into vinegar.  Thus, the older the wine, the worse it tasted / harder it was to drink. 

(B)  Also, the alcohol would reach around 5-6% max because it would kill the yeast.  Thus, no more alcohol would be produced, but more vinegar would be... since decay still continued.

There was no known way to separate the alcohol from this in Biblical times.  Thus fresh grape juice was the best tasting (John 2:10) and those intending to get drunk had to "tarry long" at the low alcohol content "wine", which was ill tasting.  To get the strongest alcohol content in fact you had to get the worst tasting wine!  Thus you see the mixing in of spices into their wine to try to make it more palatable (Prov. 23:30).

Proverbs 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; They that go to seek out mixed wine.

 

The difference today is that with distillation, alcohol can be drawn off and *concentrated* as well as flavored without any vinegar.  Modern "wine" is MUCH stronger than Biblical wine.

 

So.... if the Bible condemns 5-6% alcohol as "strong" (Lev. 10:9; etc) what would God say of modern fortified alcohols?

There is a great old book on this, called Bible Wines by William Patton (I think that is the name of it, I am not at home right now to double check). Not in print, but you can get old ones or copies.

 

And, just to be helpful. Even without knowing all of this background the NT makes it very plain.

The word "sober" (Strong's #3525 — Verb — nepho) literally means "to be free from the influence of intoxicants".  It is used in  Romans 12:3, 2 Corinthians 5:13, Titus 2:6 & in 1 Peter 4:7.  Translated as sober, sober minded, and similar phrases. Pretty clear.