2300 days

[TrevorL]

Greetings Charlie744,

On 2/9/2020 at 7:22 AM, Charlie744 said:

I am sure this particular topic has been discussed in the past, but because I am a newbie I would kindly ask if I could get your current thoughts.... I am currently working on chapter 11 so I have run through the first 10.... 

Would you please comment on the following:

1) Would you please tell me what the 2300 mornings and evenings directly refers or relates to? What will be completed or accomplished at the end of this time period?

2) This may be addressed in your response to #1 above, but if not, what is the basis for your time period - days, years, 1/2 days, etc.?

Please try and keep this as short as possible (dumb it down for me as I am not as "equipped" as those folks that have been responding to my Daniel 11 posts).

If not, no problem and thank all of you in advance, Charlie 

I will be brief mainly because others including yourself have expressed a different perspective. I believe that the 2300 evening/mornings represent 2300 years. The treading down commenced when the Goat slew the Ram, that is Alexander the Great overthrew the Persians in BC334-333. As a result the Holy Land came under subjection to an antagonistic power, the Greeks, while the Persians had been supportive of the return of the Jews from Babylon and the reestablishment of their worship in Jerusalem, hence the term "trodden under foot". The 2300 years terminated when the Jews recaptured Jerusalem in AD 1967. After the Greeks, the Romans also trod down the people and the land and the little horn of Daniel 8:9 is specifically the pagan Roman power who withstood Jesus and overthrew the Temple in AD 70.

 

Some of the language of Daniel 8:13-14 is alluded to by Jesus in his Mount Olivet prophecy, refer some underlining. I will simply quote this and allow you to respond and discuss this further if you are interested.

Daniel 8:9–14 (KJV): 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Matthew 24:15–19 (KJV): 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give milk in those days!

Luke 21:20–24 (KJV): 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give milk, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

I have not checked your posts on Daniel 11, but I would be interested in how you understand Daniel 11:40. I believe that Russia will be the new King of the North and will invade Turkey, and the current events may lead to this occurring soon.

Kind regards Trevor

[Charlie744]

On 2/12/2020 at 1:58 PM, WilliamL said:

Excerpt from my blog posts on Daniel 8-9. See especially the last two paragraphs:

 

Daniel 8:17 …כִּי/because לְעֶת־/for a time of קֵץ/ an end [is] הֶחָזֹֽון/the vision/revelation.

“…because the vision is for a time of an end.”

– not “the time of the end,” as this is generally mistranslated. (There is no ה/“the” before קץ.) That interpretation has imposed within it the presumption that there is only one time when there will be an end. But other prophetic, already-fulfilled times, ends, and time-of-end passages can be seen in Ezekiel 7:2-12 and 21:25, 29 (the latter verses generally mistranslated).

Daniel 8:19 …אֲשֶׁר־/what יִהְיֶה/shall happen בְּאַחֲרִית/in the latter (part/time) of הַזָּעַם/the fury/rage, כִּי/because [it is] לְמֹועֵד/for an appointed time קֵֽץ/of an end.

“…what shall happen in the latter part of the fury, because it is for an appointed time of an end.”

Again, the Hebrew does not say, as this is generally mistranslated, “at the appointed time (shall be) the end.” Like with verse 17, nothing of this event relates to our day either. To give a similar example, Daniel 11:29 prophesies “at the appointed time he [Antiochus] shall return and go toward the south,” but that “appointed time” prophecy was fulfilled in 168 B.C.

Daniel 8:23 וּֽבְאַחֲרִית/And in the latter (part/time) מַלְכוּתָם/of malkutham/their kingdom, כְּהָתֵם/while bringing to fullness [Hiphil Infin. with prefixכ: “while, when”] הַפֹּשְׁעִים/the transgressing/rebelling ones [Qal Active Participle, plural], מֶלֶךְ/a king יַעֲמֹד/shall arise…

“And in the latter part of their kingdom, while the rebelling ones/transgressors are bringing to fullness their apostasy, a king shall arise…”

These three verses, 8:17, 19, 23, are where translators and commentators often go astray, imposing words and understanding not expressed in the Hebrew. In these and similar Hebrew prophetic texts, a common default presumption of translators has been that every “time of an end,” “Day of the LORD,” and “latter day/time” must refer to the end of OUR age. This is not true at all: there have been many “ends” of kingdoms and eras prophesied that have already come to pass. For example:

Jeremiah 46:2 Against Egypt. Concerning the army of Pharaoh Necho, King of Egypt, which was by the River Euphrates in Carchemish, which Nebuchadrezzar King of Babylon smote in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah. … 10 For this is the Day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance…

