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SS, The Old Covenant has been replaced by the New Covenant. That in itself is a change of how God relates to men. There are certain aspects of the Old Covenant which are null and void because Christ has fulfilled them. So please study the epistle to the Hebrews and see what this means. No one was ever saved (or will be saved) by the works of the Law. Salvation is by grace through faith plus nothing.

the serpent would bite him..... I know that from experience.

This was discussed in our sermon in church last Sunday . Galatians 1: 6-10 No Other Gospel 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusionand are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you,let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! 10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ. What stood out to you from the passage you read? Questions: How important is the gospel truth to you? Why will understanding the true gospel produce anger at the false gospels? What other gospels do you find that are easy for you to believe and why? What are some modern false gospel dangers our church could easily fall for? Read vs 10: When you live to please only God and not people ,how does that change everything? Jesus +anything else =nothing. Jesus and _______nothing (no rules or laws) =everything. If we love Jesus we would want to do things +live for Jesus.

When you look back to the days of Ozzie and Harriet and Leave it to Beaver: These television shows worked, because they accurately reflected the real lives that most American families were living during these years(1940-1960). The vast majority of people, were generally decent people who had been taught the value of a good character. For those of you who don’t even know who Ozzie and Harriet were, this makes it even easier for some scoffer, to convince you, that things have “always been this way”..... 2 Peter 3:3-4 V.3 ¶ Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, V.4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.” ------------------ There was a time 50 years ago, when you NEVER heard homosexuality or any kind of sexual sin even mentioned on television. But this wasn’t only, true in the secular realm. Back in the 1940s & 1950s, most Christian Churches used the KJB; But the pressure was even then, being put on pastors and Churches, to stop doing things, in the “old ways”! Today, the PRESSURE for every Christian to compromise their Biblical principles, is greater than it has ever been; And every day that Jesus doesn’t come back, this pressure is increasing. The decisions(both political and religious), that otherwise sane and well adjusted people are making today, are being seen as crazy, by anyone who hasn’t got their head in the sand. -------------------------------------------------- It is obvious, that we are living in the “last” of the last days and that this “sin sick” and “self destructive” and “self consuming” world, that we are living in, is just about to collapse down upon itself....... 2 Timothy 3:13 “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.” Praise the Lord, Jesus is just about to come back and take us out of this mess! But until He does, we need to remind ourselves every day, of the fact that this world is becoming more and more deceived and that we need to keep our feet, solidly grounded upon the Word of God!

Agreed, how can God be limited by His own creation? God exists outside of time.

Everlasting righteousness was brought in through the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, when he shed his blood for us: 2 Cor 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Can there ever be any more righteousness to be brought in? No. This prophecy has been fulfilled.

This is where you and I will disagree. God created time but is not limited by it. God knows the future and what will happen as many, many scriptures illustrate. If you limit God within time, prophesy becomes educated guess-work.

Vitriol combined with information pertinent to the debate is one thing. Vitriol for its own sake only serves the Accuser.

Rev. 13:1 ... I saw a Beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns... 2 Now the Beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The Dragon [Satan, Rev. 12:9] gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. Rev. 17:3 I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet Beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 8 ...“The Beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the Abyss and go to perdition. 2 Thes. 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day [of Christ's Parousia/Presence/Coming, 2:1] will not come unless the apostasy/falling away comes first, and the man of sin [alt. reading, lawlessness] is revealed, the Son of Perdition, 8 ...the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His Parousia/Presence/Coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, Opinions about who the Lawless One, the Son of Perdition, is depends upon one's eschatology. I believe the scriptures teach a Post-Trib, Pre-wrath time of Christ's Coming in the clouds for his Church/Bride, and that the Son of Perdition will be destroyed (literally 'done away with') at this Rapture. The Beast will only ascend out of the Abyss after this, at the 5th Trumpet, and will be cast into the Abyss after the Battle of Armageddon. See below. Pre-tribbers teach that the Church will be raptured first, and the Son of Perdition is the Beast. Probably most post-tribbers also believe the Son of Perdition is the Beast, and believe the Rapture takes place at Armageddon. But they can speak for themselves. For a more complete explanation of what I believe about the Son of Perdition, go here, and scroll down to my July 7 article "The son of Perdition is a Patsy" : http://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/188354-does-the-man-of-sin-meet-the-requirements-to-be-islamic/?page=6#comment-2236577

He cannot, because they were created long before God laid the foundations of the Earth. Job 38: 4, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6, Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7, When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD shouted for joy? These sons of God were the angels for man had not yet been created and even had sons of their own, when God laid the foundations of the Earth. Angels were created and lived with God in Heaven before God originally created the Earth long before the six days of God having to restore the Earth back to a habitable state for man after Lucifers rebellion and the destruction of it.

