antichrist Is the Man of Sin returning to POWER?

[Jonathan Dane]

19 hours ago, Diaste said:

Gotta chime in here. 

Seems to me there are several attributes the 'antichrist' must have according to scripture. 

I'm of the opinion the labels: little horn, beast, man of sin, willful king, etc., are all descriptions of the same person. On the lowest level of understanding I just don't think we are going to have multiple 'antichrists' all as chosen ones of Satan, all given power at the same time for the same ends, there's going to be just the one. 

That being said, we have scriptural evidence of many attributes and characteristics evident in this person Revelation has told us is the beast.

Daniel shows us a few in the interpretations by the Angel:

After them another king, different from the earlier ones, will rise and subdue three kings. 25He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the appointed times and laws; and the saints will be given into his hand for a time, and times, and half a time

Just here prophecy demands he must subdue 3 kings, oppress the saints, and change times and laws. It's hard to determine who this might be since the above must come to pass before identification, so far it has not.

The shaggy goat represents the king of Greece, and the large horn between his eyes is the first king. 22The four horns that replaced the broken one represent four kingdoms that will rise from that nation, but will not have the same power.

In the above we see the four horns replace Greece. Here, "From one of these horns a little horn emerged" the little horn arises from one of the four. History tells us the eventual disposition of Greece was divided into four regions: Greece, Egypt, Asia Minor and Mesopotamia. I agree with scripture, the little horn must rise from one of the above four. 

Then the king will do as he pleases and will exalt and magnify himself above every god, and he will speak monstrous things against the God of gods.

So far I have not heard a man speak like the above. I'm sure someone does, but even in my conversations with atheists I don't hear more than, "God doesn't exist." which is opinion. The person above is slandering God as if he knows God exists, and hates Him. 

He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and over all the riches of Egypt, and the Libyans and Cushitesj will also submit to him.

This is also a prophesied action, but it's future, when the self exalted king rules wide regions in the Mideast with great military power and apparently some furious need for vengeance or revenge. As far as I know none of the above has happened so it's impossible to pinpoint a single contemporary leader to fit all that.

Paul says something as well:

He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

This beast, antichrist, little horn, man of sin, son of perdition must do the above. This is a clear identifier. It hasn't happened yet, so how do we know who this is? It can't be based on political leanings or feelings of disdain.

Revelation tells us:

One of the heads of the beast appeared to be mortally wounded. But the mortal wound was healed... 

You mentioned the above can be likened to a political wound then a victory. There's more associated with this.

 the whole world marveled and followed the beast.

they worshiped the beast,

And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast

Does one think the world will worship a man that 'survived' a political defeat then got reelected? I personally don't believe that would ever come close to motivating the whole world to worship the beast. Something that did cause a many billions strong worship over many centuries and created the #1 best selling book of all time was a death and resurrection. IMO we are probably looking for the same thing in the beast, or a clever imitation of death and resurrection.

 

And the beast opened its mouth to speak blasphemies against God and to slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven.

Again, this person must have a deep hate for all things of God and His throne. 

There is of course much more. Bottom line; everything prophesied about the little horn, beast, willful king, antichrist is prophesied, as in future. I haven't see any of it come to pass and I know of no one who testifies it has all come to pass, or any of it, as written.

We really don't know before the event, yet we will know when it comes to pass, and probably only then. 

 

 

Those are definitely things the Antichrist will do. And my answer is a simple one.

If your argument is that because certain things haven't yet happened, he cannot be the prophesied one to come, does that same argument apply to Jesus Christ? Has Jesus fulfilled all the things prophesied in the Old Testament? Answer: NO. 

If you are consistent in your logic, then neither is Jesus the Messiah.

The things you mentioned will take place. When the time is right, Donald Trump is primed and ready to step into that role, and so is Jesus Christ for His.

And by the way, people will not worship the Antichrist out of "admiration" but out of a desire to avoid DEATH as their only alternative, as Rev. 13 makes clear.

