Why can’t the CHURCH be in part of the 70th week?

[luigi]

Does anyone here honestly believe the sacrifice that is cut off in the middle of the seven year period is an animal sacrifice? Even if animal sacrifices were reinstated, do you honestly believe the Lord cares about animal sacrifices being halted? This is so totally kindergarten to believe.

Try this on for a more logical assessment of the data available. In Daniel 11, there is an entity referred to as the Northern Kingdom who desolates much of the Middle East, including the land of Israel. This prince for the Northern kingdom who does as he wills, pollutes the sanctuary of strength, taking away the daily sacrifice, and placing the abomination that makes desolate (Daniel 11:31). This prince is therefore the same prince in Daniel 9:26-27, who destroys/desolates the city and sanctuary (of strength), and who in the middle of the week causes the sacrifice to cease. When putting these data together, the sacrifice the prince shall put to an end (which are his desolations) is that of human lives being killed on a daily basis. Now take a look at Isaiah 28:18-20, when an overflowing scourge shall pass through, the lives of Israelis will be trodden down. The overflowing scourge shall pass over, morning after morning, by day and by night, with those in Judea unable to run and hide due to Israel's Northern to Southern borders being too short to disperse upon, and its Eastern to Western borders too narrow to find cover from the daily aerial sorties. The daily sacrifice the prince of the Northern kingdom shall put to an end in the middle of his seven year reign is the daily death count in the Middle East from his aerial sorties.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. 19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. 20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

[The Light]

5 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

The Cyrus type being President Trump is according to the Jews, since he arranged for the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem, they have petitioned him to assist them in building the next Temple. That historically is what Cyrus did.

Trump is absolutely a Cyrus type. No question about it. He is here to help the nation of Israel in addition to helping America. But if you think that Trump is going to be the 8th King that is healed from a mortal wound, with a sword, you are mistaken. Trump is not the Antichrist.

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The king of the North (Daniel 11) is of the Seleucid Dynasty. Syria is to the North of Israel. Egypt is to the South, of the Ptolemaic Dynasty.

You need to cast off these teaching that have been around forever and a day. The king of the North will not come from the Seleucid Empire. Also, there is not even the slightest chance that Syria is the King of the North, nor is Egypt the King of the South. Do you really think that these are superpowers that have come against each other TWICE, and will come against each other again. Look around. Who do you think that the King of the North is?

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The lawless one of future, according to Daniel will arrive and broker a peace agreement "confirm a covenant with many for one week", aka the 7yr Tribulation. Then in the middle of that week/7yrs, cause the daily sacrifices to cease when he takes the seat in the Temple and declares himself to be God.

The daily sacrifice will be taken away in the MIDST of the week, on day 1185. The abomination of desolation will not be set up until day 2475.

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We know from a well known actress that the New Age teaches it's adherents that they are a god. We also know from history, and from the Bible, that the pagan myth religions of Rome and Greece had emperors who called themselves gods.

Yes, Cesare was considered God on earth and that distinction was transferred to the Pontifex Maximus of the Roman Church. And yes, Alexander the Great was considered God on earth, as was the Pharaoh of Egypt and others also. These are not myth religions, they are false religions and their source is from Babylon. Babylon where Nimrod is the sun god, and Semiramis is the moon god and Tammuz is the star and the reincarnation of Nimrod. When Tammuz was killed by a wild boar, there became a 40 day time of weeping that is today known as Lent.

Eze 8

¹⁴ Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

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I agree that the "little horn" will become the leader of nations, but I specifically believe that he will come from one of the EU conglomerate.

You are confusing things. The prince that shall come is the 7th king that has two horns like a lamb. He is a king of the North. He will likely become the head of the United Nations as he is given the stephanos crown. The little horn is the eighth king and is of the seven. The eighth king will be head of the world wide 10 kings.

Neither the 7th or 8th kings comes from the EU. This is another old teaching that has been passed down. It comes from this verse.

Dan 9

²⁶ And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

So goes the teaching that since the Romans destroyed the 2nd Temple that would mean that the Antichrist is a Roman. Completely wrong. The prince that shall come is A King of the North and the Temple that the people of the prince destroy is the 3rd Temple, not the 2nd Temple. So cast aside all the Roman stuff and read what the Word says.

