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Though I personally disagree with various schools of thought in Catholicism, and this is the strongest, we have to remember that they are people, too. Some Catholics aren't saved, certainly, but there are Christians who are not saved - Jesus Himself even said that many would come before Him and be rejected even though they did a lot in His Name (Matthew 7:21-23). It's a scary thought, but we have to remember only God can change hearts, but we can plant seeds and still be strong examples and show love. Not that it's going to be easy all the time. 

 

But yes, Christ is the only authority, I can agree with that: 

Was a video here from youtube under the title of "Authority of Jesus Christ", channel was called FindingFaith. I removed the video, because videos are only allowed in the video section of the forum. - Omegaman 3.0

 

Edited by Omegaman 3.0
videos not allowed in this forum
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14 hours ago, Yowm said:

Wow, all without Scriptural reference or backing, I'm impressed. (not)

Regards my Code of Canon Law  POST:

My friend in Christ,

The Bible is only as "good" as the person reading it {Hence the thousands of differing Protestant churches; each identified by its OWN self- interpretation of the same Bible.

For example you do not rightly grasp:

Mt 10: 1-8 {God shares HIS Powers with His Catholic Apostles}

Mt 16: 15-19 {and the unlimited POWERS & Authority of the Key's to Heavens Gate}

John 17:17-20 { Where Jesus Gives HIMSELF as the Personal warranty of Catholic Church {HIS CHURCH] on ALL matters of Faith and Morals {RE: The Code of Canon Law}.... NO other Church can make and evidence THIS claim.

Eph. 2: 20-22 {Where we are TAUGHT that Christ Church is "BUILT UPON THE CATHOLIC APOSTLES; JESUS HIMSELF BEING THE CORNERSTONE"}

Eph. 4:1-6 {Where Christ specifies that He DESIRES just One True Church and Faith {and no my friend; this cannot mean all faiths are equal. Even GOD can have only one True set of Faith beliefs.}

Mt. 28: 19-20 {Where Jesus directly and exclusively COMMANDS His Catholic Apostles to teach ALL that He has taught THEM to the entire World}

2 Peter 1: [16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [17] For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," [18] we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. [19] And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. [20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, [21] because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

Douay Bible explanation 20 "No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation"... This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise.

21 For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost. End Quotes

Yes my friend, Catholics can quote the bible too; after all the Bible is a Catholic Birthed Book.

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Yowm said:

That my friend is most likely one of its roots of a long history of antisemitism and supersessionism.

It is not a Catholic birthed Book. Give credit to where credit was due...

Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. (Rom 3:1-2)

They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. (Rom 9:4-5)

You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
(Joh 4:22)

So please, while I pity you,  I despise the deceptions and deviousness of Catholicism and there are way too many to mention (this was just one example). Next, they will be telling us that Abraham, Moses, Elijah and Jesus were Roman Catholics just as Islam tries to tells us they were Muslim.
 

My dear friend in Christ,

On point #1 I was speaking directly to the POSTER; NOT the world in general.  Your absolutely correct that the Bible has two distinct parts:  The Old Testament which is a summary of the Jewish peoples struggles to FIND and believe in just One True God {Triune}…. It was authored by Jews to whom we owe a GREAT debt.

The second part of the Bible; the so called “New Testament” was fully authored by Men known today to be Catholics. THAT FACT, and the fact that it was Catholic men who guided by the Holy Spirit; selected the 46 OT books to use; gives credence to the bible being a “Catholic Birthed Book,”

Thank you for the quote. I AM well aware of it.

CATHOLIC COMMENTARY:

Ver. 22.—Ye worship what (Arabic, whom) ye know not, &c. Here Christ gives a direct answer to the woman, and decides the Jews to be in the right in the controversy concerning the worship of God, condemning the Samaritans as schismatics. He says, You, 0 ye Samaritans, worship ye know not what, because ye worship God together with your Assyrian idols; and associating God as it were with idols, ye worship a false or fictitious God. Again the Samaritans had their own heresies and errors, which S. Epiphanius recapitulates. In the same manner the Turks and Jews worship a God whom they know not, because they deny Him to be in a Trinity of Persons. So also Calvin with his followers, in denying the omnipotence of God, and making Him cruel in condemning some men to hell without any demerit on their part, worship not a true, but a false God. For the true God is Almighty, and most kind.

2. and better. Ye worship, i.e. ye have a method of worship and sacrifice which ye do not know to have proceeded from God. For ye have framed it out of your own imagination, contrary to the will and law of God. But we Jews know what we worship, because we follow the way of worshipping God which was prescribed by Moses.