 

There's much more I can address in your comment. Although perhaps not yet ultimately fulfilled, Trump has said and done things that are very clear shadows of many of those things. But that will have to wait. It's 3:00 AM here, and I'm beat.

Edited March 31 by Jonathan Dane

[Michael37]

7 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

Those are definitely things the Antichrist will do. And my answer is simple one.

If you're argument is that because certain things haven't yet happened, he cannot be the prophesied one to come, does that same argument apply to Jesus Christ? Has Jesus fulfilled all the things prophesied in the Old Testament? Answer: NO. 

If you are consistent in your logic, then neither is Jesus the Messiah.

The things you mentioned will take place. And when the time is right, Donald Trump is primed and ready to step into that role. And so is Jesus Christ for His.

When the anonymous anomos has dispatched and disposed of all that restrains him, then he will be revealed.

2Th 2:6-8  And now you know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time.  (7)  For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now restrains will restrain, until he be taken out of the way.  (8)  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

[Shilohsfoal]

43 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

When the anonymous anomos has dispatched and disposed of all that restrains him, then he will be revealed.

2Th 2:6-8  And now you know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time.  (7)  For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now restrains will restrain, until he be taken out of the way.  (8)  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

I will bet the watchmen in Israel will understand when the man of sins armed forces have been given to the  religious Israeli government.But then Israels goverment will sentence them to prison and death.Like the trial of Christ.

 

 

Daniel 11:33-35

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

 

 

People in the US still won't realize the Israeli government is the beast and the president of he United states who is trying to keep the Israeli government safe is the man of sin.

But the watchmen in israel will sure know it.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

When the anonymous anomos has dispatched and disposed of all that restrains him, then he will be revealed.

2Th 2:6-8  And now you know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time.  (7)  For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now restrains will restrain, until he be taken out of the way.  (8)  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68684069

 

The religious Israeli government has an issue with the daily sacrifice.One that can bring down the government.

It needs its ally in the north to give it a host so that the daily sacrifice can be abolished.Trump won't hesitate to help the religious Israeli government.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-floats-idea-of-mutual-defense-pact-with-israel-days-before-close-election/2019/09/14/515270d8-d714-11e9-9610-fb56c5522e1c_story.html

 

 

Edited March 30 by Shilohsfoal

[Dennis1209]

11 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Public Service Notice:

Some fanatics are saying former USA President Donald Trump is the "man of sin" referred to in 2 Thessalonians 2, but does his name bear any resemblance to the number 666 mentioned in Revelation 13:18?

There are some intriguing connections between former President Donald Trump and the enigmatic number 666.

1. Trump Tower and 666:

   • The Trump Tower, a prominent skyscraper in New York City, is located at 666 Fifth Avenue ¹². The address itself contains the infamous number associated with the mark of the beast.
   • While this is more of a curious coincidence, it has fueled speculation among some that there might be a deeper significance.

2. Casinos and the Number 666:

   • Donald Trump is well-known for his involvement in the casino industry. Interestingly, the sum of the numbers on a roulette wheel is 666 ¹.
   • Again, this connection is more symbolic than factual, but it adds to the intrigue surrounding the number.

3. Wikileaks and Satanic Claims:

   • In a satirical article, Wikileaks humorously claimed that Donald Trump is the son of Satan ³. According to their “documents,” Trump was adopted by Mary Anne and Frederick Christ Trump, a New York City real estate developer.
   • The article even suggests that Trump’s birth certificate lists his father as “Satan” and his mother as “Lilith”. His place of birth? None other than Malebolge, the eighth circle of hell according to Dante’s “Inferno.”

4. Business Dealings with Satan?:

   • A Politico column speculated that Trump had made a deal with the devil to win the presidential election ³. In this fictional scenario, Satan allegedly tells Trump that he must betray principles, exploit fear, and conduct a campaign based on lies.
   • Of course, this is all satire and not to be taken seriously.

5. Former Vice President Dick Cheney:

   • Interestingly, WikiLeaks documents also claim that Trump and former Vice President Dick Cheney are half-brothers, both born in Malebolge ³.