This historically-famous “Day of the LORD” battle took place in 610 B.C. Other fulfilled Day of the LORD prophecies include Joel 1:15 (but not Joel 2-3), and Ezekiel 7:19 and 13:5. The final “end”/Day of the LORD/last of the last days does not come until the end of the 7th Millennium, “when He [Christ] delivers the kingdom to God the Father…[having] put an end to all rule and all authority and power.” 1 Cor. 15:24

Daniel 8:23 defines the very era of the 2300-day abasement of Jerusalemʼs Temple: “in the latter part/time of their [the Greek] kingdom.” By 168 B.C., only the significantly-diminished Seleucid and Ptolemaic kingdoms remained out of Alexanderʼs once vast empire. Therefore, the “fierce king” and ha-poshim/“the rebelling ones” of verse 23 can only be Antiochus Epiphanes and the Jewish apostates, respectively. All of the verses from 8:23-28 prophesy about the qualities and acts of Antiochus: they do not prophesy about OUR times.

Was Antiochus Epiphanes a type and foreshadower of the coming King of the North of the yet-unfulfilled prophecy of Daniel 11:40-45? Yes. (See Antiochus Epiphanes and the End Times, Part 3.) Can the attributes and acts of Antiochus described in Daniel 8, and/or the period of 2300 days, be expected to apply to the coming King of the North? No. Beware of any such presumptions. Daniel 11:29 specifically prophesies that one “appointed time” fulfilled by Antiochus “shall not be like the latter” event fulfilled by Daniel 11:40ʼs King of the North. Certainly there will be other significant differences between the attributes and acts of these two rulers.

 

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1576-part-2-conclusion/

 

 

William, I do not know if you had read my earlier response to RevelationMan, but I cut / pasted it here regarding the 2300 days prophecy:  Thank you very much for your comments and consideration, Charlie

 

I had previously mentioned to you folks in this forum that I began my Daniel study back in July, 2019.  It has been quite a struggle, however, every time I needed help, and this was just about after each verse, the Holy Spirit was willing...... There can be NO other reason for me having any reasonable understanding of any of the chapters in Daniel. I also mentioned that I am currently having an extremely difficult time with chapter 11 and I have not been able to get any traction on the verses so far.... I find myself continually requesting the help of the Holy Spirit.  I know He will since He has been there for the first 10 chapters and has revealed so many things (those 9 controversial issues) - I don't believe He would stop now.

Anyway, I would like to tell you what He has revealed to me regarding the 2300 days (and please believe me, this was not a calculation of my doing):

Here are the two verses in chapter 8:

Verse 13: Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Verse 14: And he said unto me, unto two thousand and three hundred days (evenings and mornings); then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

Who is the only one that can cleanse the sanctuary?  The High Priest.

Who is the only one that will take away ALL sins?    The Passover Lamb of God.

 

The Messiah will come and serve both as our High Priest and the Passover Lamb of God. ALL of His prophecies shown here in chapter 8 and those recorded in chapter 9:24, 27, etc., will / must be fulfilled before the end of the 70 week prophecy. The Messiah will fulfill all of these during the last wek of Daniel's 70th week.

On the first day of His ministry, Jesus was baptized by John in the Jordan River. The total period of the last 7 years is 2520 days (360 X 7). This will include 7 Passover Feasts. Because of His perfect timing, Jesus would attend the first 4 Passover's during His 3.5 year ministry (also symbolically representing the first four feasts of the 7 Jewish Feasts - last 3 will occur at His second coming). Jesus was to serve as our High Priest for all of the 7 Passover Feasts during the final week, unfortunately, 9:27 shows us He will be "cut off" in the midst of the final week. The total period from His baptism in the Jordan to the final Passover Feast is 2340 days (or 6.5 years X 360 days). 

As you are well aware, according to the laws of Leviticus, the High Priest MUST not enter the Holy of Holies unless he is ritually and spiritually cleansed -  otherwise, he will be immediately be killed. Consequently, the Messiah had to also follow the laws of Leviticus and be cleansed before He could serve as our High Priest. The very first thing Jesus did after His baptism was to go directly into the wilderness for 40 days. There, He would be tempted by the devil himself, and as we know, He would refute his temptations and respond with the Words of God (Deuteronomy).

Consequently, Jesus would be cleansed as our High Priest and since He was sinless, He would also be our Passover Lamb.  The total period from His baptism to the 7th Passover is 2340 days less the 40 days of cleansing in the wilderness of 40 days gives us the 2300 days (EXACTLY).