For salvation, &c. Both because I, Christ, who am the Author of salvation, am not born of the Samaritans, but of the Jews, as well as because the true knowledge and worship of God, which leads men to salvation, formerly emanated from the Jews to the Gentiles, and now in the New Law will emanate from Me, a Jew, to all nations. END QUOTES

Ahhhhh, JESUS was the First “Roman Catholic”….. HE it was who founded the RCC Church and Faith.

Eph. 2: [19] Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners; but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and the domestics of God, [20] Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone: [21] In whom all the building, being framed together, groweth up into an holy temple in the Lord. [22] In whom you also are built together into an habitation of God in the Spirit.”

Shalom; truly sorry for the omission. Your point is well taken.

Patrick

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4 hours ago, Yowm said:

Another unfortunate twist. The OT was basically about God revealing Himself to Abraham and continuing that revelation of Himself to succeeding generations of Jews culminating in the greatest revelation of Himself in Jesus Christ, to the Jew first and to then to the Gentiles fulfilling the promises to the Jews of His first coming. There are still many prophecies from the OT concerning His Second Coming and His dealings with Abraham's descendants. You cannot split up the bible into two partitions, into Jewish 

 

and Catholic. It's one unified story.

Even the writers of the NT were Jewish not Catholic. 

OK my friend, I can see that is YOU'RE Story and your going to stick with it.

Good luck with that.

 

BTW; I thought they were Jewish-Catholics:rolleyes:

May GOD guide our paths,

Patrick

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On 4/9/2018 at 8:55 PM, KiwiChristian said:

PAPAL INFALLIBILITY (declared in 1870 AD).

Definition: When a pope is speaking in his official position on any issue of faith or morals, he is speaking infallibly, meaning without error.

Answer: The apostles never regarded any man to be infallible. Only the Word of God is regarded as without error.

If Peter was pope, which the Bible says he was not, then he made mistakes as in Galatians 2:11-14 when he was deceived by Judaizers. "But when Peter came to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed."

The following events from history show the error of papal infallibility.

1. Pope John XII, in the "Liber Pontificalis," the Catholic publication discussing the lives of the popes, states that "He spent his entire life in adultery."

2. Popes Innocent III, Gregory XI, Clement IV, Hadrian VI, and Paul IV all disagreed with papal infallibility.

3. Pope Stephen VI (896) had the dead pope Formosus (891-6) tried, questioned, fingers hacked off, dragged through Rome and thrown into the Tiber river.

4. Pope Hadrian II (867) declared civil marriage to be valid, but Pope Pius VII (1800-23) declared it to be invalid.

5. Pope Eugene IV (1431) had Joan of Arc burned alive as a witch, but later Pope Benedict IV in 1919 declared her to be a saint.

6. Pope Pius XI in 1929 endorsed Fascism and called Mussolini "a man sent by God." However, before World War II, he warned people against Mussolini.

7. The Vatican advised the German Catholic Party to vote for Nazi candidates. In 1933, the Vatican and Hitler signed a concordat, where the Catholic church swore allegiance to the Nazi government. Later on Pope Pius XI condemned Hitler.


How can a supposedly infallible man make so many errors of judgment, and even contradict other so-called infallible popes? 

Surely this disproves papal infallibility to any honest, open minded
person.

:emot-heartbeat:

Beloved, IMO The Proof Of The Pudding
Is Found In The Tasting
Of The Bible

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. Matthew 23:8-10

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

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The Seventh Day Adventist church has been vilified for its interpretation of scripture regarding prophecy, in particular the day/year principle where for every prophetic day, one year is meant. This principle is found to be most accurate in several places, the most profound as you would be aware being Daniel 9:24 which speaks of the 70 'weeks', which is meant as 490 years. But another equally accurate number is found also in Daniel, as well as Revelation. The 1260 days...42 months...times, time, and half a time. 

This has two distinct applications, being the same time period, for two separate peoples. The oppressor, (Daniel 7:25; Revel.13:5; ) and the oppressed. (Revel. 11:3; 12:6,14). So what has this to do with the topic currently under discussion?

Papal Primacy
What is the real issue involved with the prophetic 1260 years and the topic under present discussion? The real issue is papal primacy.

Papal Primacy is what the Papacy wants. She wants back what she had during those 1260 years.

What is Papal Primacy?
First Papal Primacy is not:
Popularity
It is not being the top civil or political leader in a country.
It is not even whether everyone always accepts that primacy or not

Papal Primacy during the 1260 years was being recognized BY LAW, to be the supreme teaching authority. It was recognizing that the papacy had the legal right to persecute and eradicate all whom she defined as heritics. Papal power resided in her stance of having the very keys over who would enjoy eternal life, or suffer the wrath of God. A faulty application of Matt. 16:19's "bind and loose" was used to give the papacy power to intimidate even powerful kings into obedience in executing their agendas.