In summary, while there are playful connections between Donald Trump and the number 666, they are mostly coincidental or satirical. Interpretations vary widely, and it’s essential to approach such claims with a healthy dose of skepticism. Whether he is the “man of sin” or not remains a matter of personal belief and interpretation. 🤔🔍🍎

 

I do not play Pin the Tail on the Antichrist, but! One of his characteristics is that he is a wizard of words; his oratory skills will outrival any ancient or modern human (Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation). His speeches would have Hitler withdraw from the podium, listening in awe. He will mesmerize the masses with his oratory prowess.

I respect former President Trump and his commitment to MAGA, but in my lifetime as a leader, his oratory skills severely lacked attention. Trump’s worst enemy is his own mouth, IMO.

[luigi]

Besides the Antichrists primary characteristic being opposite the Lords character of loving your fellow man, here are a few more characteristics about the Antichrist (aka, the man of sin/lawlessness; the little horn; the mouth speaking great things; the false prophet).

He has eyes like those of men, and therefore relates with people by seeing things the way most people do, and speaks of how great things are going to be under his command. (Daniel 7:8; 11; 20; 25)

He is fatter than those around him (Daniel 7:20).

He casts truth to the ground and stomps all over the illumination of Gods angels (Daniel 8:10 & 12; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12). As such, he a pathological liar so as to speak of the great things he will perform that are contrary to God; and as such he is a false prophet (Revelation 16:13; 19:20; 20:10).

He magnifies himself, and loves to see himself on the level of God (Daniel 8:11,25; 11:36-37; 2Thessalonians 2:4). As such, he is a massive narcissist.

[Diaste]

4 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

Those are definitely things the Antichrist will do. And my answer is simple one.

If you're argument is that because certain things haven't yet happened, he cannot be the prophesied one to come, does that same argument apply to Jesus Christ? Has Jesus fulfilled all the things prophesied in the Old Testament? Answer: NO. 

A qualified no. Jesus fulfilled so many prophecies His identity in the 1st C is beyond doubt. What prophecies of the antichrist have been fulfilled so we have even a little understanding of his identity? 

If you are going to categorize the identity with an analogy using Jesus, then the antichrist should be fulfilling some prophecy before his rise to power. 

4 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

If you are consistent in your logic, then neither is Jesus the Messiah.

This is a strawman. I didn't bring up that argument, you did. Then you argue against a point I didn't make? That is not logical. 

I didn't say anyone could not be the antichrist until fulfilling scriptural prophecies concerning identification, I said we can't know for certain until those are fulfilled; just like Jesus fulfilled dozens of prophecies about the Messiah, during His ministry in the first century. 

4 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

The things you mentioned will take place. And when the time is right, Donald Trump is primed and ready to step into that role. And so is Jesus Christ for His.

You do realize religious adherents have been saying for centuries English Royalty, the Popes, world leaders and half of the US presidents are the antichrist? And all under the supposed guidance of the Holy Spirit? 

One more claim and another book isn't really convincing. 

4 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

And by the way, people will not worship the Antichrist out of "admiration," but out of a desire to avoid DEATH as their only alternative, as Rev. 13 makes clear.

Well, no..

"the whole world marveled and followed the beast. 4They worshiped the dragon who had given authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can wage war against it?”"

thaumazó: to marvel, wonder

Original Word: θαυμάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: thaumazó
Phonetic Spelling: (thou-mad'-zo)
Definition: to marvel, wonder
Usage: (a) intrans: I wonder, marvel, (b) trans: I wonder at, admire.

HELPS Word-studies

2296 thaumázō (from 2295 /thaúma, "a wonder, marvel") – properly, wonder at, be amazed (marvel), i.e. astonished out of one's senses; awestruck, "wondering very greatly" (Souter); to cause "wonder; . . . to regard with amazement, and with a suggestion of beginning to speculate on the matter" (WS, 225).

This is clearly starstruck admiration. No fear of death here. As Rev 13:3 makes clear.

4 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

There's much more I can address in your comment. The fact is, although perhaps not yet ultimately fulfilled, Trump has said and done things that are very clear shadows of many of those things. But that will have to wait. It's 3:00 AM here, and I'm beat.

