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  1. I'm praying for you, sister ... one thing you can be assured of, you are not crazy. Praying for your peace of mind, for strength, and protection, in Jesus' name!!!! Hugs.... Abby
  2. Praying for you. I'm glad you've asked for prayer. I hope you're doing well today. Be purposeful about filling your time with things of God. Life with God is exciting. Seek Him, rather than an experience to replace former habits and addictions.
  3. Welcome to Worthy! What so you think of the Bible?
  4. President Trump made a major announcement on Friday, revealing one of the nation’s largest telecommunications company would create 20,000 jobs and invest over $25 billion in the United States, reports Fox News. “Today I am thrilled to announce that Charter Communications has just committed to investing $25 billion… with a ‘B’, $25 billion… and has committed further to hiring 20,000 American workers over the next four years,” said the President. 3/24 Hannity.Com God bless our president and the USA!
  5. I agree! It's always thrilling to read our country is coming back from all those efforts made in the past to bring us down.
  6. Yes,yes I did Peeps......it's a very heart wrenching memory really.......we took several trips together to local wooded areas to start & then back up to Hunter a few times ,each time he would go further & further from me for longer & longer periods of time,the last time I let me go he was gone quite a long time & when I started the engine to leave he must've heard it & chasen the vehicle for a long way,I kept seeing him in the rear view mirror my heart telling me to stop & hold him in my arms but my mind said "Keep going ,let him be free"......I could barely see where I was going behind the tears.......thats the real end of the story......I never skied Hunter again,never returned to the mountain
  7. It is always nice when Logan claims last especially when he claims her from OO It is Mothers day and the first day of Summer here at last so an hour less in bed ( not that my dogs care as they are not watch dogs so don't know how to tell the time )
  8. Welcome To Worthy Gustavoo!!
  9. I have a question that I have struggled with for a long time. In The Old Testament psalms, David prayed for judgment on his enemies - the "Imprecatory Psalms" - then Christ said to "love your enemies, pray for those who use and persecute you." When someone does something despicable to you - how are you supposed to know whether to pray for God's judgment on them, or pray *for* them? I'm a long time Christian and this still stumps me. I have seen people get away with atrocities, and do not appear to have gotten repaid for the evil they did. Even when Christ said to pray for your enemies, he didn't say specifically *what* to pray. Has anyone else stumbled with this?
  10. I'd like to share my poetry. If anyone wants to share their poetry with me, you're more than welcome to do so. A PSALM OF STRUGGLE My soul is crying out to God For Mercy and Justice For Self and Others Like Paul, I hate what I do, And what I don't hate, I don't do There are ugly things in my heart It was revealed to me in the wilderness And depression sucks the life out of me Out of the depths of the sting of Painful Memories My friends have forsaken me, My enemies are nearby, they Can surround me at any time My divided heart is stubborn so its rebellious Carried away by winds of adversity... I will have to fight to gain the prize What is the prize? A pure heart that seeks humility And grows sunflowers in the midst of brokenness. When will I learn to surrender? When will I learn to be faithful? Will God turn his face away from me? Oh my soul, how foolish are your thoughts! When will you learn to rejoice Before your vain mind grows dark? My idols do not leave me. My stony heart needs water Of the living word of God. A hypocrite who seeks to be whole... Let not my anger get the best of me. Strengthen me, oh God, before my body turns to dust, And I'm forgotten. Teach me how to fear you and to surrender... Give me a love for your word, my enemies, and your chastisement.
  11. I understand the need to follow God in the use of your talents. However, Jesus gave the example of being a servant. He just met needs that he saw, whether washing tired dusty feet, or whether it was healing the sick, or especially of preaching God's message of repentance and faith toward God. He showed people their need for a Savior and that He Himself is Who will meet our needs. God opens our eyes to the needs of others according to the gifts given us. I see emotional and spiritual needs. My husband sees practical needs and even anticipates them so that he is there to provide them. Jesus saw every need. I also understand the need to first be healed yourself. It would seem that God is doing that through your writing. But there comes a time that God will ask you to pour out your life to others to meet their needs. We follow the Holy Spirit as He unfolds each day. It is not mapped out as a course of action but is full of surprises and interruptions that prove to be divine appointments: opportunities to minister to others out of the life of Christ within you.