NOW, YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP?  PLEASE ACCEPT THIS COULD NOT POSSIBLY COME FROM ME.... I INDEED STRUGGLED WITH THIS CALCULATION FOR DAYS WITH ABSOLUTELY NO RESULTS. HE REVEALED IT TO ME IN ONE SECOND (WHEN HE DEEMED SO).

THE MESSIAH WOULD HAVE CLEANSED THE SANCTUARY AND REMOVED ALL SINS HAD WE NOT CRUCIFIED HIM ON THE 4TH PASSOVER. BUT IF YOU REMEMBER WHAT HE SAID ON THE CROSS:

"FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE", AND, "IT IS FINISHED".

 

Even though we did not allow Him to complete His mission (which would have be completed at the 7th Passover), He still was willing and able to

forgive all our sins, AND, declare that He had finished His mission.

 

This is what I meant in my previous responses when I mentioned we need to look for the Messiah in these prophecies and not some insignificant individuals like an Antiochus or his battles, wars or treatments of the Jews between the 3rd and 4th kingdoms. From mid chapter 8 onward, they point and speak about the Messiah.  The other 8 controversial issues previously mentioned also identify with Him..... without exception!

Fortunately, they are now behind me and I am facing the most difficult chapter in Daniel - now I know they speak about the actors and events that attempt to destroy / corrupt His Word but I am so lost.... If anyone is moved by this 2300 revelation and would kindly try and help me with chapter 11, I am sure we can solve this... and I guarantee you it would be more than enjoyable and rewarding.... Please consider. Thank you, Charlie

 

[Charlie744]

11 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings Charlie744,

I will be brief mainly because others including yourself have expressed a different perspective. I believe that the 2300 evening/mornings represent 2300 years. The treading down commenced when the Goat slew the Ram, that is Alexander the Great overthrew the Persians in BC334-333. As a result the Holy Land came under subjection to an antagonistic power, the Greeks, while the Persians had been supportive of the return of the Jews from Babylon and the reestablishment of their worship in Jerusalem, hence the term "trodden under foot". The 2300 years terminated when the Jews recaptured Jerusalem in AD 1967. After the Greeks, the Romans also trod down the people and the land and the little horn of Daniel 8:9 is specifically the pagan Roman power who withstood Jesus and overthrew the Temple in AD 70.

 

 

 

Some of the language of Daniel 8:13-14 is alluded to by Jesus in his Mount Olivet prophecy, refer some underlining. I will simply quote this and allow you to respond and discuss this further if you are interested.

 

Daniel 8:9–14 (KJV): 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

Matthew 24:15–19 (KJV): 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give milk in those days!

 

Luke 21:20–24 (KJV): 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give milk, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

I have not checked your posts on Daniel 11, but I would be interested in how you understand Daniel 11:40. I believe that Russia will be the new King of the North and will invade Turkey, and the current events may lead to this occurring soon.

 

Kind regards Trevor

 

 

Trevor, very  kind of you to send / respond to this discussion and I do not know if you have seen my response to RevelationMan last week regarding the 2300 days but here it is:

 

I had previously mentioned to you folks in this forum that I began my Daniel study back in July, 2019.  It has been quite a struggle, however, every time I needed help, and this was just about after each verse, the Holy Spirit was willing...... There can be NO other reason for me having any reasonable understanding of any of the chapters in Daniel. I also mentioned that I am currently having an extremely difficult time with chapter 11 and I have not been able to get any traction on the verses so far.... I find myself continually requesting the help of the Holy Spirit.  I know He will since He has been there for the first 10 chapters and has revealed so many things (those 9 controversial issues) - I don't believe He would stop now.

Anyway, I would like to tell you what He has revealed to me regarding the 2300 days (and please believe me, this was not a calculation of my doing):

Here are the two verses in chapter 8:

Verse 13: Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Verse 14: And he said unto me, unto two thousand and three hundred days (evenings and mornings); then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

Who is the only one that can cleanse the sanctuary?  The High Priest.

Who is the only one that will take away ALL sins?    The Passover Lamb of God.

 

The Messiah will come and serve both as our High Priest and the Passover Lamb of God. ALL of His prophecies shown here in chapter 8 and those recorded in chapter 9:24, 27, etc., will / must be fulfilled before the end of the 70 week prophecy. The Messiah will fulfill all of these during the last wek of Daniel's 70th week.

