The Seven Heads of Daniel 7 and Rev. 17

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Seems you are catholic, for you said in a post above that the Beast of the sea is God erroneously, may be your God. 

Actually the very Old and satanic and idolater and blasphemer Beast of the sea, is really the Papacy, with his 7 heads, and 10 horns, today represented by the 265th Pope, the Pope Francis, enthroned in the Vatican City, the ruler and guide of the universal Roman Catholic Church that is the Great Whore, which rides upon the Beast, the Pope. 

The Lord said: "he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord.

I hoped to have a reply that was true and based in the written Word of God, for the testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy.

And what I see is the literal fulfilment of the Word of God that says that no man knows the things of God, but the Spirit of God.  In your interpretations you stand here in defense of the Beast by denying the Truth.  God is Truth.

I am NOT Catholic, never have been and never will be: I am just a born again saint.  What I said was YOU seem to think the Beast of the Sea will be Catholic. And I replied that is why I wrote MYTH. The chances are far far better that the Beast of the sea - actually the man of sin turned Beast - will be Muslim, and will turn the world into one, huge, Islamic kingdom. And he, the Beast, will declare HE is God. The false prophet will have lying miracles to "proof" the beast is God.

Actually the very Old and satanic and idolater and blasphemer Beast of the sea, is really the Papacy  I will say it again: this theory is MYTH. What? Do you imagine that the REAL Messiah will return to the Vatican? Not ever - NEVER. The real Messiah will return to JERUSALEM. Where they do you think the false messiah would go? To the Vatican? NEVER! They go to Jerusalem.

Now let's look at the 7 heads today:

Egypt: is it Catholic or is it Muslim?

Syria: is it mostly Catholic, or is it Muslim?

Babylon or Iraq: is it mostly Catholic or is it mostly Muslim?

So is the Vatican here "the truth?" It is very very very very very doubtful.

Iran: (Persia) is it mostly Catholic or is it mostly Muslim?

Rome - one out of seven - and then only PARTS of Rome today are somewhat Catholic. Tiny parts are mostly Catholic.

The nations that surround Israel not previously mentioned: are they mostly Muslim or mostly CAtholic?

Are you getting the picture yet?

Your theory is MYTH.

[Diaste]

I guess I'm a little late to this one.

I don't get how either Egypt or Syria has anything to do with this as they are not mentioned in Dan 2, or anywhere regarding this prophecy. 

I guess ruling over Israel isn't the common denominator.

[Sister]

On 7/3/2020 at 4:53 PM, Diaste said:

I guess I'm a little late to this one.

I don't get how either Egypt or Syria has anything to do with this as they are not mentioned in Dan 2, or anywhere regarding this prophecy. 

I guess ruling over Israel isn't the common denominator.

Hi Diaste

Egypt was the first kingdom of man.

Assyria was the second kingdom (not Syria)

Babylon was the third kingdom.

The image in Dan 2 starts from the third kingdom of man, Babylon. 

Daniel prophesied to King Neb of Babylon during his reign and prophesied of the kingdoms that would come after him, going right unto the last one (10 toes of iron and clay)

When we go to Rev 13, the beast with the seven heads, we must include those two kingdoms before Babylon - Egypt & Assyria, because those first two kingdoms played a big role in the succession of empires until the end.

[Diaste]

11 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hi Diaste

Egypt was the first kingdom of man.

Assyria was the second kingdom (not Syria)

Babylon was the third kingdom.

The image in Dan 2 starts from the third kingdom of man, Babylon. 

Daniel prophesied to King Neb of Babylon during his reign and prophesied of the kingdoms that would come after him, going right unto the last one (10 toes of iron and clay)

When we go to Rev 13, the beast with the seven heads, we must include those two kingdoms before Babylon - Egypt & Assyria, because those first two kingdoms played a big role in the succession of empires until the end.

