Revelation 12 ( 7-11 )

[Sister]

On 04/07/2016 at 1:46 PM, Jonah'sJourney said:

If Satan's casting down in verse 9 is a consequence of the Resurrection, who are those in verse 10 who "overcame him (past tense, aorist active indicative) because of the blood of the Lamb"? Since the blood of the Lamb refers to the death of Christ, that would mean they overcame Satan by means of the crucifixion prior to the crucifixion.

Also, according to 1:1, 3, the book has to do with future events, not past events.

Hi Jonah'sJourney

Rev 12 is condensed and in the exact order of events.

 Revelation 12:1   And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Verse 1 is symbolic.  It's very hard to grasp for many that this "woman" is depicting God's doctrine. His teachings are heavenly, from above.  The same God who delivered his laws to the 12 tribes of Israel, is about to deliver his teachings now through Christ who is about to come into the world.....

This woman has a name and her name is Zion.  She stands for the City of Truth.  Because of Christ, the gentiles will also be invited to dwell spiritually in Zion....but first Christ has to be born flesh and grow before he delivers his message which comes from above.

Revelation 12:2   And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Mary and Joseph had to flee to Egypt and hide from Herod before Christ was born.  The "She" who was with child is not Mary,  but Zion herself, being persecuted (spiritually speaking), even before her teachings are delivered.  This message concerns the spiritual and not the flesh.  Jesus is about to come out of Zion (her teachings) which he will deliver.

Revelation 12:3   And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Whilst Mary and Joseph fled to Egypt before the birth, the dragon must still be in heaven as stated.  What's he doing there?

Revelation 12:4   And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

God hid the unborn Jesus in Egypt from the dragon.  Satan is desperate, therefore has gone into heaven to draw a third of the angels to kill Jesus as soon as he is born.  He needs them here on the earth for this job.

Revelation 12:5   And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Now Jesus is born. The woman has delivered her child.  This is condensed.  We all know Jesus grows up and delivers his teachings, then killed and resurrected up to God.

Revelation 12:6   And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Jesus taught his apostles and commanded them to go out into the world and preach the kingdom of God after his departure.  The world is the wilderness, and the woman is the teachings that come from above, Zion.  Paul sent his armies out to go after the apostles, and they were hid for 3 1/2 yrs in the world, keeping the doctrine alive and protecting it from the dragon.  This is the "start" of the 3 1/2 yrs.

Revelation 12:7   And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

All the angels were commanded to honor and serve Jesus.  The dragon and his angels had disobeyed.  When Jesus was resurrected, he exercised his authority, and with his loyal angels, a battle in heaven took place and Jesus cast the dragon and his angels out of heaven for once and for good.

Revelation 12:8   And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Job done.

Revelation 12:10   And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Salvation came the day Jesus rose from the dead.  This is that same day the dragon and angels were defeated.  Jesus is Lord of all now, and all authority given.

Revelation 12:11   And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

This is condensed and it started with the apostles, as Jesus taught them how to overcome the dragon by giving them all the tools (truth) to resist him, and this continues to even now for all the saints who abide in the truth.  "And they loved not their lives unto death", means they put Christ first before everything, even their own lives.  Doesn't mean they were all killed, but obeyed fully.

 Revelation 12:12   Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The devil is not coming, for he has already come down unto us.  He has always been here since the beginning, but has no more access to heaven after Christ's resurrection.  Therefore he is here 24/7 with his angels and full of wrath.

This vision was given to John many years after Christ already rose from the dead, and to show us why the devil is so angry, because his plan didn't go the way he wanted to and this chapter gives a little more understanding why the devil hates God's children and is so full of wrath.  He is demoted, reduced to licking the dust, awaiting his punishment whilst we are fed with good spiritual food awaiting the promise of the coming of our Lord.

Zion will give birth to all her children in one day at the resurrection of the saints, but before we get our change, she will also go through labor pains, persecution of her children before they can be born, which is our tribulations.

[other one]

2 hours ago, Sister said:

Verse 1 is symbolic. 

 

I don't think so......   that verse actually appears in the skies in September of next year.

[Ezra]

On 6/10/2016 at 8:43 PM, ghtan said:

Therefore according to verse 7 Satan has already been cast down,

As soon as Satan is cast down, he takes full control of this world with the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years (Rev 12 & 13).  So he is still *the prince of the power of the air* until the Restrainer is taken out of the way.  That only happens after the Rapture.

[Sister]

5 hours ago, other one said:

I don't think so......   that verse actually appears in the skies in September of next year.

