Pre-tribbers, what do you have

[ARGOSY]

I took in a kitty rescue today. The woman who brought the cat to me started talking about politics and said she thinks it's the end times with all that's happening now.

 

Could be the tribulation. One never knows. But the other day  I was listening to an old broadcast on Family Talk Sirius radio and a sermon by Dr. David Jeremiah. He said if we start seeing the antichrist acting out in politics or elsewhere in the world we should worry. Because per the scriptures the rapture has come and we've been left behind.   Wouldn't that be a blip?

 

This is the reason some of us post-tribs like to preach post-trib.  So that those pre-tribs can be encouraged when they find themselves in the very situation you are describing. 

 

I don't need to convince a pre-trib to change their doctrine, its pretty simple, if a pre-trib sees the antichrist coming to power and deceiving the whole world as described in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13, do not be discouraged!  You have not been left behind, Jesus is about to appear in a few years time to rescue you from the day of wrath and so we will be with the Lord forever!  Be encouraged you pre-tribbers.

[PeteWaldo]

 

I took in a kitty rescue today. The woman who brought the cat to me started talking about politics and said she thinks it's the end times with all that's happening now.

 

Could be the tribulation. One never knows. But the other day  I was listening to an old broadcast on Family Talk Sirius radio and a sermon by Dr. David Jeremiah. He said if we start seeing the antichrist acting out in politics or elsewhere in the world we should worry. Because per the scriptures the rapture has come and we've been left behind.   Wouldn't that be a blip?

 

This is the reason some of us post-tribs like to preach post-trib.  So that those pre-tribs can be encouraged when they find themselves in the very situation you are describing. 

 

I don't need to convince a pre-trib to change their doctrine, its pretty simple, if a pre-trib sees the antichrist coming to power and deceiving the whole world as described in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13, do not be discouraged!  You have not been left behind, Jesus is about to appear in a few years time to rescue you from the day of wrath and so we will be with the Lord forever!  Be encouraged you pre-tribbers.

 

So if millions of people disappeared leaving their clothes in a pile, and driverless cars crashed into trees perhaps even killing the unregenerate occupants, and pilotless planes fell from the sky, then the whole world would then know they would have exactly 7 years to repent! So much for not knowing the day.

 

But I don't think this is any laughing matter, because the pre-trib rapture offers the allure of judgment deferred, and the promise of a second bite at the apple. How many young people are thinking, "Well when mom and dad get raptured then I'll know, and will quit my cussing and surfing porn on the internet, and straighten up and fly right".

How many of those young people are killed ahead of their time suddenly, and by surprise, in car wrecks and such?

I was putting off repentance when I was in my 40s, because I thought I would be given another bite at the apple.

 

How many are in this forum saying in thread after thread, post after post, "well Jesus' must delay His Second Coming because this or that hasn't happened yet, or something else must happen beforehand"?

Edited November 3, 2014 by PeteWaldo

[other one]

 

So if millions of people disappeared leaving their clothes in a pile, and driverless cars crashed into trees perhaps even killing the unregenerate occupants, and pilotless planes fell from the sky, then the whole world would then know they would have exactly 7 years to repent! So much for not knowing the day.

 

Are you suggesting that we are headed to heaven naked???

[PeteWaldo]

 

 

So if millions of people disappeared leaving their clothes in a pile, and driverless cars crashed into trees perhaps even killing the unregenerate occupants, and pilotless planes fell from the sky, then the whole world would then know they would have exactly 7 years to repent! So much for not knowing the day.

 

Are you suggesting that we are headed to heaven naked???

 

[Enoch2021]

 

I took in a kitty rescue today. The woman who brought the cat to me started talking about politics and said she thinks it's the end times with all that's happening now.

 

Could be the tribulation. One never knows. But the other day  I was listening to an old broadcast on Family Talk Sirius radio and a sermon by Dr. David Jeremiah. He said if we start seeing the antichrist acting out in politics or elsewhere in the world we should worry. Because per the scriptures the rapture has come and we've been left behind.   Wouldn't that be a blip?