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At a time when it's his turn to be President over the EU, he will have a workable solution concerning a then issue regarding the Jews of Israel. And so the EU and the UN make him their ruler over all the world. During that time he will get a mortal wound, die, then live again.

The mortal wound has already happened. We know that because the 8th king comes out of the bottomless pit.

Rev 17

⁸ The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

We also know that the Beast of the Sea, the eighth king WAS AND IS NOT at the time that Revelation was written.

Rev 17

¹⁰ And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

¹¹ And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

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At that time he'll go into the Temple and declare himself God. That is the abomination of desolation. The Jews will flee Jerusalem, and the Antichrist will rule like Nimrod did. That is the "he was, is not, and will come again".

The deadly wound has not already happened in this timeframe. These events I've outlined will happen during the 7yr Tribulation in our future. 

Nimrod is the Antichrist. He is the beast that was and is not that has the mortal wound of the sword and will live. He will be the eighth king that is of the seven. The Antichrist will come form the Seleucid Empire, as you mentioned. But he is not the King of the North as that is the 7th king. FYI, they found the tomb of Nimrod in northern Iraq in 2012. Northern Iraq is located in the area of the Seleucid Empire. You ought to be able to do the math from here.

Edited September 8, 2020 by The Light

[Joulre2abba]

The Light: Trump is absolutely a Cyrus type. No question about it. He is here to help the nation of Israel in addition to helping America.

But if you think that Trump is going to be the 8th King that is healed from a mortal wound, with a sword, you are mistaken. Trump is not the Antichrist. You need to cast off these teaching that have been around forever and a day.

You write a lot like Revelation Man does. Did either of you teach the other?

I did not at any time say or hint that Trump was going to be the Antichrist. You've made a mistake in thinking that I have.

Calling Trump "a Cyrus type" does not automatically make him "the lawless one". The biblical lawless one, the son of perdition, according to 2Thes.2 cannot even be revealed until after "He that restrains is taken out of the way" then the lawless one, is the only one who will be revealed, the only one who can become the Antichrist.

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The Light: You need to cast off these teaching that have been around forever and a day.

I can't cast off what I'm not saying in the first place.

The Light: The king of the North will not come from the Seleucid Empire.

I've said that it's my speculation that the lawless one will come from one of the EU nations. You are the one that is obsessed that the king of the North will have something to do with it, so you are only correcting yourself.

Also, there is not even the slightest chance that Syria is the King of the North, nor is Egypt the King of the South. Do you really think that these are superpowers that have come against each other TWICE, and will come against each other again. Look around. Who do you think that the King of the North is?

You tell me, you are the one who introduced them into the discussion. I only gave a quote as to who the king of the North is. That doesn't mean that I believe that he will be the Antichrist. That's your idea.

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The Light: The daily sacrifice will be taken away in the MIDST of the week, on day 1185. The abomination of desolation will not be set up until day 2475.

Your number 1185 isn't enough days to equal 1260 or 3.5 years. And your 2475 number goes beyond both numbers in the Daniel 12 text. So you need to explain why your numbers would be right.

The abomination of desolation will occur at the MIDST of the week.

Nothing new for me to know.

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The Light: Yes, Cesare was considered God on earth and that distinction was transferred to the Pontifex Maximus of the Roman Church. And yes, Alexander the Great was considered God on earth, as was the Pharaoh of Egypt and others also. These are not myth religions, they are false religions and their source is from Babylon.

Then inform the Bible scholars and many Christians who call them pagan myths. But a false religion would be, for instance, Buddhism.

The Light: Babylon where Nimrod is the sun god, and Semiramis is the moon god and Tammuz is the star and the reincarnation of Nimrod. When Tammuz was killed by a wild boar, there became a 40 day time of weeping that is today known as Lent.

Eze 8

14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

The Jewish Temple historically was in certain times controlled by pagans and their idols. As such were the youths who mocked the prophet in calling him baldhead.

__

The Light: You are confusing things. The prince that shall come is the 7th king that has two horns like a lamb. He is a king of the North.

Historically the Seleucid king was prior to Babylon, then Medio-Persia, then Greece, then Rome. The revived Rome being the EU. If you believe that it will be the king of the North then explain why.

