The Day of the Lord, will the church be raptured?

[Salty]

 

 

Salty if we understand the manner of christs return, then we will understand the timing of Jesus return....

 

I'm simply asking you a easy question....what does the bible say about the manner of christ's return...inother words, do you believe the manner in which christ ascended to heaven will be the same manner he descends? Do you believe Jesus will be surrounded by clouds and we fly to mid air to met him? That is the manner of which I am talking about? 

 

and yes I do believe in Jesus return literal but I am challenging you on your comments of Holy writ and and its "obvious i don't believe scripture" when in fact Ill use scripture to interpret scripture 

 

 

I believe the Scriptures as written, and Acts declares Christ's return in like manner how He ascended to Heaven, the Mount of Olives involved. That is one of the subjects of Zech.14 also.

 

But if you want a much greater specific, then no, I do not believe the "caught up" idea of 1 Thess.4 how it is traditionally interpreted. It can only be weighed in conjunction with the events Apostle Paul also taught on that day involving the change at a twinkling of an eye to the "spiritual body".

 

So will that "caught up" event involve literal clouds? Maybe, since His disciples saw Him ascend in a cloud, but the greater detail is that it will occur regarding one's "spiritual body". So now one gets into an idea of the limitations of the "spiritual body" and its dimension of existence, which must be compared with Christ's body after His resurrection, because that's what that day of His coming is about, the resurrection of the asleep saints and the change of His servants still alive on earth at an instant to be joined to them when He brings them with Him, to go to... where?

[Spock]

Inchrist,

Start here. What does God mean when he says, "no wrath is appointed unto you...."

[ARGOSY]

Inchrist,

Start here. What does God mean when he says, "no wrath is appointed unto you...."

Context seems to be referring to the "day of the Lord", a day of wrath when destruction will come on the unsaved suddenly. According to context, we will obviously not experience that wrath on the day of the Lord.

 

5 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord [a]will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then[b]destruction [c]will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. 7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. 8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ

 

Knowing that Christians always have troubles and persecutions in this world, I'm sure this particular sentence is clearly related to its own context, the day of the Lord.

[Spock]

Inchrist,

Start here. What does God mean when he says, "no wrath is appointed unto you...."

 

The same meaning God prescribed to the Israelities in the 8 plauges of Egypt

So there you go.

Rev 6:12 says the wrath of God begins.....

God says you don't get to experience his wrath.....

Say bye bye.....or at the very least if you still are not convinced of a rapture, you will be protected (rev 3:10)

[Spock]

Inchrist,

If you don't see the rapture in 1 thess 4 or 1 cor 15 as I previously cited, then you don't see it. (For now......who knows, maybe later you will)

Holy kiss if you are female

Big masculine hug if male

[Spock]

Inchrist,

If you don't see the rapture in 1 thess 4 or 1 cor 15 as I previously cited, then you don't see it. (For now......who knows, maybe later you will)

Holy kiss if you are female

Big masculine hug if male

 

Collectively if I look at the entire rapture doctrine, rapturists are unsure themselves...

 

Personally i just don't see a need for it...its just one of those topics we can only guess...

 

Holy kiss if im a girl...yuck...lol

Big masculine hug if im a male...still a bit to close...how about a high five??

Admittedly I am not 100% sure of the timing of the rapture, but I'm always watching, very alert, and on my knees praying that I would be able to escape all things that are about to come upon this world. (Luke 21:36)

High five it is,

Spock out

[Salty]

 

Inchrist,

Start here. What does God mean when he says, "no wrath is appointed unto you...."

Context seems to be referring to the "day of the Lord", a day of wrath when destruction will come on the unsaved suddenly. According to context, we will obviously not experience that wrath on the day of the Lord.

 

5 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord [a]will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then[b]destruction [c]will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. 7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. 8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ

 

Knowing that Christians always have troubles and persecutions in this world, I'm sure this particular sentence is clearly related to its own context, the day of the Lord.

 

 

But that does not mean we have to be removed off the earth like the Left-Behind books and movies in order to not suffer God's wrath upon the wicked at that moment.