 

This is the reason some of us post-tribs like to preach post-trib.  So that those pre-tribs can be encouraged when they find themselves in the very situation you are describing. 

 

I don't need to convince a pre-trib to change their doctrine, its pretty simple, if a pre-trib sees the antichrist coming to power and deceiving the whole world as described in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13, do not be discouraged!  You have not been left behind, Jesus is about to appear in a few years time to rescue you from the day of wrath and so we will be with the Lord forever!  Be encouraged you pre-tribbers.

 

 

 

 

===========================================================================================================

 

 

if a pre-trib sees the antichrist coming to power and deceiving the whole world as described in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13, do not be discouraged!  You have not been left behind, Jesus is about to appear in a few years time to rescue you from the day of wrath and so we will be with the Lord forever!

 

 

Well if people do see the covenant "with the many"....then they can more or less Mark Their Calendars and Set their Watches for the Abomination of Desolation in 3.5 Years and Christ's Return in 7 Years.

 

Of course, that calls into question the Integrity of Scripture by Scuttling this Doctrine...

 

(Matthew 24:36) " But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

(Mark 13:32) " But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

(Luke 12:40) " Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

(2 Peter 3:10) "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

 

(And many Others)

 

 

"j" ....

 

Could be the tribulation. One never knows.

 

 

Factually Incorrect.

 

"tribulation" (little "t") does not = the "Great Tribulation".  In Fact, it's an Equivocation (Fallacy).

 

The "Great Tribulation" is clearly demarcated, here...

 

(Matthew 24:15-21) " When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)  {16}  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:  {17}  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:  {18}  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.  {19}  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!  {20}  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:  {21}  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

 

And points you to, here....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

And the Length of the "Great Tribulation" is here:

 

"Time and Times, and a Dividing of Time": Dan 7:25, Dan 12:7, Rev 12:14; "1260 Days": Rev 11:3, Rev 12:6 ; "42 Months": Rev 11:2, Rev 13:5.

[Marilyn C]

Hi PeteWaldo,

 

I think I need to clear up a few misconceptions here. Now you said regarding the pre-trib. rapture -

 

 

`So if millions of people disappeared leaving their clothes in a pile, and driverless cars crashed into trees perhaps even killing the unregenerate occupants, and pilotless planes fell from the sky, then the whole world would then know they would have exactly 7 years to repent! So much for not knowing the day.`

 

 

When the Body of Christ comes to maturity in Him then we will know by the Holy Spirit when the Lord, the Head of the Body is about to appear. Thus we will be gathering together, more & more, as we see the day approaching. We will not be driving cars, flying planes, etc. that is a nonsense from the `Left behind` sensational stories.

 

`But you brethren. are NOT in darkness that this day should over take you as a thief; for you are all sons of light...` (1 Thess. 5: 4 & 5)

 

`....encouraging one another; & all the more AS YOU SEE the day drawing near.` (Heb. 10: 25)

 

 

We need to read what the Holy Spirit says to the Body of Christ, who are `sons of light,` & NOT what was written to the people of Israel who were `blinded.`

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

 

 

[Enoch2021]

 

 

I took in a kitty rescue today. The woman who brought the cat to me started talking about politics and said she thinks it's the end times with all that's happening now.

 

Could be the tribulation. One never knows. But the other day  I was listening to an old broadcast on Family Talk Sirius radio and a sermon by Dr. David Jeremiah. He said if we start seeing the antichrist acting out in politics or elsewhere in the world we should worry. Because per the scriptures the rapture has come and we've been left behind.   Wouldn't that be a blip?

 

This is the reason some of us post-tribs like to preach post-trib.  So that those pre-tribs can be encouraged when they find themselves in the very situation you are describing. 

 

I don't need to convince a pre-trib to change their doctrine, its pretty simple, if a pre-trib sees the antichrist coming to power and deceiving the whole world as described in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13, do not be discouraged!  You have not been left behind, Jesus is about to appear in a few years time to rescue you from the day of wrath and so we will be with the Lord forever!  Be encouraged you pre-tribbers.

