Annihilationism

[Sower]

4 hours ago, GodIsLife said:

This is proven by science.

Thanks. That explains it.  Men of science, the same ones who believed they evolved from apes, right?.......
It is easy to google up all the scientific experts whose 'beliefs/claims' were totally debunked.
 

Ever hear of the "men of science" performing brain lobotomies.  Look it up.

A transorbital lobotomy, also known as an "ice-pick" lobotomy, is a surgical procedure that involves cutting the brain's frontal lobes through the eye sockets: 

Psychiatrist Walter Freeman performed the first transorbital lobotomy in 1946 in his Washington, D.C. office. Freeman believed that mental illness was caused by overactive emotions, and that cutting the brain would remove these feelings. He performed about 2,500 transorbital lobotomies in 23 states before his death in 1972

Procedure: A "surgeon" inserts a small, ice pick-like instrument called a leucotome through the eye socket and into the brain. The leucotome is then rotated to separate the thalamus from the prefrontal cortex.
Time: The procedure takes about 10 minutes.
Recovery: The patient will have two temporary black eyes, but no permanent scarring.
Location: The procedure can be performed outside of an operating room.

Psychiatrist Walter Freeman performed the first transorbital lobotomy in 1946 in his Washington, D.C. office. Freeman believed that mental illness was caused by overactive emotions, and that cutting the brain would remove these "feelings". He performed about 2,500 transorbital lobotomies in 23 states before his death in 1972.

 

Lobotomy was initially considered a breakthrough in the treatment of mental illness, and approximately 3,000 lobotomies were carried out in Norway in the period 1940–60. Today, the treatment is considered one of the greatest mistakes of modern medicine.

Several immediate and long-term side effects are known after lobotomy:

• Bleeding after the operation.
• Brain infection and abscess.
• Dementia. Suggested Questions.
• Intellectual impairment.
• Disinhibition and inappropriate social behavior.
• Epilepsy.
• Apathy.
• Incontinence.
  Death

How about blood letting?
Bloodletting was thought to be effective for conditions such as: Fever, Inflammation, Seizures, Mental illness, and Plague. However, bloodletting has been discredited as a medical practice and is no longer used today. It can be dangerous and lead to complications such as infection, anemia, and even death.

It involved removing blood from the body to restore balance to the body's "humors," which were believed to be the four essential fluids: blood, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile.

The exact cause of George Washington's death remains unknown. However, bloodletting, a medical practice common at the time, is widely believed to have contributed to his demise. 

Washington developed a sore throat and fever on December 12, 1799. His doctors, following the medical practices of the era, performed multiple bloodlettings, removing over 80 ounces of blood over a 12-hour period. This excessive blood loss weakened Washington and may have led to shock. 

While bloodletting is not considered a direct cause of death, it is thought to have exacerbated Washington's condition and ultimately contributed to his demise on December 14, 1799.

And then we have the scientific experts involved in the Covid pandemic? (This is proven by science!)  Right?

 

[enoob57]

6 hours ago, GodIsLife said:

Yes, Jesus was tortured a lot.

said He was marred more than any man 
Isaiah 52:14 (KJV)

[14] As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

As it represented God's hatred for sin:
Proverbs 6:16 (KJV)

[16] These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

[17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

[18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

[19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

[20] My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

[21] Bind them continually upon thine heart, and tie them about thy neck.

God has so perfectly removed 'evil/sin' >by< 'death/separation' from Himself and those that are His in the eternal state:
 

Knowledge will cease:

1Cor 13:8 

Rev 21:1-5

Isa 65:17

Some contend that the earth will be renovated but according to God's Word 'all things will be made new' ... God is going to make all things new cf. 

Isa 42:9

Isa 48:6

Isa 66:22

2 Peter 3:13

1.            new things, Isa 42:9  Isa 48:6

2.            new song, Isa 42:10 (cf. Rev 5:9 Rev 14:3)

3.            something new, Isa 43:19 (cf. Rev 3:12)

4.            new name, Isa 62:2 (cf. Isa 56:5)

5.            new heavens and a new earth, Isa 65:17 

                        Isa 66:22 (cf. 2 Peter 3:13)

 

The "new" day (cf. Rev 21:5) was, in reality, the day that God always wanted for humans, but the Fall in Gen 3 caused a terrible disruption! It is surely possible that the Bible's imagery of heaven is a restored Garden of Eden (cf. Rev 21:2 ).

But we know by The Great White throne judgment, which is separation from God and not cessation of being...
Isaiah 66:24 (KJV)

[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Revelation 20:10 (KJV)

[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

along with all of humanity that rejected God

Revelation 20:15 (KJV)

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

It is actually humanism the instigates persuasion that God would not do eternal torment, but His Word tells us differently...

 

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Absolutely.  And by 'death' do you mean that torture came to an end?  

Death is separation from God in Hades / Sheol ... a place of waiting for judgment of Great White Throne Rev 20:10-15...
and No! Torture continues for them there to this present day... Lk 16:23-31

[D. Adrien]

Science also cannot define consciousness, energy or gravity. To be able to make use of something doesn't necessarily define what it is.

[GodIsLife]

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I take everything in the Bible as literal, understanding of course, the figures of speech,  symbolic language employed which is used in an effort to show more of a truth than words alone can.   

And if we don't, take it all literally, then everyone just makes up their own stuff aka filthy rags.  