  12. I like my NKJ and I don't feel like a heathen for using it. I do have a KJV and had it for many years. It was my first Bible my parents got me for my 18th birthday. I love it too.
  13. THE BATTLEFIELD, by Jacob Ben Avraham I remember the stories that the Viet Nam vets told me about jungle warfare, about how Charlie Cong set land mines, booby traps here and there to blow up the American soldiers, about how the Cong would seek away into tunnels and “disappear” The army would send in “tunnel rats” to flush them out, armed with 45s, combat knives, they would go in after them. I was still too young for the Viet Nam engagement, I enlisted in 72 and they were just sending in volunteers. But who would want to volunteer for a war that wasn't even in your backyard? Well, there are always two sides of the story. Pop used to tell me about his adventure in WWII, he was a radio repairman, he would repair radios in blown-up tanks. His weapon was the M-1 rife, although he never made it into actual combat then, he still fought in a battle later on after WWII was over, a different war in which he changed weapons. Later on he used nerve gas canisters. When I was growing up, he showed them to me too. “Son” he told me one day, “you'll be going into combat one day soon, and you need to choose your weapon that will do the most harm. You have land mines and nerve gas, use them both!” Sure enough, I went into combat, fighting a forever-fighting enemy, relentless, a strike-and-hide type warfare. They used to call us “mother green and her M-16” as the M16A1 rifle was the most popular in Viet Nam and after wards. I chose nerve gas as my weapon of choice. It would render the enemy “dead” no survivors, no prisoners, only a “body count”. Bullets would have little effect, too many of the enemy. What would two or three bullets do against an army of one-hundred or more, but launch a nerve-gas attack, that's a different matter. I saw the movie “All Quiet on the Western Front” and saw how nerve gas left soldiers dying in the trenches, and “John Boy” survived that, only to get a sniper bullet in the head because he was stupid enough to poke his head up over the trench to sketch a silly butterfly. Another soldier told me how to make land-mines, that would blow up the enemy once they came out of hiding, those that would survive the nerve gas. Well, once a soldier, always a soldier as the saying goes. Who says you can't be a rabbi and a combat soldier at the same time. Sure you can. So, here I am, on the front lines, the battle isn't even far, just a few yards away. The enemy just comes out under the cover of darkness, then at dusk, they go back into hiding, only to await the setting of the sun, to come out and wreck havoc again. The enemy has their weapon, they use germ warfare, biological hazards, so, it's a battle of nerve gas against germ warfare, who will come out winning? I am still on active duty, still in combat. This morning was no different. I got up, and while under the cover of darkness, slowing crept forward, making sure I was not heard. I had my nerve gas canister with me, I learned that quick spurts were just as effective holding down the trigger. I have enough nerve gas to last a few months. I found out the enemy's bunker, I had to be quiet, ever so quiet, as long as it was dark, I could get them. It had to be an element of surprise, So, I crept up, still under the cover of darkness. Then, I struck. I opened fire! I opened the bunker door quick as a flash, and launched the nerve gas, and three cockroaches hit the floor. They fell from the pantry closet door and hit the floor in agonizing pain. I remember the army drill sergeants often had us do the “dying cockroach” position. Those three cockroaches will never again climb on top of the cans of spaghetti Os, and around the boxes of elbow macaroni. Yet more will come out of the woodwork, reinforcements will come. The war will continue, another battle will be fought. I put the nerve-gas canister (RAID, Roach and ant killer) along side the pantry door, and went to make some coffee. I got dressed, got my school badge and opened the front door to meet the cats. I gave the cats their morning meal and left for the high school. Dulles Vikings is playing the Clements Rangers this week, hope the “Vikings” win. (I'm a Viking). I'm thinking about making and using land-mines now. All I need is some pre-sweetened cool aid, some powdered sugar and boric acid, mix it all together and cut a dixie cup in half, put them under the counter, under the frig, and other places the enemy can gather and formulate nocturnal attacks, once they get their feet in the mixture, lights out! They're goners, even though they don't know it. On the spiritual front, we fight a similar battle. The WORD of God says that we fight not against flesh and blood, but against principalities of darkness, In a way, cockroaches can symbolize demons, they are part of the ever darkness, Demons, or fallen angels fight believers daily, trying to ruin believer's testimony, break up marriages. Our defense is prayer, and to be in the WORD of God, to know the Torah is our best weapon, For HaSatan, the war is over, he just doesn't realize it, the war was finished at calvary's cross. On the earth, the fight goes on, tomorrow, another battle, another 3 or 4 cockroaches will bite the dust, 3 down, 500 + to go, every day, except on the sabbath of course. On that day, they'll have time to regroup and plan more strategies, have more baby cockroaches, invade the pantry and try to get into the food. Everything, though, is sealed, even the brown sugar, they can't get in. This is just another morning in the day of rabbi Ben Avraham. Rabbi J. Ben Avraham
