The "Day of the Lord: Where in Revelation does it begin?

[iamlamad]

How about this entire passage: what is the message? History to John, or future to us?

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: [The constellation Virgo - representing Mary the Virgin]

² And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. [She is about to give birth to Jesus]

³ And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. [Satan as the Dragon]

⁴ And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. [Satan as the Dragon cast out of heaven, here about to convince King Herod to murder all the children under 2)

⁵ And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. [Jesus was born - Satan failed  - King Herod failed - Jesus fulfilled His ministry and was caught up into the throne room as seen by John in chapter 5]

This was Jesus introducing John to the Dragon; but here Jesus chose to show John what the dragon did when Jesus was a very young boy - how the Dragon used King Herod to try and Kill Jesus. 

So...history to John - or future to us?

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: [The constellation Virgo - representing Mary the Virgin]

² And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

 

[iamlamad]

Just now, Justin Adams said:

 

Exactly: however, due to the math problems of no "zero" year, you must subtract one year. This shows 3 BC when it is really 2 BC. 

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Exactly: however, due to the math problems of no "zero" year, you must subtract one year. This shows 3 BC when it is really 2 BC. 

Maybe true. You have said that before. However our modern star charts are very exact, so I am unsure if they don't know what year it is all in. The observatories all have their own methods, so 2 or 3 BC is OK by me anyway. I could download the massive observatory programs, but I do not think I will. So I will let your statement stand since I have no objective way to comment further.

 

[luigi]

22 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You are trying to REWRITE what John wrote: Here is your version:

I will shew thee ONLY things which must be hereafter.

Sorry, John did not say that. You are putting God in a future box that He, God, never put himself in.

Is this part of Revelation future or past? Rev. 12:

⁴ And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth....

Just to be sure you did not miss this:

"I might add, if you disagree with my answer to the three questions, it will be what Jesus said: you will never understand this part of John's vision. "

So by your claiming revelation 4 commences before Christ is crucified, Revelation 4:1 should then have said something on par with, "I will show you things which must be hereafter, but beginning with historical events first." If the Lord wanted to add to His Word, He would have done so, but didn't. The Lord warns not to add to His Word, as you seem to be doing.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

[iamlamad]

Just now, luigi said:

So by your claiming revelation 4 commences before Christ is crucified, Revelation 4:1 should then have said something on par with, "I will show you things which must be hereafter, but beginning with historical events first." If the Lord wanted to add to His Word, He would have done so, but didn't. The Lord warns not to add to His Word, as you seem to be doing.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

So STOP trying to add an "only." Why would you do that? Why put God in a "future" box as if He is not sovereign and can include some history if He chose to - which He did. 

If you would bother to read what I wrote, perhaps you could learn something about chapters 4 & 5. It was HOW God taught me about those chapters. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

7 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Maybe true. You have said that before. However our modern star charts are very exact, so I am unsure if they don't know what year it is all in. The observatories all have their own methods, so 2 or 3 BC is OK by me anyway. I could download the massive observatory programs, but I do not think I will. So I will let your statement stand since I have no objective way to comment further.

I read that under the instructions on the Stellarium instructions. One year is not important. That He was born is exceedingly important!

[luigi]

30 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

 

Is this part of Revelation future or past? Rev. 12:

⁴ And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth....

Just to be sure you did not miss this:

"I might add, if you disagree with my answer to the three questions, it will be what Jesus said: you will never understand this part of John's vision. "

The dragon's tail that casts the third part of the stars of heaven to the earth, is Satan using the little horn who casts some of heavens hosts, the Lord's angels to the ground and stomps all over them in Daniel 8:10. The Lord's angels being luminaries who illumine mankind with truth are what the little horn casts to the ground and stomps upon, described in Daniel 8:12. The little horn is the ten horned beast's mouth who shall wear out the saints for a time, times, and dividing of time (Daniel 7:25), all of which is to occur in our near future. I have pointed these correlating data between Revelation and Daniel to you before in other posts, which you seem to totally disregard by asking me to repeat these data.

Daniel 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

[luigi]

6 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

So STOP trying to add an "only." Why would you do that? Why put God in a "future" box as if He is not sovereign and can include some history if He chose to - which He did. 

If you would bother to read what I wrote, perhaps you could learn something about chapters 4 & 5. It was HOW God taught me about those chapters. 

The Lord said the events to be shown John after Revelation 4:1 were "hereafter", and He did not include prior historical events, which you are doing, and thereby are adding to His Word.

[luigi]

38 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

How about this entire passage: what is the message? History to John, or future to us?

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: [The constellation Virgo - representing Mary the Virgin]

² And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. [She is about to give birth to Jesus]

³ And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. [Satan as the Dragon]

⁴ And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. [Satan as the Dragon cast out of heaven, here about to convince King Herod to murder all the children under 2)

⁵ And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. [Jesus was born - Satan failed  - King Herod failed - Jesus fulfilled His ministry and was caught up into the throne room as seen by John in chapter 5]

This was Jesus introducing John to the Dragon; but here Jesus chose to show John what the dragon did when Jesus was a very young boy - how the Dragon used King Herod to try and Kill Jesus. 

So...history to John - or future to us?

If you take the Lord at His Word and understand that Revelation 12 are hereafter events, after the 1st century AD, you would then understand that who is being born in Revelation 12 is not Jesus' birth. As such, the Lord provides us another set of scriptures on who this birth regards. The Lord Jesus who will come from Bethlehem and is to be ruler in Israel (Micah 5:2) gives up His days on earth when crucified, until she which travaileth (a future event) brings forth, seen in Micah 5:3.

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. 3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

Edited July 11, 2020 by luigi