Pre-tribbers, what do you have

[ARGOSY]

Salty

 

 

Then rest of mankind (2/3's) who were not killed by the three plagues continued to worship demons and idols, per Rev 9:20.  And they repented not.  It cannot get much clearer than that.  A strong delusion.  Yet, I will remove the sin of this land in a single day (Zech 3:9),  The Second Coming.

 

I cannot accept a demon and idol worshiping Church during this period of time, or at all.  So this Post - Trib doctrine theory of many is out the window.  There is no substance to the Post - Trib theory.  They cannot even get the scenes in Heaven and on Earth correct.

 

A know this is quite sharp.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

Marv, who then do you believe is on the earth to be gathered by the angels as per Matthew 24?  At the second coming, the angels gather the elect, and others are left behind. So surely you also believe in two groups of people during the tribulation?  How would you explain the tribulation "elect" , are they included in the "rest of mankind" who are idol worshippers? 

[other one]

My personal view is that this is most likely the rapture,

 

Rev 13:13-17
 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.  And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.  And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead,  and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

[ARGOSY]

My personal view is that this is most likely the rapture,

 

Rev 13:13-17

 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.  And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.  And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead,  and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

 

I'm not really following you how the rapture or Rev 13 is connected to Rev 9:20.  Do you believe there are "tribulation saints" alive when the "rest of mankind" are worshipping idols? This occurs before the 7th trumpet. Do you believe even the tribulation elect are already gathered at that stage at the second coming?

[Salty]

 

 

 

I don't see us with The Father anywhere during Christ's thousand years reign on earth. Rev.5:10 is specific that Christ's elect priests and kings will reign... on the earth, and elsewhere is written reigning with Christ with the "rod of iron" over the nations.

That is because we have already been with the Father in Heaven, and been in His house, and been untied to the Bridegroom and received our crowns of glory.  We receive our assignments in heaven so we know how we will reign with Him/Christ on earth during the 1000 years.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

You know by now I don't subscribe to that pre-trib rapture theory. When our Lord Jesus comes to end the tribulation that's when He will gather His Church, from heaven and from the earth on the way to Jerusalem. That's where His elect priests will reign with Him from, as that's where the "mansions" (abodes) of the priests will be, in the holy city.

 

Salty

 

Then rest of mankind (2/3's) who were not killed by the three plagues continued to worship demons and idols, per Rev 9:20.  And they repented not.  It cannot get much clearer than that.  A strong delusion.  Yet, I will remove the sin of this land in a single day (Zech 3:9),  The Second Coming.

 

I cannot accept a demon and idol worshiping Church during this period of time, or at all.  So this Post - Trib doctrine theory of many is out the window.  There is no substance to the Post - Trib theory.  They cannot even get the scenes in Heaven and on Earth correct.

 

A know this is quite sharp.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

Well, I think we've been there before about Rev.9, it is the tribulation time on the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe, Christ's coming to gather His Church that will still be alive on the earth and not... worshipping demons is on the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe, and 7th vial.

 

The idea of Greek 'harpazo' (KJV "caught up") in 1 Thess.4 is not about The Church on earth taken to Heaven to live out the tribulation. Per 1 Thess.4 the events are no.1 - Christ returns to this earth bringing the asleep saints with Him, and no.2 - He gathers His saints still alive on earth with them on His way to Jerusalem on earth. And to show how that means many He will bring to Jerusalem, on earth, in Jude 1 Enoch was quoted as saying Christ will come with ten thousands of His saints.

[RustyAngeL]

I don't know of any pre,mid or post trib  passages either.  I just believe that when I read Tribulation I see punishment being being poured on world for the sins of the world.  We as Christians have already been forgiven for our sins at Calvary.  Our sins, past , present and future are already  covered under the blood of Jesus and His finished work at the cross.  To be judged again and to live through the tribulation would be like what the law calls,  "Double Jeopardy".  This is just my opinion.

[other one]

 

My personal view is that this is most likely the rapture,

 

Rev 13:13-17

 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.  And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.  And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead,  and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

 

I'm not really following you how the rapture or Rev 13 is connected to Rev 9:20.  Do you believe there are "tribulation saints" alive when the "rest of mankind" are worshipping idols? This occurs before the 7th trumpet. Do you believe even the tribulation elect are already gathered at that stage at the second coming?

 

I think the vast majority of Christians will be killed by the two beasts......     Not sure I see the great benefit of living through all that wrath myself.

[ARGOSY]

 

 

My personal view is that this is most likely the rapture,

 

Rev 13:13-17

 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.  And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.  And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead,  and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

 

I'm not really following you how the rapture or Rev 13 is connected to Rev 9:20.  Do you believe there are "tribulation saints" alive when the "rest of mankind" are worshipping idols? This occurs before the 7th trumpet. Do you believe even the tribulation elect are already gathered at that stage at the second coming?

 

I think the vast majority of Christians will be killed by the two beasts......     Not sure I see the great benefit of living through all that wrath myself.

 

 

Ok , but then I don't see why you could see fault with the post-trib crowd for feeling there are a few elect survivors at that 6th trumpet, when you yourself feel there are a few elect survivors at the 6th trumpet.  I agree its possible that the vast majority are killed by the two beasts, but certainly at the second coming the angels do gather the living elect as per Matthew 24

[other one]

 

 

 

My personal view is that this is most likely the rapture,

 

Rev 13:13-17

 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.  And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.  And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead,  and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

 

I'm not really following you how the rapture or Rev 13 is connected to Rev 9:20.  Do you believe there are "tribulation saints" alive when the "rest of mankind" are worshipping idols? This occurs before the 7th trumpet. Do you believe even the tribulation elect are already gathered at that stage at the second coming?

 

I think the vast majority of Christians will be killed by the two beasts......     Not sure I see the great benefit of living through all that wrath myself.

 

 

Ok , but then I don't see why you could see fault with the post-trib crowd for feeling there are a few elect survivors at that 6th trumpet, when you yourself feel there are a few elect survivors at the 6th trumpet.  I agree its possible that the vast majority are killed by the two beasts, but certainly at the second coming the angels do gather the living elect as per Matthew 24

 

there is the 144,000

[ARGOSY]

 

 

 

Ok , but then I don't see why you could see fault with the post-trib crowd for feeling there are a few elect survivors at that 6th trumpet, when you yourself feel there are a few elect survivors at the 6th trumpet.  I agree its possible that the vast majority are killed by the two beasts, but certainly at the second coming the angels do gather the living elect as per Matthew 24

 

there is the 144,000

 

 

 

So... do you feel that there will be no surviving tribulation saints until the 144 000 are saved only at the end of the tribulation?    And its these 144 000 which are gathered at the second coming?

[other one]

 

 

 

 

Ok , but then I don't see why you could see fault with the post-trib crowd for feeling there are a few elect survivors at that 6th trumpet, when you yourself feel there are a few elect survivors at the 6th trumpet.  I agree its possible that the vast majority are killed by the two beasts, but certainly at the second coming the angels do gather the living elect as per Matthew 24

 

there is the 144,000

 

 

 

So... do you feel that there will be no surviving tribulation saints until the 144 000 are saved only at the end of the tribulation?    And its these 144 000 which are gathered at the second coming?

 

I don't believe there is detail enough to know that.......