  14. A shaved Alpaca. The longer you look the funnier it is.
  15. PARASHA: VaYakhel (and he assembled) and P’Kudei (Accountings of) EX 35:1-38:20 and EX 38:21-40:38……………..1 KINGS 7:13-8:21………….MARK 9:1-50 …..These are the final chapters of Exodus (Shemot) and Moshe talks about honoring the Sabbath day, the prohibition of lighting a fire on the Sabbath, gathering an offering to build the tabernacle and it’s furnishings, the appointment of persons to make certain items, and finally, the building project in detail and the outcome. All these are worth talking about. ….”Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to YHVH” …..”You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.” …..These are very important statements, commandments repeated from before. Even before the building project begins, YHVH wants his people to know the work days, rules, and regulations. It this “work-a-holic” world in which we live, the believer should know when to stop and rest. YHVH commands it, for our own good and mental soundness. Too many people work all seven days a week, perhaps 10 or more hours each day to make a “lot-of-money” only to spend the extra money at the hospital when they have a nervous breakdown because of all the extra work hours. …..The Sabbath is a day to spend with the family, at the family’s place of worship., be it at a synagogue or at a church. It is a time to spend with the LORD, to worship, learn from HIS WORD, and fellowship with other believers. It is a time to leave the things of the house alone, perhaps eat out, and return home at the end of Sabbath. It is intended as a “day of rest” so, “rest” means exactly that, “rest”. …..When we look at the commandment; “Thou shalt kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath” we need to ask ourselves, what was fire used mainly for? Probably for cooking! To boil water, prepare food in different ways. Manna fell from the sky and the Israelites perhaps ate it as is, or boiled it, made it into bread, they probably roasted goats or lambs from the flocks, heated ovens for “Manna flat bread” It was a task and a half to start and maintain a fire, cooking, preparing and all that. So, YHVH is saying STOP!, just for the Sabbath, and take a break from it all. Stop slaving over the hot stove and rest, prepare something on Friday, that is why HE gave a “double-portion” of Manna on Friday. …..Today, how can we put that “mitzvah” into good use without “overdoing it” as some Jewish sects do, not , turning on a light switch, not driving a car, etc. Well, to start, we can prepare meals for Saturday on Friday, and on the Sabbath, just heat them up. Another idea, eat something light like salad and sandwiches. Many churches and synagogues have the custom of eating out, or eating “in”. Some Jewish synagogues have “oneg” a lunch prepared for the members and guests after service. Some church Sunday school classes go out to eat as families after services on Sundays. Why not? Give the house-wife or house-husband a break from kitchen duty! Don’t they deserve it? Anyway, the Sabbath was made for man and woman, to “rest” and take it easy, and mediate on YHVH. …..The rest of these two Parashot have to do with the Tabernacle. The order to build it, to take up an offering of materials, to assign workers, to “build it” to “put it all together” and finally, to invite YHVH to come down and dwell in it, which he DID, at the close of the book of Exodus. So, go ahead and read the chapters. How can we look at this in light of our lives as born-again believers in Messiah Yeshua? …..The “tabernacle” today is YHVH’s dwelling place which is each and every “Kehilah” (congregation) where born-again believers meet to worship the LORD, singing praises and teaching his WORD. The tabernacle is also the bodies of all believers, with the Ruach HaKodesh dwelling inside of us! YHVH has given each and every believer some gift and talent to “maintain” the “Mishkan of Believers” as YHVH chose different individuals to build the furniture of the Mishkan, so HE has selected different believers with different talents to maintain the Kehilah. …..So, what does every article of tabernacle furniture symbolize in relationship with Yeshua and believers? …..1. The Mishkan itself with the curtains, poles, staves, etc = A “fence” to keep holiness in