 

So if millions of people disappeared leaving their clothes in a pile, and driverless cars crashed into trees perhaps even killing the unregenerate occupants, and pilotless planes fell from the sky, then the whole world would then know they would have exactly 7 years to repent! So much for not knowing the day.

 

But I don't think this is any laughing matter, because the pre-trib rapture offers the allure of judgment deferred, and the promise of a second bite at the apple. How many young people are thinking, "Well when mom and dad get raptured then I'll know, and will quit my cussing and surfing porn on the internet, and straighten up and fly right".

How many of those young people are killed ahead of their time suddenly, and by surprise, in car wrecks and such?

I was putting off repentance when I was in my 40s, because I thought I would be given another bite at the apple.

 

How many are in this forum saying in thread after thread, post after post, "well Jesus' must delay His Second Coming because this or that hasn't happened yet, or something else must happen beforehand"?

 

 

 

=======================================================================================================

 

 

So if millions of people disappeared leaving their clothes in a pile, and driverless cars crashed into trees perhaps even killing the unregenerate occupants, and pilotless planes fell from the sky, then the whole world would then know they would have exactly 7 years to repent! So much for not knowing the day.

 

 

Ya think?  Walk up to an Atheist and ask them if they know Daniel 9:27.  This is Tantamount to asking a 5 year old the answer to a Tensor Calculus Equation.  Many "Christians" don't have a clue.

 

And most importantly, who said The Rapture "kicks-off" Daniel's 70th Week ??

 

 

But I don't think this is any laughing matter, because the pre-trib rapture offers the allure of judgment deferred,

 

 

For others?  They're fooling themselves (SEE: "and most importantly" above).  After The Rapture, Daniel's 70th Week could be:  1 second, 1 Month, 1 Year, 70 Years et al

 

Also, This has a sort of a Pascal's Wager Ring to it.  That's a DEAD bet.

 

 

How many are in this forum saying in thread after thread, post after post, "well Jesus' must delay His Second Coming because this or that hasn't happened yet, or something else must happen beforehand"? 

 

 

Bulls Eye!!  That's why you should live like HE can come in the next moment; it's called, The Doctrine of Imminence.  And that is exactly what Scripture Teaches.  And if that's your outlook....then what does (should) your conduct reflect by default.   

[ARGOSY]

 

 

This is the reason some of us post-tribs like to preach post-trib.  So that those pre-tribs can be encouraged when they find themselves in the very situation you are describing. 

 

I don't need to convince a pre-trib to change their doctrine, its pretty simple, if a pre-trib sees the antichrist coming to power and deceiving the whole world as described in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13, do not be discouraged!  You have not been left behind, Jesus is about to appear in a few years time to rescue you from the day of wrath and so we will be with the Lord forever!  Be encouraged you pre-tribbers.

 

 

if a pre-trib sees the antichrist coming to power and deceiving the whole world as described in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13, do not be discouraged!  You have not been left behind, Jesus is about to appear in a few years time to rescue you from the day of wrath and so we will be with the Lord forever!

 

 

Well if people do see the covenant "with the many"....then they can more or less Mark Their Calendars and Set their Watches for the Abomination of Desolation in 3.5 Years and Christ's Return in 7 Years.

 

Of course, that calls into question the Integrity of Scripture by Scuttling this Doctrine...

 

(Matthew 24:36) " But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

(Mark 13:32) " But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

(Luke 12:40) " Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

(2 Peter 3:10) "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

 

 

The bible is a symbolic book, so we can't always be literal, but I do generally prefer a literal interpretation, and prefer not to assume concepts when the bible is unclear. I note two things about the scripture you quoted: (Mark 13:32) " But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 

Firstly the verse specifically says the "day and the hour", not the "month and the year". With the various references to 1260 days, 1290 days and 1335 days its actually unclear on which day the Second Coming will occur. We know the approximate month, but the various 3.5 year periods are pointing to the period of persecution, or the period of the witnesses, or the end of the desolator, or the 42 months of rule of the beast. The actual day or hour of the second coming is not as clear.

