Why I am a Post-Millennialist

[Limey_Bob]

15 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Any scholarship can clearly see that God has in different times dealt with people in different ways... and they termed this dispensations.

Classical Dispensationalism goes even further, Derby in his notes and C. I. Schofield in his reference Bible teach that people are saved in different ways in different dispensations. Do you affirm this yourself too? If you say no, and I hope that you do reject it, and instead you claim that people are always saved exactly the same way then you are either a progressive or (i.e. a more moderate modern) dispensationalist, or else a typical Armenian or lastly a Covenant Theologian (which is my position, as I would claim that people are always saved in EXACTLY the same way throughout the Bible). 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Limey_Bob

[enoob57]

16 minutes ago, Limey_Bob said:

Classical Dispensationalism goes even further, Derby and Schofield teach that people are saved in different ways in different dispensations. Do you affirm that? If you say no, people are always saved exactly the same way then you are a progressive or (more moderate) dispensationalist or Covenant Theologian. 

It is clear to me by Scripture there is distinctions to the salvation of peoples since the fall... markedly so in terms 'friends of the bridegroom'

John 3:29 (KJV)

[29] He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

[30] He must increase, but I must decrease.

[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

[32] And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

[33] He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

As one born in sin and soaked in it's kingdom now redeemed with God's Spirit within all things are certainly made new and I am under the command to renew my mind to the Scripture and the foundation thus born out of... I will say there is an apparent intimacy differential from saints OT law and saints NT new birth! But to evaluate in a value system of what this means is beyond my mental capacities as of yet... certainly when I see His face I shall know even as I am known.  Love, Steven

[Limey_Bob]

4 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

It is clear to me by Scripture there is distinctions to the salvation of peoples since the fall... markedly so in terms 'friends of the bridegroom'

John 3:29 (KJV)

[29] He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

[30] He must increase, but I must decrease.

[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

[32] And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

[33] He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

As one born in sin and soaked in it's kingdom now redeemed with God's Spirit within all things are certainly made new and I am under the command to renew my mind to the Scripture and the foundation thus born out of... I will say there is an apparent intimacy differential from saints OT law and saints NT new birth! But to evaluate in a value system of what this means is beyond my mental capacities as of yet... certainly when I see His face I shall know even as I am known.  Love, Steven

Answer the question, are people always saved in EXACTLY the same way (I affirm this), or is the way of salvation different in different dispensations?

[enoob57]

16 minutes ago, Limey_Bob said:

Answer the question, are people always saved in EXACTLY the same way (I affirm this), or is the way of salvation different in different dispensations?

It was answered maybe not your satisfaction... but it was to s/Spirit within me  

[Daniel 11:36]

Salvation is always the same way .... no difference [John 3:1-18] .... OT, NT

[OneLight]

2 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Thank you for this, you are of course absolutely right! About a quarter of Pentecostal churches world-wide are Oneness (apostolic), my first church was a Trinitarian Pentecostal Church 1985. I converted for just under a year to the Oneness in 1988-1989, when God delivered me from the heresy of this anti-Trinitarian belief, and gave me a passion for defending the truth of the Trinity.

I once belonged to the Assembly of God church for years and I can assure you that they are not oneness, which is why it was easy for me to pick up on this.  AOG is not a bad church to belong to, in general.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

2 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Answer the question, are people always saved in EXACTLY the same way (I affirm this), or is the way of salvation different in different dispensations?

What are the rules in this "different" dispensation?

If I could take to a city called: "The Lord is there" and show you the Messiah King who died for us as the Servant Messiah, and you could see Him - what need do you have for faith when Christ Jesus can be proved as a fact of life?