and ungodliness out! Once inside, you are in the holy place, where YHVH dwells, and where the priests minister. Our Kehilot are “holy places” where the LORD dwells and where we join for fellowship with other believers. …..2. “Aron HaKodesh” (The Ark of the Covenant) the “heart” of the Mishkan, where the tablets of the commandments are kept, together with a pot of Manna, and Aron’s rod. It symbolizes the believer who “should” shine like “gold” both inwardly as well as outwardly. We should be mindful of the commandments to put them into action as “unto good works” Yeshua is our “Manna” the “Bread of Life” and the Rod of Aron as our “Rod of authority, our high priesthood of believers” The “Shekinah glory” which rested above the mercy seat is the everlasting presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives. …..3. “The Table of Incense” it symbolizes our prayers as they go up “like smoke” unto the heavenlies, even to the Throne of Grace. One thing to point out, all the furniture with the exception of the Menorah, was made of Acacia wood overlaid with gold, the wood symbolizes the humanity of Yeshua, and the gold “purity”. The incense was made of various ingredients, but making an exact replica of the original substance is forbidden, most worshippers today that use incense use a mixture of Frankincense and Myrrh, which is readily available. It is a relaxing aroma that helps one to go to sleep at night. …..4. “The Golden Menorah” was made of one solid piece of gold, hammered and formed into a seven-branch candlestick. It had seven lamps which were filled with olive oil and burned all night. In the morning, the priest would come into the Holy Place and trim the wicks and re-fill the lamps with olive oil. We look at the Menorah as “Yeshua Ha Or Olam” (Yeshua who is the light of the world, the Eternal Light) we are the 6 branches that are on either side of the “Shamash” the helper lamp which is in the middle, Yeshua said, “Ye are the light of the world” that means “every believer is a light in dark places” but our light comes from Yeshua” we have no light of our own, like the moon, moon light is sun light reflected off the lunar surface. The oil symbolizes the Ruach Ha Kodesh, (The Holy Spirit) and the wicks are “us” we need to be in contact with the “oil” in order to have brightness. …..5. “The Table of Shewbread” made of hard wood overlaid with gold. Had 12 loaves of bread, symbolizing the 12 tribes of Israel. The table and bread symbolize “Yeshua HaLechem Chayim” (Yeshua the Bread of Life) Even the “unleavened bread” of Passover which symbolizes “Yeshua” who is the unleavened bread” …..6. Outside the holy place are two items, the bronze laver and the Brazen Altar. The bronze laver was a huge bronze bowl filled with water. The priests would wash their hands and feet after offering blood sacrifices. It was made of bronze which symbolizes “judgment” when the water was still, the priest would see his reflection in the water. When we look in still water, or in a mirror, we see our reflection, we see who we are, sinners saved by grace, yet we still have the sin nature, and Yeshua went through “judgment” in our place, we have been “washed” in his blood and made clean. Remember that Yeshua washed the feet of his talmidim. …..7. “the Bronze Altar” (Mizbeach) (pronunciation = “ach” like Yohann Sebastian Bach) not “beach” which is by the ocean, NO! was made of hard wood overlaid with bronze, symbolizing the humanity of Yeshua who was judged in the “fires of our sin”. The animal sacrifices were performed on this altar, the blood was poured out at the base of the altar and the animals roasted on a grill. Think of the Mizbeach as a big BBQ pit. The brazen altar symbolizes the cross of Messiah Yeshua, the animals symbolizing Yeshua himself who poured out his blood for us sinners, who incurred “our judgment” in his own body. …..We see the materials that went into building the tabernacle; gold, silver, bronze, fine linen, wood, blue, purple, scarlet, and animal skins, They all have symbolic meanings; Gold=purity (of Messiah) and the goal of every follower of Mashiach, Silver=redemption (Yeshua redeemed us from the curse of sin) bronze=Judgment (Yeshua was judged for our sins, Fine linen= our new nature and our walk with the LORD, wood=Humanity of Messiah Blue=Heaven, Purple=Royalty, (we are royalty in Messiah Yeshua, part of his royal family) Scarlet=blood. Animal skins=the covering of our sins before, but now, our sins have been erased, not just covered. …..At the end of Exodus, in 40:38 it says that YHVH settled upon the Mishkan in a cloud. Now his presence is visible. Messiah is still with us in the form of the Holy Spirit, WE are the living Tabernacles and the Spirit of God lives in our heart, as well as within the “Kehilot” of believers who come together for worship. There is much more to say, but I better end here, or I’ll be here all night and it is already past midnight. 