BUT here's the BEST THING...every knee will bow, LITERALLY.  And since there has not been a single death of both body and soul of any BEING God has created yet, all will soon KNOW the Truth believers and nonbelievers alike.    

A living soul means a living being. God breathed oxygen (spirit) into Adam's lifeless body and the oxygen activated Adam's brain and so Adam became a living soul. But when Adam's brain died, Adam ceased to exist.

If the brain is dead the person no longer exists. There is no underworld where he wakes up. Sheol/Hades is just metaphorical. The Bible is full of symbolic language.

[Who me]

17 hours ago, GodIsLife said:

I believe that these passages should be understood symbolically

And if they are not synbolic?

[Who me]

14 minutes ago, GodIsLife said:

A living soul means a living being. God breathed oxygen (spirit) into Adam's lifeless body and the oxygen activated Adam's brain and so Adam became a living soul. But when Adam's brain died, Adam ceased to exist.

If the brain is dead the person no longer exists. There is no underworld where he wakes up. Sheol/Hades is just metaphorical. The Bible is full of symbolic language.

From this you believe  there is no life to come with Jesus in heaven. 

It renders why Jesus came to nothing more than a pointless gesture.

[GodIsLife]

3 hours ago, Who me said:

From this you believe  there is no life to come with Jesus in heaven. 

It renders why Jesus came to nothing more than a pointless gesture.

I believe in the resurrection of the dead.

[FreeGrace]

On 1/2/2025 at 4:44 PM, GodIsLife said:

I believe in annihilationism. This means I believe that hell is not literally a place where people are tortured forever but that it is eternal annihilation. By eternal annihilation I mean that the devil, demons and godless people will cease to exist when they are thrown into the lake of fire. It's like throwing a piece of paper into the fire. It is consumed by the fire and is no longer there.

Why include "eternal" to 'annihilation', because annihilation has an end point.  When the entity ceases to exist, there is no more.  Poof!  So what does "eternal" have to do with annihilation?  If something is eternal, that means the entity exists forever.  The Bible is clear that condemnation will exist forever.  

Rev 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

This verse is the BEST verse to refute 'annihilationism'.  We note that the devil will be cast into the LOF after the Millinnial Reign of Christ.  He will JOIN the 'beast and false prophet' two human beings, who were cast into the LOF 1,000 years BEFORE.  That's a lot of suffering, don'tcha think?

The verse ends with this:  They (beast, false prophet, the devil) will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.  This isn't even about "smoke of their torment".  It is clearly ABOUT their TORMENT.

So, how long will this TORMENT be?  The Bible SAYS:  day and night for ever and ever.  Hm.  How long will that be?  Well, the words "day and night" refer to a 24 hour day.  A specific time frame.  But there's more:  for ever and ever.  So, how long is that?  Well, never ending is what it means.  Never stopping.  So the torment for those cast into the LOF will never end.

Of course, those with their own agenda, driven by their own bias, will argue "day and night, for ever and ever" that "day and night for ever and ever" simply cannot mean never ending.  And then comes out the list of verses that don't actually relate to Rev 20:10 at all.  They just don't want to face reality here.

But there's another huge flaw in the idea of annihilation.  It aligns pretty well with what atheists believe.  For them, at death, they believe that they will no longer exist.  That means no conscienceness, no nothing.  But we KNOW from Scripture that there is a holding cell for unblelievers, called Hades, where all unbelievers go after death, awaiting the Great White Throne judgment of Rev 20:11-15.  

To cease to exist means to be free of ALL senses.  So there can be NO sense of eternal condemnation, yet the Bible teaches that there will be a sense of eternal condemnation.

Satan wants peope to believe that there are no consequences for behavior, and at death, there is no more.  That means no more suffering, no more torment, no more anything.  The Bible clearly doesn't teach any of that nonsense.

On 1/2/2025 at 4:44 PM, GodIsLife said:

A living soul means a living being. God breathed oxygen (spirit) into Adam's lifeless body and the oxygen activated Adam's brain and so Adam became a living soul. But when Adam's brain died, Adam ceased to exist.

No, God didn't breathe O2 into Adam's body.  He placed the soul/spirit into the physiological body of Adam, and then and ONLY THEN did Adam "become a living being" human being.  Gen 2:7

So you don't believe Adam is in heaven right now, and won't receive a resurrection body when ALL believers will receive theirs?

So then, when you die, and therefore cease to exist, you won't receive a glorified immortal resurrection body, which is just like the one Jesus had when He resurrected.

Your teaching is FAR from the Bible.  

[other one]

16 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 So what does "eternal" have to do with annihilation?

Gone forever???

[FreeGrace]

47 minutes ago, other one said:

FreeGrace said:

 So what does "eternal" have to do with annihilation?

Gone forever???

That is my point;  if one is annihilated and ceases to exist, there is NO MORE condemnation, NO MORE existence, NO MORE experience.  That is good and relieves any sense of consequences for one's life.  An escapism kind of idea.

And Rev 20:10 clearly teaches that the beast, false prophet and satan will be tormented (experience) day and night, for ever and ever.

Atheists believe that all ceases at physical death.  No doubt every one of them will be surprised when they remain conscious after they die, and are in a real place, and they are experiencing what the rich man experienced when he died, per Luke 16.

So the teaching of annihilation would have some appeal to atheists.  It would lend support to their fantasy.