I "berated" you for not answering someone else's question except with a question. Its a pattern Ive noticed. Others have noticed too.

I have actually found Worthy to be more of the more lenient moderated Christian forums and Chat sites. There are others that are unmoderated that I wouldn't go near and others are over moderated, but Worthy has consistently been balanced. It allows debate to continue, if it's respectful, but when insults start flying the thread is locked, I believe that is the right course of action. That is not to say I haven't had problems with Mods before, but that was more my doing than anything else.

Certainly John's writing of the Gospel, his letters and Revelation should be considered as infallible in the original languages they were written in. The same could be said of Matthew and Peter. But we know Peter made at least one mistake as detailed in Acts and corrected by Paul. I accept the Old and New Testaments as infallible as originally written in the original languages as inspired by the Holy Spirit. I do not accept any man or woman as infallible ... period. That includes the Pope in whatever topic he speaks on, on any subject, to any people, from any location. This is not the position of the Roman Catholic Church unless they are admitting teaching error for the 1600+ years they've been around.

That's good to know. Given all the blunders of the current Pope, someone should let him know that he is unfit for the job. A letter of resignation would be most appropriate.

See, this is what several of us complain about with you. We ask a question and do not get an answer but instead another question.

God has called us to study to show oneself approved... it will be an intense undivided effort with The Spirit of God a must at the foremost and death to self required ( ! ) Jesus claims to be 'The Son of Man' and when we get home we will see just how significant that statement from God 'IS'... He Being God knows - we being sinful man redeemed await the fullness of this understanding. God's / man's linage from Adam to Christ Lk 3:23-38 and the one of Matt 1:1-17 Abraham to Christ... this significance sets before us an understanding of many facets of Biblical linages one tracing chosen of God through Abraham man's bloodline and The Spiritual linage for Jesus' body! Most likely you want the simple when in fact only the complexities of time that thru creation to tribulation and due diligence... If you think this is bad you should talk to Jewish Rabi's their intensities go way up to 20 on a scale to 1-10 Maybe Shiloh will address this with you... he is really good at wording in places like this Love, Steven

We are advised NOT to judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Seems we constantly hear about how Social Security is going to run out of money. How come we never hear about welfare or food stamps running out of money? What's interesting is the first group worked for their money, but the second didn't. Why are we cutting benefits for our veterans, no pay raises for our military and cutting our army to a level lower than before WWII, but we are not stopping payments to illegal aliens such as monthly payments for each child, money for housing, food stamps, free education including college and also the right to vote? Am I the only one missing something?

How can it be any more clearer than there were no words for generational lineage? There was no word for grandson. So the grandson of a man was simple referred to as the son of....

In Hebrew, there was no word of grandson, grandfather, etc. Even Christ is called the Son of David.

Jewish linage is given in familiar like you would your close relatives as though matter of fact in family tree. It was however the tracing of the children of Abraham (God's chosen people)... The treasury management was given to the Levites whom descended from Gershon, son of Levi, through the line of ladan or Libni; cf. Ex 6:17; 1 Ch 6:17) and family of Jehieli (1 Chron 26:21-22). Levites descended from Kohath (see listed in v. 23; cf. 1 Chron 23:12) through the lineage of Moses and headed by Shubael and his descendants (1 Chron26:24-25; cf. 1 Chron23:16). It can be a very taxing work processing the linages in God's Word!

All in all we can rely on God's Word to tell us... and it is that of starvation of His Word Amos and calling good bad and bad good Isa and to the point The Lord ask this of us Lk 18:8 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? This is pretty bleak seeing how God says this of faith Heb 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. KJV Love, Steven

I have found an element in my growth in this area that surprised me! We generally maintain a self check list of things we like and don't like in people... and we tend to migrate to the likes but I have realized that this is narrow in acceptance and that if I die to myself and open my heart to them-> because if their there in the family of gathering I am to love them with an honest death to self an alive to God approach! There is always something in them that benefits my spirit unto The Spirit within... I would never have discovered this had I remained in my own checklist! This stretching or broadening of being within myself has led to much better understanding of God and I am more useful to Him in this way than the other ( ! ) Love, Steven

Well, from the travels we have been through in the past six years I would just say that I think it's the media that has gone to hell in the handbasket more than the people itself and that's the difference in the USA today and back in the 20's. Even the 50's and 60's when I was growing up there was more evil than people wanted to admit.... Now we admit the evil is there, but the vast majority of the people we have met all across the nation do not accept it as good. And we so so many good people, I am not sure it is really even the norm. When the devil owns and controls the media, we don't every get the real truth. Not in politics, nor even the day to day things that make us what we are.

woe unto those who say good is evil and evil, good.

