Husband too smart to believe

[Willa]

22 hours ago, SurrenderedWife said:

I came back to Jesus about 5 weeks ago. My unsaved husband contemplated if he should divorce me before we start a family and get our kids involved in what was already a conflicted marriage.
A couple weeks ago, he committed to staying with me and actually said he prefers me being a Christian because he saw 1) I complain much less 2)I seem happier 3)Not suicidal or anxious 4)We no longer get into arguments over things we used to since we got together. He watched a very compelling history of believers, new world order bible versions, Bible movies etc. and asked me about church, hearing very compelling things... BUT his intellect is too sharp for me now.

3 years ago I was able to debate him on over 100 different reasons he was convinced the Bible wasn't true, but he was not convinced then despite what I thought were incredibly inspired responses on my part. Eventually he convinced ME to stop believing for 3 most awful years where everything was falling apart in our home and our lives (despite us living incredibly healthy lifestyles). I turned to Jesus in desperation, but he thinks he's been improving and doing well for himself so had no such need. The compelling case for the Bible, after countless hours of searching for God, and personal experiences of God's voice and my transformation are enough for me to believe without needing to have all my questions answered. Not so for my husband. He still presents thorough intellectual challenges to the Bible that no one around us is willing or able to take on.

His heart wants to believe, but his ravenous intellect is stopping him. I'm still trying to find answers because I love him and don't want him to perish, and he reiterates that he doesn't feel preached at all and I haven't put him off. Whenever I found an answer though, he just tears it apart and makes all preachers seem like liars. :( He seems to have very good discernment when it comes to Godly and ungodly things, and with his many abilities could be one of the greatest men of God of our age. It seems a waste for him to not believe before rapture, or to die before saving and edifying many souls for the Lord....instead standing before the throne with heavy condemnation for continually rejecting God's call. I can't find any advice on how to bring a sharp-witted sceptical husband to the Lord. Could anyone advise?

I could paste the 9 pages of 'problems' he has with the Bible, but may bring them up in 'Apologetics' one at a time.

 

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been praying throughout, including before, mid and post-conversations. Others are praying too.

The bottom line is does he need his sins forgiven?   There is no other way that it can be done but through Jesus' death on the cross, taking the punishment that he deserves.  It's God's way or the highway, so to speak.  The word says it is a fool who says in his heart there is no God.  

It is most often plain ugly pride that keeps people from receiving Christ.  They think they are too intelligent, or that they are in a better class of people, or people only do that because they need a crutch and they don't need any help, and finally, they are just as good as the next guy.  One lady even said that we would have to wait and see if the good outweighs the bad.  That is how the heathen think.  

1Co 1:26  For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

1Co 1:27  But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;  1Co 1:28  and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,  1Co 1:29  that no flesh should glory in His presence.

I was guided to 1 Peter 3 and was told that he would be won without a word--no debating or arguing, no preaching.  That only resulted in him tearing up my bibles.  It was Just by my change in attitude as you have also seen.

1Pe 3:1 AMP.   IN LIKE manner, you married women, be submissive to your own husbands [subordinate yourselves as being secondary to and dependent on them, and adapt yourselves to them], so that even if any do not obey the Word [of God], they may be won over not by discussion but by the [godly] lives of their wives, 1Pe 3:2  When they observe the pure and modest way in which you conduct yourselves, together with your reverence [for your husband; you are to feel for him all that reverence includes: to respect, defer to, revere him—to honor, esteem, appreciate, prize, and, in the human sense, to adore him, that is, to admire, praise, be devoted to, deeply love, and enjoy your husband].

1Pe 3:3  Let not yours be the [merely] external adorning with [elaborate] interweaving and knotting of the hair, the wearing of jewelry, or changes of clothes; 1Pe 3:4  But let it be the inward adorning and beauty of the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible and unfading charm of a gentle and peaceful spirit, which [is not anxious or wrought up, but] is very precious in the sight of God.

In the end I concluded that God could have saved hubby any time he wanted to.  It took Him 4 years to remake me into the kind of wife that hubby needed.!!!

 

[SurrenderedWife]

1 hour ago, Willa said:

The bottom line is does he need his sins forgiven?   There is no other way that it can be done but through Jesus' death on the cross, taking the punishment that he deserves.  It's God's way or the highway, so to speak.  The word says it is a fool who says in his heart there is no God.  

It is most often plain ugly pride that keeps people from receiving Christ.  They think they are too intelligent, or that they are in a better class of people, or people only do that because they need a crutch and they don't need any help, and finally, they are just as good as the next guy.  One lady even said that we would have to wait and see if the good outweighs the bad.  That is how the heathen think.  

1Co 1:26  For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

1Co 1:27  But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;  1Co 1:28  and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,  1Co 1:29  that no flesh should glory in His presence.

I was guided to 1 Peter 3 and was told that he would be won without a word--no debating or arguing, no preaching.  That only resulted in him tearing up my bibles.  It was Just by my change in attitude as you have also seen.