1 KINGS 7:51-8:21 …..We see here a repetition of the same building project, but on a larger scale. Solomon builds the first “Temple” for the presence of YHVH. Wherein the tabernacle was a mobile structure (kinda like a mobile home) the Temple was a fixed place. He employed thousands of workers, so there wasn’t much unemployment in Israel during that time. It took many years to build whereas the tabernacle was finished in a matter of months. …..It takes time to build a ministry, many years sometimes. But if the goal is to share/teach the Word of God to others, to minister HIS word, then the LORD will bless that work, no matter how small or how big, whether a “mobile” ministry or a “fixed-in-one-place ministry, Adonai will bless and it will last. MARK 10:1-52 …..Here, Yeshua teaches on divorce. This is a big subject, and a sad subject because many couples do not take marriage seriously any more. “Love” is a “commitment” it is a “conscious choice” to care for a person, it has nothing to do with “feelings”, yet “feelings” can lead two people together in order to “make a “love” commitment” Divorce was allowed out of the “hardness of man’s heart” in biblical times, it was instituted by the man, never the woman, all is different now, get tired of your mate? Bored? Run to the lawyer and get a divorce, look for a new mate, someone more exciting and full of life. This is the mentality of the world, but not the mentality of God. The only biblical reason for allowing divorce is adultery, and for unbelief, if there is a mixed marriage and the unbeliever refuses to live with the believer, “let him (or her) depart” for we are not called to strife. All the more reason to be “equally yoked together, believers with other believers” Personally, divorce should be a last choice if one is living in a “hell hole” and the mate is a “unholy terror” but let’s not even go there now, we need to lift up our mates in prayer and pray for understanding one with the other. We are all different, and our mates complement our weaknesses, and through our mates, our weaknesses become “strong” …..It is almost 1 AM, I am definitely going to bed now…………Shabbat Shalom Rabbi Petersen
  16. Welcome to Worthy Nudgee. I have to ask, did you come here legally? If not, I will have to report you to Internet Cyber Enforcers, which we normally just call them I.C.E. for short.
  17. Hi Jacob Ben Avraham Welcome to Worthy..So glad you joined God bless you
  18. Nowhere does the Bible teach that death = separation. This notion comes from Plato which is ironic given the fact that you've accused me of using philosphy instead of scripture to argue my case. "We believe, do we not, that death is the separation of the soul from the body, and that the state of being dead is the state in which the body is separated from the soul and exists alone by itself and the soul is separated from the body and exists alone by itself? Is death anything other than this?" - Plato’s Phaedo, section 64c It is also through Plato that the notion that all souls including the unsaved are immortal comes from. When the Bible refers to the fate of the unsaved it never defines death as separation, but it regularly uses it in conjunction with words like perish and destroy.
  19. Punishment does not necessarily = burning. Eternal separation from God through death would be punishment as well..
  20. Again I have made it clear that I believe the punishment is eternal because the unsaved will lose their lives forever. Moreover I've made it abundantly clear that my position is that the unsaved will die. Whether or not bits remain or nothing remains is irrelevant to me. The verses you've cited have been addressed before.