There has always been evil in the World and always sin. But in the glory days of Christendom, these things were kept in check to some extent and that was reflected in the culture. Now, anything goes which is why there is so much decadence being passed off as normal and healthy.

If just ONE prophecy in the OT has not yet come true then preterism is a lie....... Let's start with Zechariah 8:23 shall we? If you want to reason then kindly explain when this has happened in history. You are claimimg proof when there is none. The entire book of Ezekiel, for example is full of non-fulfilled prophecies.

Not all churches are worldly and teach false teachings .you might have been in the wrong church and I'm sure there are Biblical churches where you could attend services and hear the truth , some churches might have a different spin on something but as long as they preach the gospel have the right doctrine it should be a blessing to worschip the Lord with fellow believers , we all need each other. Until we reach heaven we live in our human bodies and we all will come short to the glory of God, so we will never find a perfect church on earth ,only Jesus is perfect and we are all perfect in Him. We go to church to worship our King and to get together with our brothers and sisters, I see this as a blessing and a little heaven on earth! God never mend for us to be alone as Christian ...we all need each other.. 1 Corinthians 12:12-27 One Body with Many Members 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves[a] or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts,[b] yet one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

Hi Daze, After all these years of confusion I have suffered with this prophecy I am confident I have finally nailed it. To answer your question .. Yes. Christ preached to Israel for 3.5 years and Paul preached for 3.5 years to the Gentiles, which together gives us that 1 'week' whereby Christ was crucified (cut off) in the middle (midst) of that same week. (Paul declares his ministry finished after his 3 years teaching the Gentiles which is found in Acts .. the outstanding .5 years would possibly be travel time, making up 3.5 years .. OR .. Paul generalized just like we all do .. you know, "yeah, 8 years ago I did such and such" (but it was really 8 1/2 years ago) .. we all do it. Of course Paul preached for more than 3.5 years, but it was ONLY during the 1 'week' where the CONFIRMING of said covenant was officially being fulfilled within the 70 week parameter / allotment (remembering the scriptures say that the covenant was being CONFIRMED through the Apostles with miracles & signs & wonders) .. this was within the 70 'weeks' requirement. Now the reason why God put in the separation of the 7 'weeks' & the 62 'weeks' was this (sorry bout the sloppy 'graph') .. _____________________________________________________________________________________ From the going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem ----- UNTO -----the Messiah the Prince .. shall be _____________________________________________________________________________________ 7 'weeks' = 49 years ----- AND ----- 62 'weeks' = 434 years _____________________________________________________________________________________ 49 years + 434 years =483 years = 69 weeks Now I can see WHY God separated the stages into 7 'weeks' AND 62 'weeks' .. The 7 weeks contains the commandment to rebuild AND the actual rebuilding itself .. thus when the building itself was completed we can acknowledge that 7 'weeks' would have now passed (49 years) to accomplish that requirement .. lock that in. Take that as phase 1. Then God said 62 'weeks' UNTO Messiah .. but what about the 7 'weeks' ? .. well, this is now phase 2, the 7 'weeks' was phase 1, phase 1 was specific in that it referred to the commandment to rebuild AND the rebuilding itself, so again, only AFTER phase 1 is completed we can begin the counting of the other 62 'weeks' leading UNTO Christ .. which together will make 69 'weeks' total .. because and again God said FROM the commandment to rebuild UNTO Christ would be 7 'weeks' AND 62 'weeks' which of course makes 69 'weeks' .. notice 'unto Christ' .. meaning the beginning of His Ministry (emerged) which commenced at His baptism by John the Baptist when He was 30 years old .. from here (Baptism) is the actual end of the 62 weeks which at the SAME TIME is the signalling / ushering in of the actual starting point of the last 'week' (7 years = 1 'week'). Picture Christ's Baptism .. His being submerged in the Jordan = end of the 62 'weeks' .. to his resurfacing = beginning of His Ministry (Anointed) which in turn kicks off the count for the last week (70th week) for an example. Take that as phase 2. Now since God said AFTER the 62 'weeks' Messiah the Prince shall be cut off .. AFTER 62 weeks mind you .. and as we see, the 62 weeks & the 7 'weeks' are already completed because the city WAS rebuilt and Christ DID COME .. BUT .. What of His Cutting Off (crucifixion)?? Christ has still NOT yet been CUT OFF even after those 7 'weeks' + 62 'weeks' = 69 'weeks' !! .. Meaning that we ONLY have ONE WEEK left / outstanding in which to manoeuver, whereby Christ is to be CUT OFF AFTER the 69 'weeks' of 7 'weeks' & 62 'weeks' .. there simply aren't any 'weeks' left EXCEPT ...... 1 'week' remaining . Well, that 1 'week' where he was cut off iS the 70th week itself !! There just aren't any 'weeks' left at this stage except 1 'week' .. and the crucifixion MUST take place within the 70 weeks total itself .. thus the so called 'missing week' is NOT missing at all. (I just couldn't work it out until 'NOW') it was the 'week' of Christ's ministry and Pauls ministry which together lasted 7 years to the day (1 'week') to make up the 70th week. And so, that was phase 3. Thus .. 7 + 62 + 1 = 70 weeks .. (490 years). And now we are left with 0 weeks left .. meaning, NO future "missing week' is possible because it was already fulfilled. This is what I can see. PS. From Artaxerxes to the Baptism of Christ in Jordan happens to be 483 years !! (give or take a few years as nobody is 100 % & certain to the precise year), meaning that the beginning of Christ's ministry at 30 years of age was in fact His appearing (62 'weeks' UNTO Christ) and signalling for the final 'week' (+7 years = 490 years) which saw His crucifixion and Pauls 3.5 years of taking and CONFIRMING the covenant to the Gentiles) Thanks Daze.