On the first day of His ministry, Jesus was baptized by John in the Jordan River. The total period of the last 7 years is 2520 days (360 X 7). This will include 7 Passover Feasts. Because of His perfect timing, Jesus would attend the first 4 Passover's during His 3.5 year ministry (also symbolically representing the first four feasts of the 7 Jewish Feasts - last 3 will occur at His second coming). Jesus was to serve as our High Priest for all of the 7 Passover Feasts during the final week, unfortunately, 9:27 shows us He will be "cut off" in the midst of the final week. The total period from His baptism in the Jordan to the final Passover Feast is 2340 days (or 6.5 years X 360 days). 

As you are well aware, according to the laws of Leviticus, the High Priest MUST not enter the Holy of Holies unless he is ritually and spiritually cleansed -  otherwise, he will be immediately be killed. Consequently, the Messiah had to also follow the laws of Leviticus and be cleansed before He could serve as our High Priest. The very first thing Jesus did after His baptism was to go directly into the wilderness for 40 days. There, He would be tempted by the devil himself, and as we know, He would refute his temptations and respond with the Words of God (Deuteronomy).

Consequently, Jesus would be cleansed as our High Priest and since He was sinless, He would also be our Passover Lamb.  The total period from His baptism to the 7th Passover is 2340 days less the 40 days of cleansing in the wilderness of 40 days gives us the 2300 days (EXACTLY).

NOW, YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP?  PLEASE ACCEPT THIS COULD NOT POSSIBLY COME FROM ME.... I INDEED STRUGGLED WITH THIS CALCULATION FOR DAYS WITH ABSOLUTELY NO RESULTS. HE REVEALED IT TO ME IN ONE SECOND (WHEN HE DEEMED SO).

THE MESSIAH WOULD HAVE CLEANSED THE SANCTUARY AND REMOVED ALL SINS HAD WE NOT CRUCIFIED HIM ON THE 4TH PASSOVER. BUT IF YOU REMEMBER WHAT HE SAID ON THE CROSS:

"FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE", AND, "IT IS FINISHED".

 

Even though we did not allow Him to complete His mission (which would have be completed at the 7th Passover), He still was willing and able to

forgive all our sins, AND, declare that He had finished His mission.

 

This is what I meant in my previous responses when I mentioned we need to look for the Messiah in these prophecies and not some insignificant individuals like an Antiochus or his battles, wars or treatments of the Jews between the 3rd and 4th kingdoms. From mid chapter 8 onward, they point and speak about the Messiah.  The other 8 controversial issues previously mentioned also identify with Him..... without exception!

Fortunately, they are now behind me and I am facing the most difficult chapter in Daniel - now I know they speak about the actors and events that attempt to destroy / corrupt His Word but I am so lost.... If anyone is moved by this 2300 revelation and would kindly try and help me with chapter 11, I am sure we can solve this... and I guarantee you it would be more than enjoyable and rewarding.... Please consider. Thank you, Charlie

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Charlie,

7 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Fortunately, they are now behind me and I am facing the most difficult chapter in Daniel - now I know they speak about the actors and events that attempt to destroy / corrupt His Word but I am so lost.... If anyone is moved by this 2300 revelation and would kindly try and help me with chapter 11, I am sure we can solve this... and I guarantee you it would be more than enjoyable and rewarding.... Please consider. Thank you, Charlie

I appreciate your explanation, but I cannot accept your view nor your various applications of the time periods.

Kind regards Trevor

[ENOCH2010]

5 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

What does AOD stand for?

Abomination of desolation

 

[Sister]

On 2/14/2020 at 5:25 AM, Charlie744 said:

 

Trevor, very  kind of you to send / respond to this discussion and I do not know if you have seen my response to RevelationMan last week regarding the 2300 days but here it is:

 

I had previously mentioned to you folks in this forum that I began my Daniel study back in July, 2019.  It has been quite a struggle, however, every time I needed help, and this was just about after each verse, the Holy Spirit was willing...... There can be NO other reason for me having any reasonable understanding of any of the chapters in Daniel. I also mentioned that I am currently having an extremely difficult time with chapter 11 and I have not been able to get any traction on the verses so far.... I find myself continually requesting the help of the Holy Spirit.  I know He will since He has been there for the first 10 chapters and has revealed so many things (those 9 controversial issues) - I don't believe He would stop now.

Anyway, I would like to tell you what He has revealed to me regarding the 2300 days (and please believe me, this was not a calculation of my doing):

Here are the two verses in chapter 8:

Verse 13: Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Verse 14: And he said unto me, unto two thousand and three hundred days (evenings and mornings); then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

Who is the only one that can cleanse the sanctuary?  The High Priest.

