Who are the Foolish Virgins

[OldCoot]

8 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

The sin of holding back resources.  Please ask if you need their names (I can look up again).

The account in Acts, Ananias and Sapphira were not judged on holding back resources, but for lying about it to the Holy Spirit.  It was their property, they could do with it what they wished. They were not required to contribute any or all of it.  They claimed that what they gave was all of it.  They lied and tried to make themselves look like something they were not, pure and simple.   Even Peter acknowledged in the account that it was their property and they could have done what they wished with it.  Even after selling it.

They were promoting a falsehood.  Many in the congregation were giving all of their earthly possessions.  A & P wanted to look like they were doing the same thing and promoted the lie that they were.  That is what got them in trouble.

Edited April 7, 2019 by OldCoot

[Montana Marv]

9 hours ago, eileenhat said:

I have been looking closely at the luke-warm Christian scriptures including the foolish virgins ones too.  

What Jesus is indicating here with the 'I do not know you' is the reality that while many Christians have faithfully followed the Lord and kept his commandments, they have failed in one critical area of their lives.  They have failed to fully devote themselves to the Lord, both in spirit and in the physical.  It is not enough to say you love the Lord, you have to actually mean it and be prepared to show it.  You actually have to love Jesus with your whole heart. 

Those using halfway measures are to be tested.  They sit on the fence, half in love with God and half in love with themselves. God will not recognize these people as his children, during judgement time, is what Jesus is indicating with this phrasing, "I do not know you".

How can Jesus know you if you leave him out of your heart?

I have also my own account to share about this exact set of verses.

These are the times of judgement and those who do not fully embrace the lord, are being tried.

I saw one such instance recently.  A person I knew who is retired kept saying "no" to helping the needy.

While we are told to save money, plan for retirement and spend wisely by those that rule earth for Satan (the corrupt press, educators, scientists, politicians etc.), what we fail to understand is that God sees this as going against his wishes, if he is asking you to share what you have.

It truly is the exact crime that two people died for in the first community set up by the apostles.  The sin of holding back resources.  Please ask if you need their names (I can look up again).

What we fail to understand is you can not be of two minds.  Saying you agree with scriptures and understand about sharing so you tithe to your Church, volunteer etc. but ultimately are only giving lip services to the idea of embracing helping those God wants you to help.

We think too much like modern atheist society.  Society has a completely different set of ideas about sharing resources than God has.

It is a fine line between sharing with others because you love the Lord and doing it as a social obligation.

You are lukewarm toward the Lord in that case.  Half in love with self.

In the past, this did not matter so much.  You still were saved and had God's good graces.  What these scriptures are indicating is the end of grace.

But as we enter into the time of judgement, it becomes critical exactly how much you are actually devoting of your time, health, money etc. for God's purposes.

No Church can guide you at this level.  This is when it is all on us.  You can't know your own heart and what you will actually chose upon being tested.  Will you answer the Lord's call for giving of yourself or beat a hasty retreat?

Even though I do not agree with much of what you post, this post of yours is very relevant.

With regard to retirement; family units used to stay together.  Homesteads used to handed down to the next generation.  The extended family took care the their elders.  Then God told Abraham to leave Ur of the Chaldeans and go to a promised land, where God would take care of all his needs.  Individuals have been chasing this dream.  Good or bad, who knows.

Then yet again people do rob God.  Malachi 3:6-10 - I, the Lord do not change....  Will a man rob God?  How do we rob you?  In tithes and offerings.  You are under a curse..... because you are robbing Me.    Yet, in Matt 23:23 -Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites.  You give a tenth of your spices; mint, dill and cumin.  But you have neglected the more important matters of the law; justice, mercy and faithfulness.  You should have practiced the later, without neglecting the former.

Then another question; How many give God their First Fruits (Abel in Gen 4:4)  or with the nation when crossing the Jordan.  Jericho was the First Fruit of all their spoils, to be given to God (via the Levites).  They were cursed because of Achan's sin of withholding some of the cache.  Once this sin was taken care of Israel then begin to win again being blessed.  Do we give God our First Fruits and become blessed, or do we give Him table scrapes and become cursed.

How many will go into a restaurant and eat a meal and then leave without paying your bill.  Many get fed in Church, then leave without paying their bill, which are tithes and offerings.

Giving First Fruits requires Faith, giving scrapes to our Lord requires nothing.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[JoeCanada]

11 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

You seem to have forgotten that BOTH the wise and the foolish HAD oil, the difference was that the foolish "did not have enough oil". They were lacking something that the wise had MORE of. The solution was for the foolish to "go to the marketplace to "buy" more of whatever the "oil" represents. There are many Bible verses pertaining to oil, so a debate on the subject is very likely. For me, oil in this context is for the lamp - to keep the light burning. The lamp is also a key component to look at. ALL 10 virgins did have a lamp and ALL 10 were also referred to as "virgins". All these components would take many pages to cover fully, so in answer to your rejection of the sentence regarding the foolish virgins not being the Jews - I must point out that ONLY the 144K Jews accept Jesus at the start of the tribulation. This acceptance is the "faith" which is portrayed in the "lamp" but the 144K are not described as carrying lamps or connected to lamps in any way in Revelation. Rev. 1 explains the lamp as being a symbol of our faith (the Christians). The Jewish people DO accept Jesus but NOT until the end of the tribulation period.