[Kindle]

7 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Define both a Pre-Millennialist as well as a . There are different types of both! C.H. Spurgeon for instance (a find man and a great preacher from the 19th century) was a pre-Millennialist, but he was a historic Pre-Millennialist who rejected the concept of a pre-trib rapture, so both Spurgeon and people in this forum are both Pre-Millennial, yet both differ widely in their Pre-Millennialism. Likewise there are two types of Post-Millennial belief, I explained this in my first post, spiritual Post-Millennial (often called A-Mill but some who hold this reject the term A-Mill) and a physical literal earthly based Post-Millennial belief where these people believe that the world will get Christianized and get better and better thus the church (not Christ) will institute a Millennium here on earth. I take the spiritual not literal Post-Millennial position. Sometimes in life you need to explain your position, rather than give simple yes no answers, as often people will misunderstand you if you just say yes or no. An example of this is in politics, a communist could ask: "do you support Donald Trump?" when the republican says yes, then then Communist replies: "of so you are a Nazi then!" Do you see how this works? The Communist using the tactic of cultural Marxism, simply labels all non-Marxists as Nazis, if somebody votes for Donald Trump, the obviously that does not make them a Nazi, but to people on the far left, their tactic is to smear all people outside of their group. Jehovah's Witnesses do the same, anyone who is religious but does not fellowship with them is of the devil (according to them)! Sadly the Christian Church is dying rapidly in Europe (where I live), it's literally collapsing in my city and Islam is taking over in leaps and bounds, there are many reasons for this, but one reason is that Christians can't even talk to non-believers or other-believers in my case, the ability to simply dialogue intelligently and drawing on relevant portions of the Bible is beyond most churched people whom I meet. If you can't dialogue, then you can't evangelize and neither can you defend your beliefs in discussion and debate, which is why most Atheists and Muslims make fools out of so many (I did not say all) Christians when they meet them, and the Christian is so completely ignorant of his or her own faith and the basics (Trinity, Christ's two natures, New Covenant etc) that they are in most cases (I did not say all) completely incapable of defending their faith or even of discussing it with a better educated and more knowledgeable Muslim or Atheist.

OK, I will ask again Are you a post-Millennialist or not?

[HAZARD]

8 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Christ's kingdom was set up at his ascension see Colossians 1:13: "For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves." The use of the word "kingdom" moderated by a verb in the present tense, proves that the Kingdom of God, over which Christ was ruling was already extant when Paul wrote this epistle. If Christ's Kingdom were some still future event, which had not then been set up, then Paul would have written Colossians 1:13 in the future tense: " .... and HE WILL Establish his kingdom of the Son he loves."   This kingdom is currently in heaven, where Christ (as King) is ruling over "souls" that is dis-incarnate spirits during the intermediate state between Christ's ascension and second coming (Revelation 20:4). Please I beg you, do not claim that Christ's Kingdom has not been set up and is some still future event. Christ rules now. Christ has ruled as King since his ascension.

There is a difference between the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God.

All who profess are in the Kingdom of Heaven in this age (Matt. 13).

The Kingdom of Heaven has the Messiah as its King. It is from Heaven, under heaven and upon Earth during the Millennium.
Then it becomes submerged into the Kingdom of God forever (John 18:28-37; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-20:10). It is limited in its scope (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev.5:10). It is political in its sphere (Isa.9:7; Dan. 7:13-14, 18). It is Jewish and exclusive in its character (Isa. 9:6-7; Luke 1:32-35; 2 Sam. 7:1-29; Ezek. 43:7). The kingdom of Heaven is national in its aspect (Isa. 9:6-7; Luke 1:32-35). It is dispensational in duration (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Isa. 9:6-7). It includes only a portion of time and eternity (Matt. 3:2). It has a beginning (Luke 1:32-35). All who profess are in the Kingdom of Heaven in this age (Matt. 13). The Kingdom of Heaven comes with outward show (Matt. 24:29-31; 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Jude 14; Dan. 7:13). "Flesh and blood" does inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, for it is for earthly, natural people (Ps.37:11; Matt. 5:5; Ps.138:4; Isa. 60:3, 10-11; 62:2; Ezek. 43:7; Dan. 7:18, 27; Luke 1:32-35; Rev. 21:23-26). Men are never told to seek the Kingdom of heaven for the kingdom of heaven is future (Dan. 2:44-45; 7:13-14, 18, 27).