Shalom, SINNERSAVED. The book of Enoch (or Chanokh) is a human work. It is not said to be an inspired book either internally or externally. It is, however, a fascinating read. There are some fictional parts that should not be believed; however, one can still learn a lot from such a book. One must just take it with a proverbial "grain of salt." "Reliable?” Not necessarily. Regarding the Torah, you DO know that the Torah is simply Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, right? These five books, often called the “Pentateuch" in Christian circles IS the Torah. The ONLY difference is that most copies of the Torah are written in Hebrew instead of English or some other language. Furthermore, the books of the Torah are indeed inspired and are so accepted from internal and external evidence. The book of Enoch doesn't even begin to compare with the Torah! The book of Enoch, like most (if not all) of the books of the Apocrypha, is simply literature from the ancient times, and they all should be considered "works of art" that reveal some information about the history and culture of the people of those times, but should NOT be considered "infallible portions of God's Word!" It's okay to study the book of Enoch for what it can reveal about how people thought and felt about God and His people, but it should be treated as any other human-written, historical source, nothing more. You (hopefully) wouldn't make that mistake about the Works of Josephus; you shouldn't make that mistake about this source, either. Oh, and by the way, I DO dismiss many commentaries! "Let God be true and every man a liar!"

Oh yes, it's definitely happening and the Pope is not the only one pushing this ungodly nonsense. Some of the New Age 'evangelists' are as well.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Montanna Marv If you know what these scriptures mean you wouldn't of made that statement. If some Christians chose not to go to church, it's because they want to know directly what Christ's doctrine is for themselves through the scriptures directly, without all the hype and influence of a church's doctrine, for there are many as you know. We should not build on another mans foundation. Christ is our only mediator to God. The helper is the Holy Spirit, not the church. There is a falling away happening at the moment, and it would be wise in these times to go directly to the Word of God for guidance.

Natural brothers in that context must be close in their experiences and thinking and would basically come from the same background and experiences..... people who fight in the military for example...... A Christians and a Muslims have little in common that I see, if they are truly believing muslims..... I might call them cousins, but never brothers. I do understand where the Pope is coming from but I do disagree with him..... His thinking is tainted by the Jesuit push to Liberal Theology which none of us should accept.

It never ceases to amaze me how people who say they believe in the Word of God, His Bible, and ignore the many dozens upon dozens of Scriptures provided that prove beyond doubt that the 'Gap Principle' is in fact true! God did not create the devil, He created 'Lucifer,' a perfect spirit being, who was perfect in every way until Iniquity was found in him. Ezekiel 28:15, Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. He was a fallen creature when he entered the garden of Adam and Eve to tempt them and try and wrest back control of the Earth, which he succeeded to do, after God restored it to a habitable state for man, a finite being.

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Wouldn't a truthful leader insist on approving any translation that they may have made? Or at least delegate this chore to truthful interpreters? If a person claims to speak for Jesus (as the pope does), it would be that persons responsibility to make sure the truth is spread in any language. He does not get a pass for incompetent staff members. The buck stops at the pope's desk.

The problem is that the media have latched on to this word to make it mean whatever they choose, and generally applies in the most derogatory manner. There is a world of difference between Islamic Extremism and Christian Fundamentalism, but who cares?

Exo 20:11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exo 31:17It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. The whole creation including lucifer was made in six days. The gap theory/principle/ideology or whatever you want to call it is false.