But where is the biblical evidence? In the end time scenario of Revelation nothing even hints at Egypt or Assyria. Nothing in Daniel does concerning the beasts or the statue. Really then the Babylonian kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar is the 1st, not the 3rd.

[Justin Adams]

Starting off with Jashur, the Sumerian King List mentions how he ruled for 1,200 years. After him, Kullassina-bel ruled for 960 years, Nangishlishma ruled over Kish for 670 years, his reign was followed by En-tarah-ana who ruled for 420 years, Babum ruled for 300 years, Puannum for 840 years, Kalibum ruled for 960 years, he was succeeded by Kalumum who reigned for 840 years, then Zuqaqip ruled for 900 years, Atab ruled for 600 years, Mashda, who was the son of Atab ruled for 840 years, Arwium, the son of Mashda reigned for 720 years and then came Etana, who is referred to as the “the shepherd, who ascended to heaven and consolidated all the foreign countries,” he ruled for 1,500 years. The son of Etana Balih ruled for 400 years, En-me-nuna ruled after Balih for 660 years, his son Melem-Kish ruled for 900 years after which his brother Barsal-nuna ruled for 1,200 years. Zamzug ruled over Kish for 140 years, Tizqar who was the sun of Zamug ruled for 305 years, Ilku ruled for 900 years, and he was succeeded by Iltasadum who ruled for 1,200 years. En-me-barage-si—he “who made the land of Elam submit” ruled for 900 years, and his sun Aga of Kish ruled for 625 years, and then Kish was defeated and the kingship was taken to E-ana.”

Etana, also known as the shepherd is regarded by some as the first king and founder of the ancient city of Kish.

The first archaeologically confirmed ruler of Kish was En-me-barage-si. He is believed to have captured the weapons of Elam, and in different literary references, he and his son Aga of Kish are portrayed as contemporary rivals of Dumuzid, the Fisherman, and Gilgamesh, early rulers of Uruk.

Read Josephus’ brief account:

Now the sons of Noah, Shem, Japheth, and Ham were the first of all descended from the mountains into the plains, and fixed their habitation there and persuaded others who were greatly afraid of the lower grounds on account of the flood, and so were very slow to come down from the higher places, to venture to follow their examples.”(Antiquities of the Jews I, IV, 1.)

Now, from Shem, Ham, and Japheth sprang Noah’s sixteen grandsons– and their sixteen family names illustrate all the general types of people found in the world today! Since it is important to be familiar with these names, they should be listed here. Shem had five sons: Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram. Ham had four: Cush, Mizraim, Phut, and Canaan. And Japheth had the most sons of all, Seven: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.

Berossus, ancient Babylonian historian and contemporary of Manetho, wrote of events immediately following the Flood. In his discussion of the family of Noah he states; “Now they knew their wives, who, on the very day expected regularly brought forth twins of different sexes; afterwards, when these twins had grown to years of puberty, and married, they also had twins at each birth.”

Edited July 4, 2020 by Justin Adams

[abcdef]

39 minutes ago, Diaste said:

But where is the biblical evidence? In the end time scenario of Revelation nothing even hints at Egypt or Assyria. Nothing in Daniel does concerning the beasts or the statue. Really then the Babylonian kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar is the 1st, not the 3rd.

The 7 heads are all part of one city, Rome, not 7 different cities.

The beast of Rev 17 is the 4th beast of Dan. 2 and Dan. 7.

The 7 heads represent the lifetime of the 4th beast, the Roman Empire.

When the 7th head dies, the beast dies, and the Roman Empire did die in 476 AD.

Then the 8th head was revealed as the Vatican, the image empire.

----

The vision of Rev 17 covers thousands of years.

The idea that the 8th head is only 3 1/2 literal years is not shown here.

The image shows that the 8th head rules over the people of Israel from the end of the Roman Empire until Jerusalem is restored, 1500 years approx.. 

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

The 7 heads are all part of one city, Rome, not 7 different cities.