The issue isn't whether people liked it or not-- many didn't. The issue isn't whether the papacy suffered weak points during those years. We know there were even times when there were several "popes" fighting for the position. The issue is an entire era, covering 1260 years when papal primacy was established by law.  This is highly significant when considering Revelation 13 and a future ecumenical global religion enforcing, by law, her dogmas and doctrines, even under pain of death. The 1260 years past, beginning with Justinian's code of law, and ending with Napoleon's code of law. 538AD to 1798AD. 1260 years.

The issue is papal primacy and the authority to enforce that primacy by civil law and with the use of civil power. The papacy is not satisfied to be "one of the body" of Christian churches. NO, NO, NEVER!

She must be the leader, and controller---
THROUGH LEGISLATION 
AND SHE HAS MADE THIS VERY PLAIN

In an official four page "note" after the release of the Vatican Declaration Dominus Deus which reaffirmed the Papal position of Primacy by Pope John Paul II, the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, (later Pope Benedict 16th) who was the "Prefect" of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith (Note: that means he was head of the re-established and renamed Office of the Inquisition) stated:

"when the expression 'sister churches' is used in the proper sense, the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Universal Church is not (meant to be) sister but MOTHER of all particular churches. This is not merely a question of terminology, but above all of respecting a basic truth of the Catholic faith: that of the unicity of the Church of Jesus Christ."


Rev. 17 jumps to mind--
Mystery Babylon, the mother.....
This is the primacy that lead to the 1260 years of papal persecution, when that primacy using the power of the state (the kings) to force people into compliance.

Otto Gierke, speaking of Pope Gregory VII (Pope from 1073-1085) 
writes in "Political Theories of the Middle Ages", p.11-12


"If mankind be only one, and if there can be but one State that comprises all mankind, that State can be no other than the Church that God Himself has founded, and all temporal lordship can be valid only in so far as it is part and parcel of the Church. Therefore the Church, being the one true State, has received by a mandate from God the plenitude of all spiritual and temporal powers, they being integral parts of One Might. The Head of this all embracing State is Christ. BUT, as the Unity of Mankind is to be realized already in this world, His celestial kingship must have a terrestrial presentment. As Christ's Vice-Regent, the earthly Head of the Church is the one and only Head of all Mankind. The Pope is the wielder of what is in principle an Empire (principatus) over the Community of Mortals. He is their Priest and their King; their spiritual and temporal Monarch; their Lawgiver and judge in all causes supreme.

Gregory VII (Pope from 1073-1085) was probably the first pope to claim UNIVERSAL jurisdiction, he issued his Dictatus Papae, containing twenty-seven propositions about the powers of the pope, which declared he was over kings and emperors. ( See "Lives of the Popes, by Richard McBrien, page 186 ) But we see popes crowning and anointing kings and emperors well before that time. Stephen IV anointed and crowned Louis as successor to Charlemagne in 816. Leo III was the pope who crowned Charlemagne.
As early as 492 Pope Gelasius claimed the title "Vicar of Christ". 
According to Richard McBrien in "Lives of the Popes" p. 80-81 Gelasius I, (pope from 492-496) Wrote a series of letters which read more like legal briefs in defence of papal primacy by appealing to the theory of "two powers" or "two swords" (the spiritual and the temporal) each power has its own sphere BUT the spiritual power is superior to the temporal.

Even earlier, Pope Leo the Great (r. 440-461) was promoting the right to primacy and asserting that Peter, above all the disciples was given this right.

In a letter to the Bishop of Vienna (according "The Faith of the Early Fathers" (FEF), 3 volumes, Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press, 1970, vol. 3, p. 269;) Pope Leo wrote:


"Although bishops have a common dignity, they are not all of the same rank. Even among the most blessed Apostles, though they were alike in honor, there was a certain distinction of power. All were equal in being chosen, but it was given to one to be pre-eminent over the others . . . the care of the universal Church would converge in the one See of Peter, and nothing should ever be at odds with this head." (Quote also found in Tract: The Authority of the Pope: Part II, Catholic Answers)
So early on we see the papal authority asserting it's sovereignty over spiritual power, of which it claimed to be the head. The civil leaders were merely the police department of the Church to be used to further it's aims. With the fall of the western Roman Empire, the church took over the vacated prerogatives of that position. The introduction into law Justinian's code in 533AD and its establishment of Justinian's law in Rome in 538 legally declared the Pope as the "head of all churches". Napoleon's law written in 1793 and enacted in Rome 1798, reversed this. 

However, the Lateran Treaty in 1929 saw the Pope reinstated as a civil ruler. The wound was healed. Revelation reveals the beast will be granted, for a short time, global dominion, which will afford him the opportunity to legislate and enforce one particular doctrine he favours above all others. Sunday sacredness. 

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