1Pe 3:1 AMP.   IN LIKE manner, you married women, be submissive to your own husbands [subordinate yourselves as being secondary to and dependent on them, and adapt yourselves to them], so that even if any do not obey the Word [of God], they may be won over not by discussion but by the [godly] lives of their wives, 1Pe 3:2  When they observe the pure and modest way in which you conduct yourselves, together with your reverence [for your husband; you are to feel for him all that reverence includes: to respect, defer to, revere him—to honor, esteem, appreciate, prize, and, in the human sense, to adore him, that is, to admire, praise, be devoted to, deeply love, and enjoy your husband].

1Pe 3:3  Let not yours be the [merely] external adorning with [elaborate] interweaving and knotting of the hair, the wearing of jewelry, or changes of clothes; 1Pe 3:4  But let it be the inward adorning and beauty of the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible and unfading charm of a gentle and peaceful spirit, which [is not anxious or wrought up, but] is very precious in the sight of God.

In the end I concluded that God could have saved hubby any time he wanted to.  It took Him 4 years to remake me into the kind of wife that hubby needed.!!!

 

Hmmmm I think it's both your husband's resistance and your growth in the Lord. I don't think your husband would be prevented from the Lord just for your sake.

I can sympathise with Christians (guys especially) looking dorky. As far as "1Co 1:26  For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called." hubby definitely feels mighty and noble, and I reinforce it with my admiration!  Is he then not called? I sure want him to be, selfishly, because I want a great mighty Christian husband. My husband's already transforming to care more about laying down his life for the sake of future generations, and is well-acquainted with righteous anger (against the wickedness in this world). My reassurance is in people like Saul, who my hubby reminds me of, and I can imagine him becoming like our Christian Paul after he finds Jesus. I'm so very curious to see what he would be like as a born-again Christian.  

Scriptures seem to suggest it's not up to me to convict him of his sin, but it's all on the Holy Spirit to reveal to him where he falls short and perhaps bring him to a point where he needs a Saviour. There are so many ways the Lord could win him over - perhaps he will be loved to Christ.  I think you talked about yourself when you said "I was guided to 1 Peter 3" but I felt convicted anyway. :P Current plan is to put whatever Christian materials I gathered into a computer folder that hubby can access, and leave it up to him to seek out things if and when he feels the pull to, and comment when he feels like it. The only requirement is to tell me the moment he accepts Jesus.

Could you help me understand "no preaching?". I sometimes share a discovery I made about God - e.g. My hubby and I found it problematic that God asked Abraham to sacrifice his SON as an offering. It seemed unfair and disgusting. Then I learned and shared with hubby that worshippers of other gods were sacrificing their kids at the time when God called Abraham to sacrifice his, BUT at the end God showed he was DIFFERENT from and BETTER than other gods by providing an offering himself... and that was a foreshadowing that God would offer up HIMSELF - God birthed into a body of a man and God himself suffering our punishments, sacrificing HIMSELF for our sake!" 

Another example is  "Wow, if we think about it, would we really have made the world any different? Would we really remove choice, evil, challenges, trials, mysteries?" I kind of feel like at least he's getting educated, lol, since his comments typically show he's at least got the milk of the Word. He's typically in the middle of something when I share it so it's hard to gauge his reaction. Perhaps I should save it all for dinner conversation, or is it 'preaching' and not helpful?

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by SurrenderedWife

[nobleseed]

On 8/25/2019 at 6:59 PM, SurrenderedWife said:

I came back to Jesus about 5 weeks ago. My unsaved husband contemplated if he should divorce me before we start a family and get our kids involved in what was already a conflicted marriage.
A couple weeks ago, he committed to staying with me and actually said he prefers me being a Christian because he saw 1) I complain much less 2)I seem happier 3)Not suicidal or anxious 4)We no longer get into arguments over things we used to since we got together. He watched a very compelling history of believers, new world order bible versions, Bible movies etc. and asked me about church, hearing very compelling things... BUT his intellect is too sharp for me now.

3 years ago I was able to debate him on over 100 different reasons he was convinced the Bible wasn't true, but he was not convinced then despite what I thought were incredibly inspired responses on my part. Eventually he convinced ME to stop believing for 3 most awful years where everything was falling apart in our home and our lives (despite us living incredibly healthy lifestyles). I turned to Jesus in desperation, but he thinks he's been improving and doing well for himself so had no such need. The compelling case for the Bible, after countless hours of searching for God, and personal experiences of God's voice and my transformation are enough for me to believe without needing to have all my questions answered. Not so for my husband. He still presents thorough intellectual challenges to the Bible that no one around us is willing or able to take on.

His heart wants to believe, but his ravenous intellect is stopping him. I'm still trying to find answers because I love him and don't want him to perish, and he reiterates that he doesn't feel preached at all and I haven't put him off. Whenever I found an answer though, he just tears it apart and makes all preachers seem like liars. :( He seems to have very good discernment when it comes to Godly and ungodly things, and with his many abilities could be one of the greatest men of God of our age. It seems a waste for him to not believe before rapture, or to die before saving and edifying many souls for the Lord....instead standing before the throne with heavy condemnation for continually rejecting God's call. I can't find any advice on how to bring a sharp-witted sceptical husband to the Lord. Could anyone advise?