This sounds more like disdain that scholarship. I get it, you don't like DJT. Did you think the same of BO of JB? Or is it the eclipse around Easter and the Devil Comet that requires an antichrist figure and DJT is an easy target? 

I don't care about shadows. It's probably a category error in any case. What did DJT do that fulfilled a single prophecy of the antichrist, beast, little horn, man of sin, son of perdition that justifies the claim they are one and the same?

 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

10 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

1000% certainty, huh? Wow, you "got" me beat; mine's only around 99.99%.

To your quote: "For 1 thing, the AC will be loved by the world."

I'll tell you what I will do with your "1000." I will donate $1000.00 to the charity of your choice if you can provide ONE VERSE from the Bible that explicitly supports that. I mean, with one thousand percent certainty, this shouldn't be too difficult for you. Easy money.

To your second point, "the AC is said to be undefiled of women."

Because I am such a nice and generous fellow, I will also offer another $1000.00 if you can show me a verse in Scripture that says that of the Antichrist.

To your third point, "the AC will create world peace for a time,"

Only a clarification will be offered. (Hey, I don't have more than $2000.00 in the bank.) Scripture does NOT say he will create "peace." It says that he will broker a FALSE peace. And that will happen. And would you care to guess which president has done more peace deals in Israel, more than every other president COMBINED? That would be Donald J. Trump.

And to your final statement: "I think the AC might be a child or toddler right now." Okay, yeah....I can see that. A toddler....an orange one.

Your hatred of Trump makes it difficult to have a good conversation. Your not going by scripture, your going by your own personal feelings of hatred. You seem to care more about bashing Trump ( I honestly don't know why since he did great things ) than about the actual subject. So I will wish you a good day and God Bless.

[Charlie744]

To identify this little horn of Daniel 7 and 8, there maybe 2 areas to focus- his arrival and his specific attributes or characteristics or those things he will be known for. 
 

God does not come out and give his name through Daniel but He does paint such a clear picture of him. And since he is brought into God’s plan of salvation in chapters 7 and 8, shouldn’t we look there?

1) So, when does this little horn arrive on the scene?

2) What kingdom does he come out of?

3) In Daniel 7 and 8 he is given no less than 10 characteristics. These are not general comments but specific? What are these?

4) Unlike any other power or king that would come upon the earth, this little horn is the only one who will continue until he is destroyed at the end times without human hands. 
 

It appears that God may have provided all that we need to identify this little horn. 
 

Any thoughts?

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

To identify this little horn of Daniel 7 and 8, there maybe 2 areas to focus- his arrival and his specific attributes or characteristics or those things he will be known for. 
 

God does not come out and give his name through Daniel but He does paint such a clear picture of him. And since he is brought into God’s plan of salvation in chapters 7 and 8, shouldn’t we look there?

1) So, when does this little horn arrive on the scene?

2) What kingdom does he come out of?

3) In Daniel 7 and 8 he is given no less than 10 characteristics. These are not general comments but specific? What are these?

4) Unlike any other power or king that would come upon the earth, this little horn is the only one who will continue until he is destroyed at the end times without human hands. 
 

It appears that God may have provided all that we need to identify this little horn. 
 

Any thoughts?

Its pretty easy for those who heed all the identifiers God gave us, which this guy doesn't want to hear it seems. 

1.) He must be born in Greece

2.) He must come to power in the E.U.

3.) He must be an Assyrian by bloodline

4.) He must have attributes like unto Antiochus Epiphanes in every way

5.) He must be in cahoots with a Jewish High Priest (False Prophet) just like Antiochus was, the High Priests name was Jason (real name Yeshua)

These five things are more important than his physical appearance and his traits because without looking for a Greek born in the E.U. first we are wasting our time, and without looking for a Greek born in the E.U. who has Assyrian bloodline, we are wasting our time. God narrows down this mans roots by cross referencing all these attributes, birth place, bloodline, and Antiochus like attributes. Then we can go into appearance, demeanor, style, etc. etc.