  21. Our reading of scripture should be informed by the genre and figures of speech should not be taken at face value. Apocalyptic symbolism should not be taken at face value, and pointing that out is not an instance of allegorising/spiritualising. How does one show that a figure of speech is at play? By showing where the same images and phrasing is being used elsewhere and where the bible itself attaches a different meaning. This I have done, so I believe I have satisfied the requirements of being true to scripture and sound exegesis.
  22. shanee

    Newbetronic

    Welcome to Worthy nudgee
  23. But he was wounded for our transgressions, and he was crushed for our iniquities, and the punishment that made us whole was upon him (Isaiah 53:5)
  24. To clarify, Annhihilationsism is NOT the same thing as Conditonal Immortality.
  25. "The worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched" is one of Jesus' favourite descriptions of Hell It's a straight quote from Isaiah 66:24. The interesting thing is that in that passage, as I read it, Isaiah is NOT talking about eternal conscious torment. The people he is describing are not suffering; they are dead corpses rotting and being destroyed on the rubbish heap.
  26. Secular=unbelievers usually believe that they will not be held accountable. The point is that it is the Holy Spirit Who reveals to people that they will suffer eternally for rejecting the Christ and for their sin. They don't need to be taught that.
  27. And "eternal" can just as easily be interpreted as "permanent" - i.e. there is no escape from eternal punishment and no risk of us losing eternal life. Deborah, thank you for bringing up a challenge. I agree that the Rich man and Lazarus is speaking of the intermediate state as you have pointed out. The argument however, is that there is no hope offered for the pleas of agony. If no pity is offered here, there would be no reason to suggest that this attitude of God about pity for those who reject His ways would exist in His Eternal Punishment after the Judgement. The replacement of meaning of "permanent" for "eternal" is not warranted from the Scriptures. In 42 occurrences aion speaks of an "age", and the 42 times used, aionios is translated consistently as "eternal." If there were examples of it being a loose term, the translators would have likely varied their translation. Sorry, but the alternative usage of a word in this case does not appear credible to me. As a former Atheist, annihilation would have appeared better than heaven to me! What could be better than the non-existence after death that I already believed was true?
  28. Did Jesus take our punishment? Yes! If our punishment is everlasting torment for not trusting in Jesus, then why is he not currently burning for eternity?
  29. If Hell is no threat, but a simple annihilation, why even bring it up as a warning? Why wouldn't the Bible just dwell on the positive; heaven? a reward for being right? I do not see in the example of the Rich man and Lazarus that those that are in torment will have their pain eased. 2 Thes. 1:9, speaking of those who "do not obey the gospel of Christ"(8)... "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction..." Is "everlasting"temporary? If it is temporary, why doesn't it say so? Eternal punishment in Matt. 25: 41; 46. It juxtaposed against "eternal life" for the righteous. If punishment that is "eternal" is limited and temporary, does that mean that "life" which is a reward to the righteous just a "limited" time offer too?
  30. God answered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My grandson went to talk with the judge, and I was praying heavily. My daughter called and told us my grandson told the judge that his father and grandmother cursed his mom IN FRONT OF HIM. He told the judge that he got a stomachache when he was forced to his fathers, and he did not want to see him again. I prayed something I read years back in one of Mark Bubeck's books: Lord, put your holy finger on them and cause them to make foolish and stupid mistakes. That is what they did! After 9 months of not seeing his son, he's vile in front of him. My daughter also received a timely call from CPS that her ex was "not cooperating" with them. I think it was on drug tests. I told her to notify her lawyer. AMEN! The judge told my grandson he wasn't going to force him to see his father again! Finally a sense of relief! My daughter wants something in writing so that her ex cannot come back like this again - it cost us a lot of money, and her ex owes her $10,000 + in back child support. Thank you so so very much for your prayers and faithfulness!!! "Surely God has heard my prayers, He has given heed to the voice of my supplications." Psalm 66:19
  31. Arguing about if hell is forever and ever and a day, or you just burn to ash and are no more is so silly. And here is why... You can not ever pay for your sins, no matter how much or long the punishment is. There was only One found worthy to open the seals in heaven, there is only One Holy One of Israel, there is only One Name in which salvation can be obtained. Only one Lamb without spot or blemish upon the altar. No one can ever pay for their own sins so there is no reason to think hell has an end when it says... matt 25:31 Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. How do we derive torment in hell has an end with Gods Word using words like everlasting? Shall we say argue, well it does not actually say you are in torment forever??? Please, God is specific with His words. Its not a tradition, its the word of God. Even more... And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. That does not sound much like an allegory to me, what saith thou? Allegory or nay nay?!