I could paste the 9 pages of 'problems' he has with the Bible, but may bring them up in 'Apologetics' one at a time.

 

have u ever heard of john lennox, a christian apologist whos also a scientist, he often debates richard dawkins, look him up on youtube and show him to u husband as an example of how intellect and belief go hand in hand.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been praying throughout, including before, mid and post-conversations. Others are praying too.

 

[Debp]

53 minutes ago, SurrenderedWife said:

Could you help me understand "no preaching?"

Hi Surrendered Wife.

I think sharing and even discussing as you are doing is ok.   The no preaching that we are talking about is when some Christians get too pushy with others.   If one gets too pushy, it can often turn people away from the faith.    Share naturally.   

[R. Hartono]

Weren't we all also too smart to believe be4 we repent ?

[Blood Bought 1953]

People need to answer this question for themselves .....Did Jesus walk out of that tomb?Everything hinges on this.If Jesus did not rise from the dead He is a liar, best to be ignored .BUT.......If the One who said he would be  killed and said plainly that he would  be resurrected —- if He did what He claimed to do—- Somebody like that MUST be heard.......at the least.

[SurrenderedWife]

48 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

Weren't we all also too smart to believe be4 we repent ?

It's a miracle, but I believed the moment I heard the gospel, without any evidence or proof. It was the next 10 years that I wrestled with intellectual doubts.  Most stories of belief I hear are of people suddenly being overcome by a revelation or experience of Jesus and trusting like a child.
And it seems repentance follows?

[Still Alive]

On 8/25/2019 at 4:59 AM, SurrenderedWife said:

I could paste the 9 pages of 'problems' he has with the Bible, but may bring them up in 'Apologetics' one at a time.

I also have a lot of problems with language translations/interpretations in all English versions of the bible, not to mention the false teaching that often goes along with it. Before I was a Christian I was an "intellectual agnostic", which seems to match your husband.

I'd start here: https://drmsh.com, and then go to the web page in my signature.

This is exactly what the "smart" guy needs. Your intellect will not bring you to Christ, necessarily, but it can sure be a barrier. Too many of us "worship" our own intellect.

And for listening while I drive, this is excellent: https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/

And this gets to the heart of it: https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/newstarthere/

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

You did not believe the Gospel at one point .You had a “ change of mind” .You went from NOT believing to believing.That is the Repentance God requires .....the Turning to God with faith in Jesus....a PROFOUND CHANGE  in your thinking that has the power to happen ONE TIME and divide your life into two halves.As a Believer, God puts His Spirit in you and you will have a new sensitivity to sinning.Sorrow and regret over things you previously were not concerned  about. That is another type of repentance that depends on how well you obey the promptings of the Holy Spirit.This type of repentance can happen many times....it is different from the “ mind change” where you “ changed your mind” about the Gospel Of Jesus that got you into the Body Of Christ.Notice, you don’t “ clean up the house”, which is what some people take repentance for.You simply  turn to God as a lost sinner who has given up all hope of trying to “ do it yourself” and invite Him in.HE will “clean the house”— not you! The only hitch? You have to trust Him. 

 

[SurrenderedWife]

19 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

You simply  turn to God as a lost sinner who has given up all hope of trying to “ do it yourself” and invite Him in.HE will “clean the house”— not you! The only hitch? You have to trust Him. 

Hehe that's the part I still struggle to understand. The Holy Spirit prompts me, but it's up to me to take the action. I have to consciously stop a thought, look away or towards, stop sinning or start doing righteousness.

As regarding the process of salvation... it's hard to trust a memory from so long ago but I recall believing that I'm separated from God by the immoral things I've done, that I will be in a bad place without God here and especially after I die, and that he paid the price of it for me on the cross and I just have to believe and accept. I think they explained it all really well in a way that it made sense to a newbie like me, and I was convicted that it was true. When I believed, I felt ashamed that I had done those things and hurt God, and a desire was born to turn from my old ways. Tears trickled down my faith for the sadness and the joy. Even though I was talked out of the faith just as quickly, the Holy Spirit was still there, slowly revealing things to me. Once I really delved into the Word, and learned the law, then I really saw the depth of my sin and had a full-blown repentance. As in, it's possible to believe without "giving up all hope of doing it all (i.e. being self-reliant for your life on Earth?) yourself"?

When I hear the testimony of unbelievers, they seem to become progressively more open until they have some sort of experience or flash of insight and then the veil is lifted - they finally see Jesus as He is and accept Him. Then they are sorry for having persecuted and rejected Christ - like Paul? I believe he believed before he repented? I suppose it doesn't matter if they more or less happen together. I think my point is irrelevant - too tired as I should be asleep.  I guess I'll keep the writeup lol.

Edited August 26, 2019 by SurrenderedWife