The Two Witnesses

[WilliamL]

On 8/25/2020 at 2:31 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

On 8/25/2020 at 11:08 AM, WilliamL said:

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Just like the two witnesses will do.

But  Jesus turned and rebuked them. 

https://biblehub.com/luke/9-55.htm

It's a good thing for Jesus's disciples listen to Jesus and do what he tells them. Don't you agree? 

 

Or do you feel they should do the apposite of what Jesus tells them like the two witnesses do? 

Jesus first came as the humble Lamb of sacrifice. The second time he will come as the avenging Lion.

John got the order wrong the first time. The second time he will do what he thought he was to do the first time; this time it will be the right thing.

Remember, Jesus named John and his brother "Sons of Thunder" (Mk. 3:17). Not a term of mildness of manner.

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Jesus first came as the humble Lamb of sacrifice. The second time he will come as the avenging Lion.

John got the order wrong the first time. The second time he will do what he thought he was to do the first time; this time it will be the right thing.

Remember, Jesus named John and his brother "Sons of Thunder" (Mk. 3:17). Not a term of mildness of manner.

So Jesus changed his mind and now he wants his disciples to kill whomever we feel is our enemies? 

Can we torment them before we kill them? 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[Dennis1209]

On 8/20/2020 at 8:50 AM, DeighAnn said:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

By that logic, how would one explain those resurrected in the Bible that had to have physically died 'twice'? I'm no expert but, it appears to me from the language of Hebrews 9: 27, is for those who will appear before the Great White Throne judgment? Christians will appear before the Bema seat of Christ, not for judgment, but to give an account of ourselves and life, actions, fruits, deeds, inaction, etc., and receive our crowns and heavenly rewards provided we earned any?

The generation of born again believers at the Rapture will not taste the sting of physical death. The Bible is loaded with types, shadows, symbolism such as Enoch, Noe, Numbers 21: 9, leading to the most passionate verses in the Bible; John 3: 14-18, etc. 

The Lord saw fit to not name who those two witnesses are, we can only speculate. If they are two former men; based on the powers given them, who appeared with Jesus at His transfiguration, what they may have talked about, have witnessed, are witnessing, and were transported forward in time. It could be Moses and Elijah, with Enoch being a shadow / type of being rescued from the impending judgment [flood]. 

Then again, I've read some convincing arguments that these two witnesses could be one [or a group] from the Jew's [Old Testament] and one [or a group] from the church age? I personally don't rightly know but, I still cling to my traditional view of 'two men', whomever they turn out to be. 

[Leonardo Von]

On 8/19/2020 at 11:10 PM, Adam999 said:

During the End-Time, the two witnesses will appear. Who are they?

They are two people which will come in the spirit and power of Elijah and Moses, such as John, the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17).

[abcdef]

The two witnesses are the people of Israel who are imaged as the Law and the Prophets.

They are witnessing in Jerusalem restored to the people of Israel right now.

In the coming time they will be killed and Jerusalem will fall.

Then after 3 1/2 days Jesus will come for the kingdom.

After that, this planet is burnt toast.

 

[Resurrection Priest]

Who are the Two Witnesses?

I believe the Two Witnesses will be the church of Smyrna (the martyrs) and the church of Philadelphia (brotherly love) of Revelation.  Those two were the only churches that did NOT receive the warning that their "candlestick" would be removed if they did not repent.

7 Churches,  minus 5,  =2 left as the last shining witnesses.

They have the power of the Spirit for witness.  
Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me . . ."

They have the Elijah message and the Moses message.  

Moses - turned water to blood.  Elijah - shut up the rain for 3.5 years.  

Daniel 12:7 "And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished." (ESV)

The "power" of the holy people is the power of the Holy Spirit - for witness.

The Beast/Little Horn will persecute the people of God for their witness (for 42months/3.5years/1260days) leading up to the Glorious Return of Christ to crush that power.  It will be burned in fire.

The Moses Message:  Moses “message” to Pharoah?  “Thus says the LORD: ‘Let My people go, that they may serve Me.’”  I believe the last two witnesses will say this to the ruling Beast power, and its “little horn”.   

The Elijah Message:    “How long will you falter between two opinions?  If the LORD is God, follow Him; but if Baal, then follow him” (I Kings 18:21). 

They prophesy in sackcloth

Revelation 11:3-12  “And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.