  32. I hold to the position that we are composed of spirit, soul and body. The spirits of the unsaved are already dead unless they repent. In heaven the spirits of the saved return to the Father of spirits, but the soul or self is saved and is immortal., it will receive a spiritual or imperishable body and live in eternal bliss with Jesus the Creator . In death the body of the unsaved shall decay and for all our purposes shall cease to exist, but their souls shall be in torment forever; I didn't take physics, but I remember something about matter never truly ceases to exist but changes into another form such as gases or energy. The torment would be eternal separation of the soul from light and all that is good, from God, and being numbered with darkness, pain and sorrow, all that is evil and destructive energy.
  33. Not saying, it does not deserve it's own thread, just pointing out, that at least one exists: and unless you have an objection to it, I think maybe the threads can be combined. Seems like this is a doctrinal issue, not a general one anyway. Unless you have some objection, I'd like to unite the two threads, while this one is still young.
  34. I believe that Scripture teaches that everyone will exist forever, either in Heaven with Christ or in the Lake of Fire with Satan. It does make a difference because if those who aren't saved believe that they will not spend eternity in Hell but cease to exist, then they can feel that they really have nothing to lose; even if they do believe that those who are saved will live forever.
  35. Thank you very much, for taking the time , and answering the questions. God bless
  36. Mark 8:34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. www . biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=RSV&quicksearch=follow&begin=1&end=46&limit=500 www . biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=RSV&quicksearch=follow&begin=47&end=73&limit=500
  37. this is the Prayer request section...im not sure but you might want to put this in a Question section.GB
  38. BIG GIANT NOTICE!!! BIG GIANT NOTICE!!! There, that is better! I am about to post a post, that was originally made by EZRA on Jan 26, 2016. The thread was VERY active, extraordinarily so. The debate became very heated, very quickly, and there was no way that the moderators could arrest it's development. We had to shut the thread down, and a lot of good posts we lost in the process. The topic was not the problem, the passion of the posters was. When people become ugly and insulting, and question each other's salvation for not sharing the same opinions as others, a thread becomes inappropriate for a Christian forum and more importantly, it reflects badly those who claim to be disciples of Jesus, and by extension it reflects badly on Jesus, because as His body, we are ambassadors carrying His message. We (beleivers) are the family of God, and we as brothers and sisters, might have some family squabbles now and again. However, what is not an option, is failing to love one another and to respect one another as coheirs with Christ. So . . . Here is the deal. The preivous thread was so corrupted, it is really beyond repair. I know, because I tried. It was really beyond reasonable repair. However, this time we have a tool that we had not previously employed. If a person gets out of line here, they will simply be banned from the thread, It is not about what your opinion is, it is about how you treat each other. Step out of line, you are banned from the thread, we do not have the time to babysit. So, if you want to participate, then check your post and be sure it is dignified, BEFORE you hit that enter key. What follows, is brother Exra's un-edited original post. He went to a lot of trouble to put this information, and I hope you appreciate that fact whether or not you agree with his conclusions. He said: ******************************************************************************* There are many heterodox groups (such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists) who reject the Bible doctrine of Hell (the Lake of Fire). We also have so-called “evangelicals” (read theological liberals) such as Clark Pinnock who reject this Bible doctrine. And now we have several posters on Worthy who are attempting to “prove” that there is no eternal Hell where sinners are in conscious everlasting torment. One has to wonder what they gain from misleading others, since they will give account for every wrong word. So the only way to refute false doctrine is with Bible truth, and I trust that many Christians will take heed to what the Bible actually states (NOT what we would like to believe, since if it were up to us, not one of us would want to believe that there is a real Hell). The Bible must be taken in its plain, literal sense unless it clear that we are looking at a figure of speech, a metaphor, or a symbol. Also, Scripture must be compared with Scripture to determine