He will likely become the head of the United Nations as he is given the stephanos crown. The little horn is the eighth king and is of the seven. The eighth king will be head of the world wide 10 kings.

Up until now you hadn't been so explicit until I said it first. All that you said previously was that it will be the king of the North. Full Stop. Revelation Man did that sort of thing too.

Neither the 7th or 8th kings comes from the EU. This is another old teaching that has been passed down. It comes from this verse.

Dan 9

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

That verse doesn't mention the king of the North at all. It does speak of a prince. Historically it was the Roman Emperor Titus in 70AD.

So goes the teaching that since the Romans destroyed the 2nd Temple that would mean that the Antichrist is a Roman. Completely wrong. The prince that shall come is A King of the North and the Temple that the people of the prince destroy is the 3rd Temple, not the 2nd Temple. So cast aside all the Roman stuff and read what the Word says.

So we are to cast aside history that tells us who destroyed the 2nd Temple because you say that it wasn't him that did it. Then you say that it will be the king of the North of the Seleucid Empire that will destroy the 3rd Temple. Even though the text of Daniel 9 doesn't say that it will be him. Even as you chide by saying "read what the Word says".

But your words in this discussion show that you are supplying what isn't in the text.

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The Light: The mortal wound has already happened. We know that because the 8th king comes out of the bottomless pit.

Rev 17

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

We also know that the Beast of the Sea, the eighth king WAS AND IS NOT at the time that Revelation was written.

Rev 17

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

The key words of the Bible, shall & yet will come, indicate that it has not happened yet, but to the contrary your words, already & yet is, state it as an accomplished fact.

The chapter 17 can't happen until first occurs chapters 4-5 in heaven then chapters 6-16 on the earth.

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The Light: Nimrod is the Antichrist.

You didn't mention Nimrod until after I did first.

He is the beast that was and is not that has the mortal wound of the sword and will live.

Not literally. It is appointed unto men once to die, and then the judgement. Nimrod will not be some zombie resurrected man returned to live in future as Antichrist. 

He will be the eighth king that is of the seven. The Antichrist will come form the Seleucid Empire, as you mentioned.

You are confusing what I said versus what you said. I said he'd come from the EU, you said he'd come from the Seleucid Empire.

But he is not the King of the North as that is the 7th king.

Now you contradict yourself. You said that he'd be the king of the North., now he say that he won't be.

FYI, they found the tomb of Nimrod in northern Iraq in 2012. Northern Iraq is located in the area of the Seleucid Empire. You ought to be able to do the math from here.

None of that is relevant to what I've said. I'm not accepting what you say. The EU is a conglomerate of nations with ten leaders, the EU calls itself a union but they have of late shown themselves to be separating like iron and clay. So far, Britain has severed itself from the EU. And Italy is rumored and reported to be next. There will remain to be just one more as described in Daniel concerning three that are rooted out.

Iraq is not a part of the EU nations. Iraq is geographically in the Middle East. They don't have an iron & clay situation. They don't have any ten leaders nor are any nations separating from them.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Joulre2abba

[Joulre2abba]

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[Spock]

10 hours ago, luigi said:

Does anyone here honestly believe the sacrifice that is cut off in the middle of the seven year period is an animal sacrifice? Even if animal sacrifices were reinstated, do you honestly believe the Lord cares about animal sacrifices being halted? This is so totally kindergarten to believe.

Try this on for a more logical assessment of the data available. In Daniel 11, there is an entity referred to as the Northern Kingdom who desolates much of the Middle East, including the land of Israel. This prince for the Northern kingdom who does as he wills, pollutes the sanctuary of strength, taking away the daily sacrifice, and placing the abomination that makes desolate (Daniel 11:31). This prince is therefore the same prince in Daniel 9:26-27, who destroys/desolates the city and sanctuary (of strength), and who in the middle of the week causes the sacrifice to cease. When putting these data together, the sacrifice the prince shall put to an end (which are his desolations) is that of human lives being killed on a daily basis. Now take a look at Isaiah 28:18-20, when an overflowing scourge shall pass through, the lives of Israelis will be trodden down. The overflowing scourge shall pass over, morning after morning, by day and by night, with those in Judea unable to run and hide due to Israel's Northern to Southern borders being too short to disperse upon, and its Eastern to Western borders too narrow to find cover from the daily aerial sorties. The daily sacrifice the prince of the Northern kingdom shall put to an end in the middle of his seven year reign is the daily death count in the Middle East from his aerial sorties.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. 19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. 20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

Luigi,

I will keep this simple....look at Antiochus Epiphames  for your answer. He was a foreshadow and type of Antichrist from around 165 BC.  Everything you want to know about the abomination is right there looking at you! 