I too believe the Holy Spirit may be the "oil" spoken of here, but then we get into the issue of "how do we get more?" John 1 2:20 "But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge." implies that knowledge is imperative in all of this. Knowledge is gained through Scripture and it appears the foolish are either lacking knowledge or more likely following false teachings about the Scriptures. The 144K are NOT the "Church" because the Church is no longer here when the 144K are "marked" at the start of the tribulation.

MEAT... "in due season" references knowledge and understanding of Scripture (more precisely prophecy). Bible verses on this imply that the "end-times" shepherds (church/religious leaders) were NOT telling their followers about the time in which they were living. In other words, correctly identifying that they are the final generation. Sure, no one knows when the rapture occurs, but we certainly CAN and SHOULD know when it is very near. The end of Luke 12 parallels the Matthew verses and I hope anyone reading this will read through it. The phrase "weeping and gnashing of teeth" will ALWAYS be used in reference to the tribulation BEFORE the 2nd coming NOT the judgments AFTER it! (Very important to understand this)

1 Corinthians 3:1

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

² I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

³ For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

 

"Milk" is given to babies because they cannot YET handle solid food (meat). New believers are babies surviving on the milk of faith. This is seen in the verses that follow and summarized in...

 

¹⁰ According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

¹¹ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

¹² Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

¹³ Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 

It seems to me that "meat" refers to Obedience in faith, faith is the foundation on which the temple is built, but the walls are built (brick by brick) by our obedience. The "WOOD, HAY AND STUBBLE" (worthless works - probably religious works) in verse 12 are what gets "burned up", while the "GOLD, SILVER, AND PRECIOUS STONES" (righteous obedience) are "refined/purified" by that same fire.

 

Hi Don,

You may have hit on something.

In reading your reply, it dawned on me that the Foolish Virgins could be those on 'milk' only. They had not bothered to get 'meat'. Perhaps they thought that 'milk' was enough to get them through. But God says it's not enough. 

Gonna have to do some more thinking on this. Interesting though.

"I must point out that ONLY the 144K Jews accept Jesus at the start of the tribulation."

Well, I don't see this in Scripture. In Rev 7 we see the 144,000 sealed. That's after the first 6 seals, just before the seventh seal. Then come the trumpets and bowl judgments, which I contend is the Wrath of God. 

[Omegaman 3.0]

14 hours ago, OldCoot said:

The account in Acts, Ananias and Sapphira were not judged on holding back resources, but for lying about it to the Holy Spirit.  It was their property, they could do with it what they wished. They were not required to contribute any or all of it.  They claimed that what they gave was all of it.  They lied and tried to make themselves look like something they were not, pure and simple.   Even Peter acknowledged in the account that it was their property and they could have done what they wished with it.  Even after selling it.

They were promoting a falsehood.  Many in the congregation were giving all of their earthly possessions.  A & P wanted to look like they were doing the same thing and promoted the lie that they were.  That is what got them in trouble.

Gee thanks, LOL! In your post OldCoot, you made it look as though I said that Ananias and Sapphira were judged for withhold funds, that is not what I said, that was what I quoted  eileenhat  as saying, which is what I was responding to! I just wanted to get that on the record, lest anyone misunderstand!

[OldCoot]

2 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Gee thanks, LOL! In your post OldCoot, you made it look as though I said that Ananias and Sapphira were judged for withhold funds, that is not what I said, that was what I quoted  eileenhat  as saying, which is what I was responding to! I just wanted to get that on the record, lest anyone misunderstand!

My bad if I misread into what you posted.  It can be a common mistake done by many in reading forum posts, and it seems I may have made that mistake.  Just an old coot!

[Pekoudah]

Taken from another forum..."The “foolish virgins” will have lost out on being a part of the bride of Christ, and of participating in the marriage of the Lamb, but nevertheless they are still considered “virgins” (pure ones), and as blessed virgins they will be invited to the wedding feast. (Rev 19:7-9)

“The royal daughter (the Church) is all glorious within the palace; her clothing is woven with gold. She shall be brought to the King in robes of many colors; the virgins, her companions who follow her, shall be brought to you. With gladness and rejoicing they shall be brought; they shall enter the King’s palace.” (Psa 45:13-15)

"The virgins her companions" who follow, born of the spirit through great tribulation will be present at the marriage festivities as the bridesmaids but not as the bride of Christ."

[ENOCH2010]

The foolish virgins are the per-trib believers, when the rapture doesn't happen pre-trib like they hope, they will run out of oil during the great tribulations. The virgins with enough oil to get to the end are the post-trib believers who expect to be here through the GT.