In contrast The Kingdom of God has God as King. It is in Heaven and over the Earth during the Millennium.
Then it comes down to Earth to engulf the Kingdom of Heaven forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 21:3; 22:5; Dan. 2:44-45; 7:13-14, 18). It is unlimited in its scope (Ps. 103:19; Col. 1:16; Rev. 4:11; 5:11). It is moral and spiritual in its sphere (Rom. 14:17; John 3:5; 1 Cor. 4:20). It is universal and inclusive in its character (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Ps. 103:19; Col. 1:10-18; Rev. 4:11). It is universal in its aspect (Ps. 109:19; 1 Cor. 15:24-28). It is eternal (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Ps. 90; John 1:1-3). The Kingdom of God includes all time and eternity Ps. 90:2; Pr. 8:22-29; Rev. 11;15). It has no beginning and no end, and one must be born again to be in the Kingdom of God (John 3:5). The Kingdom of God does not come with outward show, for it is mainly spiritual (Luke 17:20-21; Matt. 6:33; Rom. 14:17; 1 Cor. 4:20). The Kingdom of God is not inherited by "flesh and blood," but by glorofoed saints who become heirs of all things (Rom. 8:14-17; 1 Cor. 4:20; 6:9-10; Gal. 5:21; Eph. 5:5; Col. 1:13; 1 Thess. 2:12; 2 Thess. 1:5; Heb. 1:1-2; 12:28; 2 Peter 1:11). Men are told to seek the kingdom of God (Matt. 6:33; Luke 12:31), and the Kingdom of God is now (Matt. 6:33; Jn. 3:1-5; Rom. 14:17).

The Kingdom of God on Earth now is mainly spiritual and in a sense includes only those who are willingly subject to the will of God. It takes in those who are not willingly subject to God in the same sense that any kingdom includes rebels. God's purpose in establishing the Kingdom of Heaven and sending His Son with an expeditionary force from Heaven is to put down rebellion in this earthly part of the universal Kingdom of God. After this is done the Kingdom of heaven is submerged into the Kingdom of God, and God becomes supreme over all as before rebellion started in the universe. As in any kingdom, during the rebellion rebels could not be considered a part of the kingdom or subjects of the king they are rebelling against, until they become reconciled or submissive again. When the Messiah puts down all rebellion and every enemy is destroyed, then everyone in the universe, except the rebels who are confined to EXTERNAL Hell, will be willing subjects of God. God becomes all in all as before rebellion. The Son becomes subject to the Father, but continues to reign with the Father forever and ever (Isa. 9:6, 7: Dan. 7:13, 14; Luke 1:32-35; Rev. 11:15; 1 Cor. 15:24-28).

Both the professed sons and the true sons of God are in the Kingdom of Heaven in this age, and these with the rest of the universe are in the universal Kingdom of God, but God recognizes the true sons of God as being in the Kingdom of God. This is why we must be born again in order to become a willing subject of God and a part of His Kingdom (John 3:1-8; Rom. 8:1-13). One does not have to be born again to be recognized as a part of the Kingdom of Heaven in this age, for it is the sphere of profession (Matt. 13), but one must be born again in order to be a true subject of God and have a part in the Kingdom of Heaven in the next age (Matt. 5:3, 5, 10; 18:3).

The Kingdom of Heaven is the Kingdom that God gives to His Son and the glorified saints. It is the one promised to David which will become universal over all other kingdoms in the Earth. It is called "my kingdom" (Luke 22:30; John 18:36). It was so recognised by the diciples (Matt. 20:21; Luke 23:42). It is the kingdom God has prepared for the righteous since the foundation of the world (Matt. 25:34). It is the one first announced by John the Baptist (Matt. 3:2-3) and by Jesus and the apostles (Matt. 4:17; 10:7) as being "at hand," but it was rejected and is now in abeyance until the return of the King. Then it will be established as a separate kingdom from Heaven for the purpose of re-establishing the Kingdom of God on Earth forever.

[simplejeff]

https://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-heaven-God.html

"Question: "What is the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven?"

Answer: While some believe that the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are referring to different things, it is clear that both phrases are referring to the same thing. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs 68 times in 10 different New Testament books, while “kingdom of heaven” occurs only 32 times, and only in the Gospel of Matthew. Based on Matthew’s exclusive use of the phrase and the Jewish nature of his Gospel, some interpreters have concluded that Matthew was writing concerning the millennial kingdom while the other New Testament authors were referring to the universal kingdom. However, a closer study of the use of the phrase reveals that this interpretation is in error.

... ... ... "