Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[other one]

I have three good sized books to review and I'll be away for a while.....

[missmuffet]

 

I don't think you want to go there (eternal security) on any other thread but that subject itself....   that thread is as long as this one if you can find it.   You might really want to start a new one if you want to discuss that subject.    but I can tell you that after five to six hundred posts it always comes down to whether or not a person was really saved or not and since no one but Jesus knows that for sure there is no end to that subject.

 

I've never seen a good end to a pre trib rapture thread either, but you guys can give it a shot if you desire.

 

I might suggest that people come to an agreement of what the tribulation really is that we are supposed to skip to make the discussion a little more on track.......   I have not seen a really good defination yet.   Some people think it's the seals and trumpets, some think it's the wrath of God and others think it's really the wrath of Satan when he's finally thrown down here and can't leave our deminsion.   

Okay, BTW I'm not even a Calvinist and i believe in eternal security! The Bible clearly teaches it and also that we can KNOW whether we are saved. 1John is all about that....

 

Never seen a good thread on pre trib? Consider that challenge accepted... No apology other one - when the time comes you're going UP !!!

 

I believe in OSAS too 

[missmuffet]

 

I don't think anybody likes the idea of the great tribulation. I know I don't. I would rather hear we a lifted up before the tribulation. Yes, that would be a comfort. The scriptures speaks of those standing before the throne crying out in a loud voice, "Salvation belongs  to our God, and to the lamb....these are the ones  who have come out of the great tribulation."  You can't come out of something, unless you went into it. The people of this world will hurt us, kill us, and do bad things I don't even want to think about to us. I do remember what Jesus said, "If they do this to me, what do you think they will do to you?"  This job of being a Christian is not an easy one...but did we not tell the ticket guy before we got on this train..."Please, give me a one way ticket to the end of the line." There is nothing between here, and there.

 

okay, long story short :

Its commonly misunderstood.. the 7 years is not called THE Great Tribulation or even THE Tribulation. < tribulation is a description not a title. (Christians certainly have tribulation)

But the title of the 7 years is found in Jermiah 30:7 - "THE Time of Jacobs Trouble" - Jacob being Israel

The focus is on Israel - Not the church.

 

 

I really wish I could believe in the pre trib rapture.....   would make life a bit easier.     but I'm spiritually prepared for whatever comes.   I'm getting too old to be physidally prepared for a whole lot

 

Sometimes I think we should go get fifteen years of survival food, paper towels and toilet paper and just go hide somewhere the water was good to drink.    but to so comfortably we'd need a CVS....   so   just 

 

You can.. I do and it still does not make life easier... I have tribulation! haha seriously tho... Where are we told to store up food for 3 and half or even 7 yrs?

Seems worldy to me.... We cannot take the mark of the beast.... during the 7 yrs or so it would be faith plus works.... which doesn;t work!!

So our eternal security would be threatened (yes eternal security)

 

The tribulation is called Jacob's trouble and the last 3 years of the tribulation the Great Wrath or the Great tribulation.

[ENOCH2010]

Let me go ahead and ask the new pre-trib believers, which resurrection is the rapture to happen with? The Bible teaches 2 resurrections of a large group of people to happen in the future, the first resurrection happens at the second coming of Christ, the second happens after the 1000 year reign. The Bible doesn't teach a pre-trib resurrection, so the Bible can't teach a pre-trib rapture.

[InSeasonOut]

 

"The tribulation is called Jacob's trouble and the last 3 years of the tribulation the Great Wrath or the Great tribulation."

 

I don't mean to put ya on the spot but i would love to see Scripture references concerning that.....

 

[InSeasonOut]

Let me go ahead and ask the new pre-trib believers, which resurrection is the rapture to happen with? The Bible teaches 2 resurrections of a large group of people to happen in the future, the first resurrection happens at the second coming of Christ, the second happens after the 1000 year reign. The Bible doesn't teach a pre-trib resurrection, so the Bible can't teach a pre-trib rapture.

 

Please confirm which Scriptures you are referencing.... Thanks!

[ENOCH2010]

Rev chapter 20

[domenic]

There is a video on you tube. The two pastors use the bible to clear up the subject. Others may find this of help understanding if the tribulation is pre- or not-pre.

 

Exposing the pre-tribulation rapture/ pastor Anderson, featuring kent Hovind.

[missmuffet]

 

 

"The tribulation is called Jacob's trouble and the last 3 years of the tribulation the Great Wrath or the Great tribulation."

 

I don't mean to put ya on the spot but i would love to see Scripture references concerning that.....

 

 

Jacob's trouble Jeremiah 30:7;Jeremiah 10-11.

The great tribulation the last 3 years Matthew 24:21

[Ezra]

Let me go ahead and ask the new pre-trib believers, which resurrection is the rapture to happen with? The Bible teaches 2 resurrections of a large group of people to happen in the future, the first resurrection happens at the second coming of Christ, the second happens after the 1000 year reign. The Bible doesn't teach a pre-trib resurrection, so the Bible can't teach a pre-trib rapture.

While the term "first resurrection" is used in connection with the Millennium, it actually includes (1) Christ the firstfruits, (2) then they that are Christ's at His coming and (3) then cometh the end (1 Cor 15:23,24). 

 

The first resurrection is akin to a harvest, with the firstfruits, the main harvest, and the gleanings.  The "gleanings" are the Tribulation Saints mentioned in Rev 20:4-6.  Please note carefully that ALL these saints were beheaded by the Beast (v. 4) therefore they cannot possibly represent the entire Church. 

 

The main harvest is at the Pre-Tribulation Rapture (1 Cor 15:51-57; 1 Thess 4:13-5:11), and this is a necessity because the Antichrist (the Beast) can only be manifested on earth when the Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way" (2 Thess 2:7) along with the saints within whom He dwells.  These saints have "come out of" (escaped from) the Great Tribulation (Rev 7:14) not gone through the Great Tribulation (as most erroneously believe).  Why?  Because they are "not appointed to wrath" (1 Thess 5:9,10).

 

If there is a first resurrection, then it follows that there must be a "second resurrection", which is called "the resurrection of damnation" (Jn 5:29) or "the resurrection of the unjust" (as opposed to "the just" -- those who are justified by grace).  This resurrection is revealed in Rev 20:11-15.  It is the resurrection of the damned before they are cast into the Lake of Fire.