Secondly the present tense is used.  In other words no one currently knows.  This is like saying no-one knows when the opening ceremony of the Olympic games in 2028  will be. Its true, no-one knows, only God knows that date.   But at this point it is not adviseable to assume we will never know, and can never know beforehand. When the Olympic games opening ceremony is announced, we will know the date. When the antichrist comes to power amidst deceiving signs and wonders, we will know its about 3.5 years left. Then we will know the approximate timeframes.

 

 

Now the irony of the verses that you quote, is that the thief in the night is a second coming context, a blatant day of destruction:

(2 Peter 3:10) "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

 

This thief in the night being a surprise to unbelievers at the second coming on a day of destruction is a common biblical theme:  1 Thess 4:17-5:4

 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.  Therefore encourage one another with these words.Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you  for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly,as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

 

2 Thess 1: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing firewith his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you

 

Its a common error of pre-tribbers to associate the thief in the night with an unpredictable rapture, the bible however associates it with the more predictable second coming. Its a thief for unbelievers but it is not a surprise for prepared believers who know the signs of the times.  The day we get our relief, is the day this destruction occurs. 

[ARGOSY]

 

 

I took in a kitty rescue today. The woman who brought the cat to me started talking about politics and said she thinks it's the end times with all that's happening now.

 

Could be the tribulation. One never knows. But the other day  I was listening to an old broadcast on Family Talk Sirius radio and a sermon by Dr. David Jeremiah. He said if we start seeing the antichrist acting out in politics or elsewhere in the world we should worry. Because per the scriptures the rapture has come and we've been left behind.   Wouldn't that be a blip?

 

This is the reason some of us post-tribs like to preach post-trib.  So that those pre-tribs can be encouraged when they find themselves in the very situation you are describing. 

 

I don't need to convince a pre-trib to change their doctrine, its pretty simple, if a pre-trib sees the antichrist coming to power and deceiving the whole world as described in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13, do not be discouraged!  You have not been left behind, Jesus is about to appear in a few years time to rescue you from the day of wrath and so we will be with the Lord forever!  Be encouraged you pre-tribbers.

 

So if millions of people disappeared leaving their clothes in a pile, and driverless cars crashed into trees perhaps even killing the unregenerate occupants, and pilotless planes fell from the sky, then the whole world would then know they would have exactly 7 years to repent! So much for not knowing the day.

 

But I don't think this is any laughing matter, because the pre-trib rapture offers the allure of judgment deferred, and the promise of a second bite at the apple. How many young people are thinking, "Well when mom and dad get raptured then I'll know, and will quit my cussing and surfing porn on the internet, and straighten up and fly right".

How many of those young people are killed ahead of their time suddenly, and by surprise, in car wrecks and such?

I was putting off repentance when I was in my 40s, because I thought I would be given another bite at the apple.

 

How many are in this forum saying in thread after thread, post after post, "well Jesus' must delay His Second Coming because this or that hasn't happened yet, or something else must happen beforehand"?

 

 

Well Jesus told us to watch for the signs. If our hearts are not prepared, then we will miss the signs and possibly believe the deception of the antichrist. It will be a pretty convincing display according to 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13.  So whether we are careful with our faith to avoid deception, or careful with our faith to await a so-called surprise rapture, in both cases we need to be careful with our faith. 

 

luke 21   “Be on your guard—see to it that your minds are never clouded by dissipation or drunkenness or the worries of this life, or else that day may catch you like the springing of a trap—for it will come upon every inhabitant of the whole earth. “You must be vigilant at all times, praying that you may be strong enough to come safely through all that is going to happen, and stand in the presence of the Son of Man.”(Phillips)

 

Vigilance and prayer  will get us through. Be on your guard.

[other one]

I don't understand how the question of this thread can go on for so long and not be reconciled.