Who is the only one that will take away ALL sins?    The Passover Lamb of God.

 

The Messiah will come and serve both as our High Priest and the Passover Lamb of God. ALL of His prophecies shown here in chapter 8 and those recorded in chapter 9:24, 27, etc., will / must be fulfilled before the end of the 70 week prophecy. The Messiah will fulfill all of these during the last wek of Daniel's 70th week.

On the first day of His ministry, Jesus was baptized by John in the Jordan River. The total period of the last 7 years is 2520 days (360 X 7). This will include 7 Passover Feasts. Because of His perfect timing, Jesus would attend the first 4 Passover's during His 3.5 year ministry (also symbolically representing the first four feasts of the 7 Jewish Feasts - last 3 will occur at His second coming). Jesus was to serve as our High Priest for all of the 7 Passover Feasts during the final week, unfortunately, 9:27 shows us He will be "cut off" in the midst of the final week. The total period from His baptism in the Jordan to the final Passover Feast is 2340 days (or 6.5 years X 360 days). 

As you are well aware, according to the laws of Leviticus, the High Priest MUST not enter the Holy of Holies unless he is ritually and spiritually cleansed -  otherwise, he will be immediately be killed. Consequently, the Messiah had to also follow the laws of Leviticus and be cleansed before He could serve as our High Priest. The very first thing Jesus did after His baptism was to go directly into the wilderness for 40 days. There, He would be tempted by the devil himself, and as we know, He would refute his temptations and respond with the Words of God (Deuteronomy).

Consequently, Jesus would be cleansed as our High Priest and since He was sinless, He would also be our Passover Lamb.  The total period from His baptism to the 7th Passover is 2340 days less the 40 days of cleansing in the wilderness of 40 days gives us the 2300 days (EXACTLY).

NOW, YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP?  PLEASE ACCEPT THIS COULD NOT POSSIBLY COME FROM ME.... I INDEED STRUGGLED WITH THIS CALCULATION FOR DAYS WITH ABSOLUTELY NO RESULTS. HE REVEALED IT TO ME IN ONE SECOND (WHEN HE DEEMED SO).

THE MESSIAH WOULD HAVE CLEANSED THE SANCTUARY AND REMOVED ALL SINS HAD WE NOT CRUCIFIED HIM ON THE 4TH PASSOVER. BUT IF YOU REMEMBER WHAT HE SAID ON THE CROSS:

"FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE", AND, "IT IS FINISHED".

 

Even though we did not allow Him to complete His mission (which would have be completed at the 7th Passover), He still was willing and able to

forgive all our sins, AND, declare that He had finished His mission.

 

This is what I meant in my previous responses when I mentioned we need to look for the Messiah in these prophecies and not some insignificant individuals like an Antiochus or his battles, wars or treatments of the Jews between the 3rd and 4th kingdoms. From mid chapter 8 onward, they point and speak about the Messiah.  The other 8 controversial issues previously mentioned also identify with Him..... without exception!

Fortunately, they are now behind me and I am facing the most difficult chapter in Daniel - now I know they speak about the actors and events that attempt to destroy / corrupt His Word but I am so lost.... If anyone is moved by this 2300 revelation and would kindly try and help me with chapter 11, I am sure we can solve this... and I guarantee you it would be more than enjoyable and rewarding.... Please consider. Thank you, Charlie

 

Charlie

Daniel 8 is tied to Daniel 11.

In chapter 8, the vision was given during the days of Babylon's reign.

He starts off with the Ram with two horns who was the Medo-Persians to come, so that we can follow the time line.

Next he talks about the kingdom to come after that which is the Grecians.  Follow the time line.  After Alexander's death, he jumps to the end time speaking about the False Prophet.  This is what the whole vision leads to.  What he is showing is that out of those four generals, in the end times, the little horn (FP) will come out of one of those 4 kingdoms.  Which one is it?  Keep that thought.  It's going to be revealed.

Now back to the false prophet;

  Daniel 8:11   Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

  Daniel 8:12   And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

  Daniel 8:13   Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

  Daniel 8:14   And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The false prophet is given a host.  All those working with him.  By him, the FP, the daily sacrifice was taken away. (it's future, but God is showing us the end, as if it already happened.)

What is the daily sacrifice?  It's not the sacrifice of lambs because it tells us in verse 12.  IT'S THE CASTING DOWN OF THE TRUTH.  All has been leading up to this, and now the TRUTH by this man, the Son of Perdition/FP/little horn will be utterly TRODDEN ON and DESTROYED through his deception.