The beast of Rev 17 is the 4th beast of Dan. 2 and Dan. 7.

The 7 heads represent the lifetime of the 4th beast, the Roman Empire.

When the 7th head dies, the beast dies, and the Roman Empire did die in 476 AD.

Then the 8th head was revealed as the Vatican, the image empire.

----

The vision of Rev 17 covers thousands of years.

The idea that the 8th head is only 3 1/2 literal years is not shown here.

The image shows that the 8th head rules over the people of Israel from the end of the Roman Empire until Jerusalem is restored, 1500 years approx.. 

Rome has nothing to do with the end of the age prophecy. The iron kingdom is not named and Rome did not succeed Greece of Alexander. 

[Sister]

42 minutes ago, Diaste said:

But where is the biblical evidence? In the end time scenario of Revelation nothing even hints at Egypt or Assyria. Nothing in Daniel does concerning the beasts or the statue. Really then the Babylonian kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar is the 1st, not the 3rd.

Diaste

This is how I see it.

The evidence is in the OT, with some details of history. 

We had Babel, but Babel was all one people, one language. 

After Babel, the languages were divided, so each group ventured out and claimed new lands, hence the emergence of new nations.  Egypt came up strong and became the first advanced civilization.  The hub of the world.  Egypt must of been weakened when God delivered the Hebrew captives, as the Pharoah's armies were killed in the Red Sea.  Next Assyria came up strong expanding its borders, but Babylon later conquered them.  Babylon ruled, but then was conquered by the Medo-Persians who was conquered by Grecia.  Out of Alexander's 4 generals, the Roman Empire came up.

So the heads on the beast in Revelation just show the overall picture of these kingdoms from the first to the last.  In Rev 17, it is revealed that these 7 heads are 7 'mountains' on which the woman sits.  'Mountains' represent "kingdoms.  So the 7 'kings' represent kingdoms, because each kingdom had more than one king ruling during their reign.

Daniel chapter 2 doesn't hint at Egypt or Assyria because those kingdoms are not in power anymore.  They have come and gone.  Daniel points forwards to the kingdoms that will come after Babylon, because he is prophesying future, and not giving a history lesson.

Nebuchadnezzar is the FIRST kingdom on the statue (the head), because his dream concerned him as he was ruling at the time, ...but in reality, his kingdom was the 3rd great kingdom to come up, ...but like the others before him, his kingdom would not rule forever.

So without the kingdom of Egypt and Assyria, the interpretation of the seven heads in Rev would go way off course.  It's important for us to know because the Whore has been ruling over all these kingdoms since the beginning.  This is when peoples and small nations started trading merchandise with each other, and of course the leading empires, would desire and acquire most of the world's wealth.

 

[Diaste]

2 minutes ago, Sister said:

Out of Alexander's 4 generals, the Roman Empire came up.

Inaccurate. The Diadochi are Greece (Macedonia), Egypt, Asia Minor, Mideast.

Rome was barely more than state in 330 BC, fighting for its life with local tribes and factions in Italy. 

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Really then the Babylonian kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar is the 1st, not the 3rd.

Nebuchadnezzar is the first to conquer Jerusalem and the destroy the temple. 

As God revealed His plan of restoration starting at the Garden, Satan responded.  At first, all Satan knew was that it would come through the seed of a woman.  So, he set in motion a plan to destroy the seed of women through the sons of God marrying the daughters of men.  Then came the flood.  Then God revealed to Abraham that through his seed the nations would be blessed, then Isaac, then Jacob.  Satan then focused on the sons of Israel by subjugating them.  It began with Egypt and then Assyria.  Then God revealed that the Lion would come from the tribe of Judah.

The Revelation 12 narrative shows Satan with seven heads ready to destroy the manchild when born.  The heads correspond to kingdoms used to subjugate the children of Israel.  After the seed of Abraham was born of a woman, Satan himself tried to destroy Jesus by entering Judas, the only recorded time that he has entered a human.