Other One, we have talked about this before, and all prophesy is recorded for us already.  There is nothing that can be added or taken away to what is already written.  What you are waiting for is an event that is not mentioned in the scriptures.  Christ warned us to feed on his flesh only, and to stay away from strange flesh.  This is where many stumble without realising it.  The answers are already in the scriptures, and the understanding given from above based on these scriptures, not what man makes up, trying to force whatever into prophecy leading us astray.

 

The last prophet was John of Revelation.  After this there are no more prophets....none who can add anything to what is already written and given.  We are given everything already, and the only other prophets to come are the two witnesses who will preach for 1260 days in Jerusalem.  They will be confirming the scriptures already written and their ministry will be powerful with signs, eg sending plagues forth into the earth and demonstrating God's power in them.

[angels4u]

15 minutes ago, Sister said:

Other One, we have talked about this before, and all prophesy is recorded for us already.  There is nothing that can be added or taken away to what is already written.  What you are waiting for is an event that is not mentioned in the scriptures.  Christ warned us to feed on his flesh only, and to stay away from strange flesh.  This is where many stumble without realising it.  The answers are already in the scriptures, and the understanding given from above based on these scriptures, not what man makes up, trying to force whatever into prophecy leading us astray.

 

The last prophet was John of Revelation.  After this there are no more prophets....none who can add anything to what is already written and given.  We are given everything already, and the only other prophets to come are the two witnesses who will preach for 1260 days in Jerusalem.  They will be confirming the scriptures already written and their ministry will be powerful with signs, eg sending plagues forth into the earth and demonstrating God's power in them.

 

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 Christ warned us to feed on his flesh only, and to stay away from strange flesh

Sister,can you explain this verse?

Where do you read to feed on Jesus flesh? 

[ghtan]

4 hours ago, Ezra said:

As soon as Satan is cast down, he takes full control of this world with the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years (Rev 12 & 13).  So he is still *the prince of the power of the air* until the Restrainer is taken out of the way.  That only happens after the Rapture.

Nothing in Rev 12 says Satan takes full control of this world after he is cast down from heaven. He is simply more active in the world. I think Rev 12 talks about the present situation since the cross. Look how it ends in verse 17. Hardly something worth saying after the Rapture as Satan will have been making war against Christians (=the offspring of the woman) for at least two thousand years.    

[Ezra]

23 minutes ago, ghtan said:

Nothing in Rev 12 says Satan takes full control of this world after he is cast down from heaven.

That's why I quoted Revelation 12 & 13. Please study both together.

[ghtan]

4 minutes ago, Ezra said:

That's why I quoted Revelation 12 & 13. Please study both together.

The events of Rev 13 comes AFTER the events of Rev 12. That is why they are placed that way.

[other one]

2 hours ago, Sister said:

Other One, we have talked about this before, and all prophesy is recorded for us already.  There is nothing that can be added or taken away to what is already written.  What you are waiting for is an event that is not mentioned in the scriptures.  Christ warned us to feed on his flesh only, and to stay away from strange flesh.  This is where many stumble without realising it.  The answers are already in the scriptures, and the understanding given from above based on these scriptures, not what man makes up, trying to force whatever into prophecy leading us astray.

 

The last prophet was John of Revelation.  After this there are no more prophets....none who can add anything to what is already written and given.  We are given everything already, and the only other prophets to come are the two witnesses who will preach for 1260 days in Jerusalem.  They will be confirming the scriptures already written and their ministry will be powerful with signs, eg sending plagues forth into the earth and demonstrating God's power in them.

And John of Revelation told us of the great vision in the heavens....   you say it hasn't been written about and I say that John wrote about it  LoL   I'm not making up anything new; it's been right there in the Bible for nearly 2,000 years....   I just happen to have a stellarium program that can see when it will be....   and that it has never been....   as of yet anyway.....   and will not be again for at least 7,000 years that I have personally checked.  

 

you can take it to heart or not, matters not to me, but others that come here need to at least be exposed to the possibilities.

[Jonah'sJourney]

As I previously noted, Revelation 1:1, 3 make it clear that John is writing about things that, at the time he wrote, had not yet occurred. This includes the events depicted in chapter 12.

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that the woman represents God's doctrine from heaven. Although the woman is seen "in heaven," she dwells on the earth, as is seen by the fact that her child is "caught up to God and to his throne" (v. 5), after which she is persecuted on earth by the devil after he is thrown down (vv. 12-13).

The throwing down of Satan in verse 9 is not a past event (see first paragraph, above), but a future one. Note in verse 12 that after he is thrown down to the earth, he has only a "short time." It's been nearly 2000 years since the Resurrection, which is not a "short time."

But you obviously love Jesus, and our fellowship is in him!