The end of the 2300 days, is when Christ returns to cleanse the sanctuary, because strangers have entered it.  So go backwards 2300 days, and that's when the daily sacrifice will be taken away.  It's not a physical event, but a spiritual event.  The FP will be given power only 3.5 yrs to rule. Thats only 1290 days.  Before that must be when the beast is getting ready for his arrival.  They are spreading lies and getting the world prepared for him.  The FP is here already, but hasn't shown his face.  He is leading them to get all the preparations done.  It is possible that we have already entered into the 2300 days.

 

In chapter 11, the vision was given during the days of the Mede's reign.

Follow the time line again, because it leads up to this same FP.  In this chapter, we are given a little more detail about the king of the North and the King of the South.  In days old, they were against each other, but then they shook hands and did deals under the table.  IN THE LATTER TIMES OF THEIR KINGDOM, they are doing the same thing.  The king of the North back then had the upper hand which was Rome.  That's all we need to know.  Rome was the king of the North back then.   Rome today is not the same, because the end time beast has parts of Rome in it, but is working with other nations.  Together they are strong.  The false prophet will come out of one of these four kingdoms, and we are revealed it's the kingdom of the North.  In the end times, destruction comes from the north, unto Jerusalem to start with, and then to the whole world.

Dan 11 also points to the daily sacrifice being taken away.  That sanctuary of strength, is God's sanctuary where the truth is.  It's a spiritual building where one can go to to seek shelter. The FP and his host will pollute that sanctuary and replace it with lies.  No more sacrifices to be made for the sake of the truth because he has hidden that truth from the world.  The world have no shelter now because of the lies.  Therefore they won't be giving anything up for the Lord.  No daily sacrifices of the heart.  Nothing to do with animal sacrifices.

Daniel 11:31   And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

This does not specifically mention the 2300 days, but gives us the definition of the daily sacrifice being taken way by replacing the truth with a lie, however, it's tied in to Daniel 8.

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, Sister said:

Charlie

Daniel 8 is tied to Daniel 11.

In chapter 8, the vision was given during the days of Babylon's reign.

He starts off with the Ram with two horns who was the Medo-Persians to come, so that we can follow the time line.

Next he talks about the kingdom to come after that which is the Grecians.  Follow the time line.  After Alexander's death, he jumps to the end time speaking about the False Prophet.  This is what the whole vision leads to.  What he is showing is that out of those four generals, in the end times, the little horn (FP) will come out of one of those 4 kingdoms.  Which one is it?  Keep that thought.  It's going to be revealed.

Now back to the false prophet;

  Daniel 8:11   Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Hello Sister, the Little Horn is the coming Anti-Christ, Rev. 7 tells us this, he comes up with 10 other Kings {which may mean the complete number of Kings as 10 sometimes just means completeness} and as we see in Rev. 17 the Beast rules 42 months with the 10 Kings. 

We can see the False Prophet here vaguely speaking, in verse 11, he {Little Horn/Anti-Christ} magnifies himself to the prince of host {High Priest} and BY HIM.....Notice that ? He doesn't take the Sacrifice away, the prince of host does, so you are on the right track here, but you are conflating the two. If you study my Daniel 11 and 12 Exegesis, I show how Antiochus who was the TYPE Anti-Christ/Little Horn took a bribe from a Jewish man named Jason whose real name was Yeshua, so like Jesus is the Greek name so is Joshua and Jason other versions. This man named Jason bribed Antiochus who then killed Jason's real brother Onias III who was a Pious High Priest, and he then became the High Priest and tried to Hellenize the Jews leading to the Maccabean Revolt. To Hellenize meant to try and get the Jews to serve Greek gods, to try to get them to be like unto the Greeks in all their manners, the Word Gymnasium comes from Greece, the had Sporting Events in the nude etc. etc.  {I KIDD YOU NOT}

The gymnasium (Greek: γυμνάσιον) in Ancient Greece functioned as a training facility for competitors in public game(s). It was also a place for socializing and engaging in intellectual pursuits. The name comes from the Ancient Greek term gymnós meaning "naked". 

Gymnasium (ancient Greece) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Gymnasium_(ancient_Greece)

I know, I know, I have way too much information on hand !! But this was the Culture Jason tried to push onto the Jews of his day.