 

What I see on that day of The Lord is how the change at the twinkling of an eye will affect everyone on earth, a sudden change to the spiritual body for those in Christ, and as a plague upon the wicked like Zech.14 shows, coming at an instant like Isaiah shows. This is why it is impossible for me to believe that any peoples will continue into the thousand years with their flesh body, because like Peter said (2 Pet.3:10), God's consuming fire is going to burn man's works off this earth on that day (see end of Heb.12 also). The Isaiah 25 Scripture is about God removing the veil cast over all peoples on that day, as that's where Apostle Paul was pulling from about death being swallowed up.

[Last Daze]

God never raptured the Israelites when God was unleashing the 8 Plagues but I get your point, either way we can agree that God will protect us

 

I agree.  He took Lot and family out of Sodom, He had Noah build an ark, the Israelites sheltered in place.  Three different ways.  Why not a fourth?

 

I personally believe in a 6th seal rapture but, as you say, God will protect us.

[ARGOSY]

 

 

Inchrist,

Start here. What does God mean when he says, "no wrath is appointed unto you...."

Context seems to be referring to the "day of the Lord", a day of wrath when destruction will come on the unsaved suddenly. According to context, we will obviously not experience that wrath on the day of the Lord.

 

5 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord [a]will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then[b]destruction [c]will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. 7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. 8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ

 

Knowing that Christians always have troubles and persecutions in this world, I'm sure this particular sentence is clearly related to its own context, the day of the Lord.

 

 

But that does not mean we have to be removed off the earth like the Left-Behind books and movies in order to not suffer God's wrath upon the wicked at that moment.

 

What I see on that day of The Lord is how the change at the twinkling of an eye will affect everyone on earth, a sudden change to the spiritual body for those in Christ, and as a plague upon the wicked like Zech.14 shows, coming at an instant like Isaiah shows. This is why it is impossible for me to believe that any peoples will continue into the thousand years with their flesh body, because like Peter said (2 Pet.3:10), God's consuming fire is going to burn man's works off this earth on that day (see end of Heb.12 also). The Isaiah 25 Scripture is about God removing the veil cast over all peoples on that day, as that's where Apostle Paul was pulling from about death being swallowed up.

 

 

 

I think that would be a discussion for a millenium thread, not a rapture thread. For some reason the translators overdramatised the language of 2 Peter 3 when compared to the Greek, and some of the words , even in English usage, have changed their meaning. When we read words such as "elements", "heavens", "earth" ... these words had different meanings during the KJV times compared to now. But I do agree with you man's works are destroyed (buildings, factories etc)

[Salty]

 

 

 

But that does not mean we have to be removed off the earth like the Left-Behind books and movies in order to not suffer God's wrath upon the wicked at that moment.

 

What I see on that day of The Lord is how the change at the twinkling of an eye will affect everyone on earth, a sudden change to the spiritual body for those in Christ, and as a plague upon the wicked like Zech.14 shows, coming at an instant like Isaiah shows. This is why it is impossible for me to believe that any peoples will continue into the thousand years with their flesh body, because like Peter said (2 Pet.3:10), God's consuming fire is going to burn man's works off this earth on that day (see end of Heb.12 also). The Isaiah 25 Scripture is about God removing the veil cast over all peoples on that day, as that's where Apostle Paul was pulling from about death being swallowed up.

 

 

 

I think that would be a discussion for a millenium thread, not a rapture thread. For some reason the translators overdramatised the language of 2 Peter 3 when compared to the Greek, and some of the words , even in English usage, have changed their meaning. When we read words such as "elements", "heavens", "earth" ... these words had different meanings during the KJV times compared to now. But I do agree with you man's works are destroyed (buildings, factories etc)

 

 

You mean you don't believe the "day of the Lord" events and Apostle Paul's "last trump" change at the twinkling of an eye has anything to do with the 'harpazo' event, what some call the 'rapture'?

 

The word "elements" in the Greek of 2 Pet.3:10 does not mean literal material matter, it means an ordinal of time, like a world age. The subject of world ages, and God's previous destruction of that, and the coming new heavens and a new earth, is what that chapter is about. Peter linked the time of the "day of the Lord" with God destroying that "elements" by His consuming fire. The OT prophets provide the rest, because will involve a burning of the works of man off this earth, like how God destroyed man works off the earth with the flood of Noah's day. That's why 2 Pet.3 is talking about a previous flood upon this earth to destroy a previous world age.

 

Same type of subject is given at the end of Hebrews 12...

 

Heb.12:25-29

²⁵ See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

²⁶ Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

²⁷ And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

²⁸ Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

²⁹ For our God is a consuming fire.