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, Spock said:

Hi Marilyn,

honestly, your answer is not enough to convince me the church HAS TO BE REMOVED before the 70th week begins.

so far, the best answer for me has been, Israel will experience a partial hardening until the fullness of the Gentiles has come.  This could possibly mean, fullness of Gentiles saved, beamed out, and then God deals with Israel (and the world). 
 

IM NOT SURE THE 24 elders represent the church so that argument doesn’t wow me either. 
 

im still hoping and waiting someone could blow me away here so that I can be a card carrying pre 70th week rapture fanatic.

Hi Spock,

Thanks for your reply. Now have you seen my second comment on another post?

[luigi]

16 hours ago, Spock said:

Luigi,

I will keep this simple....look at Antiochus Epiphames  for your answer. He was a foreshadow and type of Antichrist from around 165 BC.  Everything you want to know about the abomination is right there looking at you! 

In contrast to your perspective Spock, I see the events in Daniel chapters 7 through 12 regarding primarily end time events, and not some barely known, insignificant 2nd century BC event. Why would the Lord give us these prophecies and seal the information until the end times, if they were in regards to some barely known, insignificant BC event? 

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Daniel 8:19  And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Edited September 9, 2020 by luigi

[Spock]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

In contrast to your perspective Spock, I see the events in Daniel chapters 7 through 12 regarding primarily end time events, and not some barely known, insignificant 2nd century BC event. Why would the Lord give us these prophecies and seal the information until the end times, if they were in regards to some barely known, insignificant BC event? 

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Daniel 8:19  And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

You may be right....I’m actually looking into Daniel 11 much closer now.  I am looking at other Possible interpretations/explanations for the meaning of Daniel 9:27.  So, I think I need to look at Daniel 11 much much closer.  
 

Because I have not been convinced the rapture has to precede the start of Daniels week and because I’m not 100% convinced when Jesus said, “when you see the abomination of desolation....” he was ONLY TALKING to Jews and not gentile believers, I am reevaluating my thinking and beliefs. So, I probably won’t be discussing much, reading more. 
 

thank you for your patience my brother, Luigi. 
spock

[Biblican]

Of course there will be Christians in that last week. After the rapture there will be many Christians left behind as only the Philadelphians are promised to be kept from the hour (Rev. 3:10).  The five remaining spiritual conditions that have errors  will not be gathered when the Lord calls them up, unless those errors are corrected. That's one reason why Jesus said we are to pray that we are worthy to escape. Those who have been left behind and survive will be gathered just before the Lord returns after the tribulation (Matthew 24:2931). This is the event that Paul describes in I Thessalonians 4:16 when the dead in Christ rise first. Many Christians confuse this event with the pre-trib rapture.

[luigi]

2 hours ago, Biblican said:

Of course there will be Christians in that last week. After the rapture there will be many Christians left behind as only the Philadelphians are promised to be kept from the hour (Rev. 3:10).  The five remaining spiritual conditions that have errors  will not be gathered when the Lord calls them up, unless those errors are corrected. That's one reason why Jesus said we are to pray that we are worthy to escape. Those who have been left behind and survive will be gathered just before the Lord returns after the tribulation (Matthew 24:2931). This is the event that Paul describes in I Thessalonians 4:16 when the dead in Christ rise first. Many Christians confuse this event with the pre-trib rapture.

Another way of looking at praying to be worthy to escape the things that are coming upon the whole earth is that people will be snared by hedonistic pleasure in the beasts system. It will be as the days of Noah and as in the days of Lot, people will be eating and drinking, and having rampant sex with each other. The whole world who are not written in the lambs book of life are not in adoration of the beasts system, without ample cause.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Edited September 9, 2020 by luigi