The Coming False Prophet had a TYPE also, his name was Jason. The TWO TYPES ruled at the exact same time, one over the Jewish Government and one over the Jewish Religion. The False Prophet will be a High Priest. John mentions the False Prophet. Daniel doesn't really mention him, just overtly. The reason is if he had pointed to a coming False Prophet in 500 BC the Jews for the next 500 years until Jesus and even unto 70 AD would have killed every other High Priest thinking to themselves, "Is this the one". So Daniel was not given the High Priest/False Prophet angle on purpose, only via overt mentions here and there. 

12 hours ago, Sister said:

  Daniel 8:12   And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

  Daniel 8:13   Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

  Daniel 8:14   And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The false prophet is given a host.  All those working with him.  By him, the FP, the daily sacrifice was taken away. (it's future, but God is showing us the end, as if it already happened.)

What is the daily sacrifice?  It's not the sacrifice of lambs because it tells us in verse 12.  IT'S THE CASTING DOWN OF THE TRUTH.  All has been leading up to this, and now the TRUTH by this man, the Son of Perdition/FP/little horn will be utterly TRODDEN ON and DESTROYED through his deception.

The end of the 2300 days, is when Christ returns to cleanse the sanctuary, because strangers have entered it.  So go backwards 2300 days, and that's when the daily sacrifice will be taken away.  It's not a physical event, but a spiritual event.  The FP will be given power only 3.5 yrs to rule. Thats only 1290 days.  Before that must be when the beast is getting ready for his arrival.  They are spreading lies and getting the world prepared for him.  The FP is here already, but hasn't shown his face.  He is leading them to get all the preparations done.  It is possible that we have already entered into the 2300 days.

And what is THE TRUTH ? Even at that future time, what will be THE TRUTH ? That Jesus Christ is THE SACRIFICE !! The False Prophet {High Priest who has two horns like a Lamb but speaks as a Dragon} stops the Jews who repented from worshiping Jesus Christ in the Temple then places an IMAGE of the Little Horn in the Temple, this he desolates the holy of holies. 

 

[Charlie744]

On 2/13/2020 at 9:33 PM, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Charlie,

I appreciate your explanation, but I cannot accept your view nor your various applications of the time periods.

Kind regards Trevor

TrevorL, thank you very much for taking the time to read the interpretation. Look forward to discussing some additional topics in Daniel in the near future, Charlie

[Charlie744]

15 hours ago, Sister said:

Charlie

Daniel 8 is tied to Daniel 11.

In chapter 8, the vision was given during the days of Babylon's reign.

He starts off with the Ram with two horns who was the Medo-Persians to come, so that we can follow the time line.

Next he talks about the kingdom to come after that which is the Grecians.  Follow the time line.  After Alexander's death, he jumps to the end time speaking about the False Prophet.  This is what the whole vision leads to.  What he is showing is that out of those four generals, in the end times, the little horn (FP) will come out of one of those 4 kingdoms.  Which one is it?  Keep that thought.  It's going to be revealed.

Now back to the false prophet;

  Daniel 8:11   Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

  Daniel 8:12   And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

  Daniel 8:13   Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

  Daniel 8:14   And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The false prophet is given a host.  All those working with him.  By him, the FP, the daily sacrifice was taken away. (it's future, but God is showing us the end, as if it already happened.)

What is the daily sacrifice?  It's not the sacrifice of lambs because it tells us in verse 12.  IT'S THE CASTING DOWN OF THE TRUTH.  All has been leading up to this, and now the TRUTH by this man, the Son of Perdition/FP/little horn will be utterly TRODDEN ON and DESTROYED through his deception.

The end of the 2300 days, is when Christ returns to cleanse the sanctuary, because strangers have entered it.  So go backwards 2300 days, and that's when the daily sacrifice will be taken away.  It's not a physical event, but a spiritual event.  The FP will be given power only 3.5 yrs to rule. Thats only 1290 days.  Before that must be when the beast is getting ready for his arrival.  They are spreading lies and getting the world prepared for him.  The FP is here already, but hasn't shown his face.  He is leading them to get all the preparations done.  It is possible that we have already entered into the 2300 days.

 

In chapter 11, the vision was given during the days of the Mede's reign.

Follow the time line again, because it leads up to this same FP.  In this chapter, we are given a little more detail about the king of the North and the King of the South.  In days old, they were against each other, but then they shook hands and did deals under the table.  IN THE LATTER TIMES OF THEIR KINGDOM, they are doing the same thing.  The king of the North back then had the upper hand which was Rome.  That's all we need to know.  Rome was the king of the North back then.   Rome today is not the same, because the end time beast has parts of Rome in it, but is working with other nations.  Together they are strong.  The false prophet will come out of one of these four kingdoms, and we are revealed it's the kingdom of the North.  In the end times, destruction comes from the north, unto Jerusalem to start with, and then to the whole world.