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

The foolish virgins are the per-trib believers, when the rapture doesn't happen pre-trib like they hope, they will run out of oil during the great tribulations. The virgins with enough oil to get to the end are the post-trib believers who expect to be here through the GT.

So what you are saying is the Pre-Trib foolish virgins destination is the Lake of Fire, I do not know you.  Matt 7:23 - Then I will tell them plainly," I never knew you, Away from me, you evil doers".

So what you are saying is that the only way to Heaven is to believe in Post-Trib.  I never knew this was a prerequisite for Salvation.  My, Oh, My.  What have some believers gotten themselves into.  Salvation, by Post-Trib.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[VCO]

The Foolish Virgins are people who THINK they are Christians, but NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN.

 

For those who are unsure, Born Again happens the moment GENUINE Faith in CHRIST really enters your heart (human spirit).

 

The Holy Spirit works on the Heart, until it has Sincere Remorse of SIN, Rev. 2:16, Rev. 3:3, Rev. 3:19, Mat. 21:31-31, Luke 18:9-14, Ps. 34:18, Ps. 51:17.

Out of the LOVE in our Hearts, because of the HOLY SPIRIT, we willing surrender to JESUS CHRIST as LORD (MASTER):  John 1:12-13, Col. 2:6, Rom. 10:9, 1 Cor. 12:3.

The Holy Spirit Births your human spirit from Death into ETERNAL LIFE, John 3:3-7, Col. 2:13, 1 John 3:14, Titus 3:5-8.

The Holy Spirit takes up Residence in your HEART as TEACHER of Truth, John 14:16-17, John 14:26, John 16:13.

Pours GOD's Love directly into our Hearts (human spirit), Rom. 5:5, Rom. 5:1-10.

The Holy Spirit Gives us Spiritual Understanding, 1 Cor. 2:6-16.

After we are SAVED, the Holy Spirit, uses GOD's LOVE in us, to PRODUCE LOVE FOR GOD, in the form of Obedience, and the LOVE for the Brethren, 

John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, 1 John 3:14-19.

 

For those who do not understand that Obedience is a BYPRODUCT of GOD's LOVE IN US, and falsely think Obedience is not a free Gift and part of Salvation, 

try to make it square with this Scripture:

 

2 Timothy 1:9 (CSBBible)
⁹  He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

 

IT CAN ONLY BE A FREE GIFT, BECAUSE OF THAT VERSE.

Edited May 16, 2019 by VCO

[OldCoot]

I still am convinced that the parable of the virgins in Matthew 25 has nothing to do with believers/redeemed.  For one, all those who trust in Yeshua are given eternal life.  Now, what part of eternal is not eternal?   There isn't any conditional eternal or semi eternal.  There is just eternal.  And while the bride of Yeshua is as a chaste virgin He will gather to Himself, the bride of Yeshua is not a collection of virgins.  All the redeemed constitute one body in Messiah, not a collection of bodies. 

The entire Olivet discourse is not targeted toward the believers/redeemed of Yeshua in any way and Matthew 25 is a exposition on the events of how those on the earth are separated when Yeshua comes and sets up the kingdom of heaven on earth.  The example of the virgins is an exposition with a basis on Ezekiel 20.  Just as the example of the Sheep and Goat Judgment later in Matthew 25 is an exposition with a basis on Joel 3.   And in neither case is the redeemed of the body of Messiah in view.   That is because the Messiah and His Bride, the redeemed, have been joined together as one. 

And if one studies the Jewish marriage ritual of the time of Messiah, the wedding feast occurs after the groom has taken his bride and they have consummated the marriage for 7 days in the Chuppah (wedding chamber) the groom had prepared and had been approved by the groom's father before the groom was allowed to go retrieve his bride.   It was nothing like today where there is a reception and feast at the same time as when the couple are married.  The virgins (pure ones, select ones, chosen ones, elect as per Isaiah) waiting for the the groom to come are the Hebrew people that make it thru the tribulation period and are separated as the virgins are which is outlined in Ezekiel 20.  And the groom comes with His bride to the wedding feast.  He doesn't come for His bride at the wedding feast.  And a wedding feast is not attended to only by the bride and groom but also those who are friends of the bride and groom.   In this case, those who make it thru the tribulation period and are selected to enter the Kingdom of Yeshua on earth.

The bride is not mentioned in Matthew 25 because (1) those listening to this discourse understood the Jewish marriage ritual and (2) the focus is not on the bride of Messiah but those who are not the bride.  In the first part of Matthew 25 the Hebrews themselves who are separated, and later in Matthew 25, those of the nations are separated primarily based on how they treated the Hebrew people, the elect as per Isaiah and the physical brethren of Yeshua, all of which is outlined in Joel 3.

So there is no need to put a paranoia trip on the believers about missing the rapture, being an unwise virgin, guilts trips and other mental and emotional abuse that has been heaped on those who Yeshua has redeemed.  

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by OldCoot