        Sackcloth was the traditional sign of mourning - in Ancient Israel.  The two witnesses, prophesy in sackcloth, because this will be a time of great persecution, with God's people suffering.

 

 

   

[Jaydub]

On 8/20/2020 at 10:04 PM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

My best guess is Elijah and Enoch.  Just because they were taken and never saw death.  If you read the book of Enoch he has a lot to say about the Last Days and to me he fits the bill.   I dont think it would be Moses because Moses died and for him to be resurrected would mean we would have to die a second death which sort of goes against scriptures.

People often say this, but what do you say about all the others who died and were raised, they all  died a second time.

Jesus raised people one in Luke 8 and Lazarus, We see it again with Peter and Paul, both are recorded as praying for the dead and them coming back to life

Matthew 27 tells us that when Jesus gave up his spirit, the veil was torn, the earth quaked and graves were opened and the bodies of many holy people who had died came out of the tomb

 saying that, I don't believe it is Moses either

 

[Sister]

Hebrews 9:27   And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

This is the general rule, with a few exceptions of those like lazarus.   Lazarus would of died again and the others like him. 

Some will not even die once but will be quickened at the Coming, so that general rule doesn't apply to them.

Enoch and Elijah are the only ones who never died.  They will receive their first death when the beast kills them.

To me it makes sense.  The two witnesses are men and are prophets.  They are not any church.  We are going to see some marvelous things happening in the near future.

[luigi]

On 8/19/2020 at 10:10 PM, Adam999 said:

During the End-Time, the two witnesses will appear. Who are they?
 

To my understanding, they are the Jews and Gentiles.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Adam

In any story there is something referred to as context. The two witnesses are testifying to what will be going on around them and the world when the beast rises from the bottomless pit. The beast rises from the bottomless pit in Revelation 9, after 1/3 of earths natural resources have been destroyed in Revelation 8. It therefore makes sense that the two witnesses who are testifying about circumstances around them (that the inhabitants of the earth do not want to hear (Revelation 11:10)), is in reference to mans love for the things his hands produce (Revelation 9:20) that are destroying the earth, to which the Lord upon His return, will then commence the destruction of those who have been destroying the earth (Revelation 11:18).

 Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

[Jaydub]

On 8/19/2020 at 10:10 PM, Adam999 said:

To my understanding, they are the Jews and Gentiles.

I believe this to be true. Revelation is filled with symbolism, yet when we talk about the two witnesses we seldom talk about symbolism in the chapter

Rev 11

 ⁴ These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. ⁵ And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; and so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way. 

They are the two olive trees, who are the two olive trees 

Romans 11

¹⁷ But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the ^[j]rich root of the olive tree,

Israel is the natural olive tree and believing gentiles the wild olive tree grafted in

We also have the two lampstands, which earlier in Revelation, the 7 churches are call the 7 lampstands. We are called to be the light of the world so its not un reasonable to see a possible connection between believers and the lampstands and the olive trees

I believe in Zechariah 4, it pulls this thought together

Zechariah 4

. ² And he said to me, “What do you see?” And I said, “I see, and behold, a lampstand all of gold with its bowl on the top of it, and its seven lamps on it with seven ^[a]spouts belonging to each of the lamps which are on the top of it; ³ also two olive trees by it, one on the right side of the bowl and the other on its left side.” 

“What are the two olive ^[branches which are beside the two golden pipes, which empty the golden oil from themselves?” ¹³ So he answered me, saying, “Do you not know what these are?” And I said, “No, my lord.” ¹⁴ Then he said, “These are the two ^[anointed ones, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth.”

Here we have a picture of the two olive trees pouring their golden oil into the lampstands. Its a picture of endless light. the olive oil, the golden oil  runs from the olive tree directly to the lamps. I see this as a picture of the gospel the holy Spirit going out to the world. We are the light. We are to preach his word and to tie this together we have

Rev 11

5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; and so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way

and look at  what

Jerimiah has to say

¹⁴ Therefore, this is what the Lord, the God of armies says:
“Because you have spoken this word,
Behold, I am making My words fire in your mouth,
And this people wood, and it will consume them.

We are the light of the world, speaking his words, which are like a fire coming from our mouths to consume his enemies. We are his witnesses, we are to speak his word through out the world to bring sinner to the Father