Bible truth. Sheol/Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus: Sheol (Hebrew) and Hades (Greek) refer to the same place in “the heart of the earth” where the souls of the departed and unsaved dead go to await their final judgment, whereas Gehenna (Greek) refers to “the Lake of Fire” which is in “outer darkness”, and is presently unoccupied. Tartarus is reserved strictly for “the angels which kept not their first estate” and are also awaiting their final judgment. The confusion arises because the translators of the KJV used the English word “hell” indiscriminately, rather than transliterating the different words to distinguish each place. However “everlasting” means “everlasting”, and “eternal” means “eternal”, and no amount of semantic games will change that. HELL WAS CREATED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS, BUT IS ALSO FOR THE CURSED, AND A PLACE OF EVERLASTING FIRE Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Mt 25:41). HELL IS IN “OUTER DARKNESS”, WHERE THERE IS WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Mt 8:11,12) Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Mt 22:13) And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Mt 25:30) HELL IS FOR THE WICKED AND FOR THOSE THAT FORGET GOD The wicked shall be turned into hell [Sheol], and all the nations that forget God (Ps 9:17). HELL IS A PLACE OF DAMNATION FOR THE WICKED AND THE UNBELIEVING Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Mt 23:33). He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:16). HELL AND EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION GO TOGETHER Hell [Sheol] and destruction [abbadown = perishing] are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men? (Prov 15:11). Hell [Sheol] and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied. (Prov 27:20). Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: (Mt 7:13). Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thess 1:9). [Note: the word “perish” (or “destruction”) means eternal ruin, not annihilation, because it is “eternal destruction”. See John 3:15,16] [Question: Why would Christ need to die for sinners, if eventually they would all be annihilated (wiped out) anyhow?] HELL IS A PLACE OF “DEVOURING FIRE” AND “EVERLASTING BURNINGS” FOR SINNERS AND HYPOCRITES The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? (Isa 33:14). But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (Mt 5:22). HELL IS A PLACE OF “UNQUENCHABLE FIRE” OR “EVERLASTING HELL FIRE” Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. (Mt 3:12). Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. (Mt 18:8,9). And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (Mk 9:43-48) [Question: If Hell is not eternal torment, why would Christ repeat His words over and over again? The corrupt Bibles have expunged these words of warning.] THE “TARES” (THE WICKED OR UNSAVED) ARE BURNED IN A “FURNACE OF FIRE” Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn... The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth... So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Mt 13:30,38-42; 49-50). BODIES (ALONG WITH SOULS) ARE CAST INTO HELL And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell [Gehenna]. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and notthat thy whole body should be cast into hell [Gehenna]. (Mt 5:29,30). And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mt 10:28). [“Fear Him” refers to God] HELL IS A PLACE OF “EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT” Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Mt 25:45,46). [Naysayers please note the precise contrast between “everlasting punishment” and “life eternal”]. EVEN HADES (NOT ETERNAL) IS A PLACE OF TORMENT AND FLAMES And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell[Hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (Lk 16:22-24).[Naysayers: This is NOT a parable, since parables don’t have actual people in dialogue with each other]. Note: When Scripture says that death and Hades (not Hell) were cast into the Lake of Fire, Death and Hades are personifications for all the unsaved dead which are occupants of Hades, and are ultimately cast into the Lake of Fire. Death and Hades are also personified in Rev 6:8. HELL (THE LAKE OF FIRE) IS A PLACE OF ETERNAL TORMENT And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Rev 14:9-11). THE UNHOLY TRINITY WILL BE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone... And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev 19:20;20:10) THE UNSAVED AND ALL SINNERS WILL BE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire... But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev 20:15; 21:8).
  39. There's a big difference between Tradition and Bible Truth. Bible Truth -- in this case -- has been accepted traditionally, while only the cults have rejected it.
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