Dan 11 also points to the daily sacrifice being taken away.  That sanctuary of strength, is God's sanctuary where the truth is.  It's a spiritual building where one can go to to seek shelter. The FP and his host will pollute that sanctuary and replace it with lies.  No more sacrifices to be made for the sake of the truth because he has hidden that truth from the world.  The world have no shelter now because of the lies.  Therefore they won't be giving anything up for the Lord.  No daily sacrifices of the heart.  Nothing to do with animal sacrifices.

Daniel 11:31   And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

This does not specifically mention the 2300 days, but gives us the definition of the daily sacrifice being taken way by replacing the truth with a lie, however, it's tied in to Daniel 8.

Sister, thank you for reading the comment on the 2300 days and also taking such time and consideration in responding. Clearly you enjoy the Word of God and probably Daniel in particular.  Although we seem to have different interpretations on the 2300 days and the timing of some of the verses, it was / is very enjoyable to learn your interpretation.  I am not sure but I have not seen this view in my readings of many of the scholars and commentators found online in all my searches....The most important point is that Daniel is quite difficult to interpret  - if not, all the brilliant scholars and theologians during the past 2000 years would have unpacked it by now and come to a consensus. Instead, we are all continuing to read, discuss and learn His Word - and that is most important!  As we get closer to the end times, which I believe is quite soon, He will open our eyes and minds to His prophecies and it will be so clear.  

Despite the difference in our views, I would like to ask you, as well as other "thinking" individuals on this site (many who have already responded), to provide your opinion / understanding of the specific actors or events within certain verses of Daniel.... I have had tremendous difficulty with Daniel 11 and MAYBE have determined / identified the actors / events associated with verses 5 -14 (again, this is a process).  Consequently, I need to take this one verse at a time to ensure their is continuity --- if it is incorrect, it will fail by its own weight!

Therefore, can you please tell me who you believe are the actors / events in verse 15 ONLY?  If there are any others who would like to comment - I welcome your thoughts as well.... again, just ONE verse at a time and thanks in advance, Charlie

 

 

[Sister]

5 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Sister, thank you for reading the comment on the 2300 days and also taking such time and consideration in responding. Clearly you enjoy the Word of God and probably Daniel in particular.  Although we seem to have different interpretations on the 2300 days and the timing of some of the verses, it was / is very enjoyable to learn your interpretation.  I am not sure but I have not seen this view in my readings of many of the scholars and commentators found online in all my searches....The most important point is that Daniel is quite difficult to interpret  - if not, all the brilliant scholars and theologians during the past 2000 years would have unpacked it by now and come to a consensus. Instead, we are all continuing to read, discuss and learn His Word - and that is most important!  As we get closer to the end times, which I believe is quite soon, He will open our eyes and minds to His prophecies and it will be so clear.  

Despite the difference in our views, I would like to ask you, as well as other "thinking" individuals on this site (many who have already responded), to provide your opinion / understanding of the specific actors or events within certain verses of Daniel.... I have had tremendous difficulty with Daniel 11 and MAYBE have determined / identified the actors / events associated with verses 5 -14 (again, this is a process).  Consequently, I need to take this one verse at a time to ensure their is continuity --- if it is incorrect, it will fail by its own weight!

Therefore, can you please tell me who you believe are the actors / events in verse 15 ONLY?  If there are any others who would like to comment - I welcome your thoughts as well.... again, just ONE verse at a time and thanks in advance, Charlie

 

 

Hi Charlie

I admit this chapter is very hard to interpret, and as more information comes to light, the prophecies will become clearer for me at least.

Daniel 11:15   So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand.

I don't know who exactly was that king of the north without going through mountains of history, and neither do I think it's important.  To me, the king of the North has been identified as Rome back then.  Today there is no kingdom of Rome, but according to Dan 2, the image ends with 10 toes mixed with iron and clay.  The iron in this end time kingdom shows that the old Rome, king of the North is involved, but is now a mixed kingdom, all working together, and will be given even more power than what it once had.  It all leads to this end time kingdom, the beast who are the kings of the North, whom God will send to punish the whole world.  Sorry I can't help you with the specific's.  God didn't give names, and I would hate to get even one name wrong.  My view is that it doesn't matter, just follow what this king of the North will do in the end times.