The "Day of the Lord: Where in Revelation does it begin?

[iamlamad]

24 minutes ago, luigi said:

If you take the Lord at His Word and understand that Revelation 12 are hereafter events, after the 1st century AD, you would then understand that who is being born in Revelation 12 is not Jesus' birth. As such, the Lord provides us another set of scriptures on who this birth regards. The Lord Jesus who will come from Bethlehem and is to be ruler in Israel (Micah 5:2) gives up His days on earth when crucified, until she which travaileth (a future event) brings forth, seen in Micah 5:3.

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. 3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

You are free to believe whatever you want about Rev. 12. All I can tell us what Jesus Christ, the head of the church, spoke to me: ". I also chose to show John what the dragon did when I was born. The first five verses were a ‘history lesson’ for John. Questions:

Question 1: Is there a constellation we call "Virgo?" You know there is.  Perhaps you don't know that John told us exactly what Virgo looked like in 2 BC when Jesus was born. 

Notice the moon under her feet? Notice the sun "clothing" her? It might be hard to see, but there are 12 stars forming a crown. 

12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Question 2: why would God put "Virgo" in the sky and show us exactly what she would have looked in around Sept. 1, 2 BC - if this verse was not about the birth of Christ?

Question 3: Did Mary "travail" in birth?

² And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Question 4: Did Satan make an attempt to Kill Jesus when He was very young?

⁴ ... and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Question 5: Did Mary bring forth a man child?

⁵ And she brought forth a man child...

Question 6:  Is it written anywhere that this manchild (Jesus) is to rule with a rod of Iron?

^{5 ...}And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron

Question 7: After Jesus finished His work on earth, was He caught up to heaven?

⁵ ...her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Question 8: Did Jesus ever tell those living in Judea to flee into the wilderness?  

⁶ And the woman fled into the wilderness... 

Question 9: Where did Jesus ever tell the church to flee into the wilderness?

Question 10: What old Testament scripture talked about the "sun and Moon and 12 stars?

Genesis 37:9   And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

What nation would this verse be referencing?  Of course, the nation of Israel with the 12 tribes. ("me" plus 11)

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Question 11: WHO lives in Judea: the church or a subset of Israel?

When we use good exegesis and compare scripture will scripture (rather than scripture with imagination) we end up with truth. These five verses are exactly what Jesus Christ, the head of the church TOLD ME they were: Jesus chose to show John how the devil tried to kill him as a child. The entire chapter is about the Dragon or devil, mentioned 32 times. in truth, a subset of the church does show up later in the chapter - but the chapter is for the JEWs in the last half of the 70th week (a week for the Jews.)

¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Why "remnant?" Simple: the "main load" went out with the pretrib rapture. the only people left that love Jesus are those who were left behind at the rapture and then turned to follow Jesus. One could argue that the church is the seed of the woman: Jesus was a Jew from Israel. He started the church. the church then is the seed of Israel. 

 

[luigi]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You are free to believe whatever you want about Rev. 12. All I can tell us what Jesus Christ, the head of the church, spoke to me: ". I also chose to show John what the dragon did when I was born. The first five verses were a ‘history lesson’ for John. Questions:

Question 1: Is there a constellation we call "Virgo?" You know there is.  Perhaps you don't know that John told us exactly what Virgo looked like in 2 BC when Jesus was born. 

Notice the moon under her feet? Notice the sun "clothing" her? It might be hard to see, but there are 12 stars forming a crown. 

12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Question 2: why would God put "Virgo" in the sky and show us exactly what she would have looked in around Sept. 1, 2 BC - if this verse was not about the birth of Christ?

Question 3: Did Mary "travail" in birth?

² And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Question 4: Did Satan make an attempt to Kill Jesus when He was very young?

⁴ ... and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Question 5: Did Mary bring forth a man child?

⁵ And she brought forth a man child...

Question 6:  Is it written anywhere that this manchild (Jesus) is to rule with a rod of Iron?

^{5 ...}And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron

Question 7: After Jesus finished His work on earth, was He caught up to heaven?

⁵ ...her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Question 8: Did Jesus ever tell those living in Judea to flee into the wilderness?  

⁶ And the woman fled into the wilderness... 

Question 9: Where did Jesus ever tell the church to flee into the wilderness?

Question 10: What old Testament scripture talked about the "sun and Moon and 12 stars?

Genesis 37:9   And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

What nation would this verse be referencing?  Of course, the nation of Israel with the 12 tribes. ("me" plus 11)

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Question 11: WHO lives in Judea: the church or a subset of Israel?

When we use good exegesis and compare scripture will scripture (rather than scripture with imagination) we end up with truth. These five verses are exactly what Jesus Christ, the head of the church TOLD ME they were: Jesus chose to show John how the devil tried to kill him as a child. The entire chapter is about the Dragon or devil, mentioned 32 times. in truth, a subset of the church does show up later in the chapter - but the chapter is for the JEWs in the last half of the 70th week (a week for the Jews.)

¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Why "remnant?" Simple: the "main load" went out with the pretrib rapture. the only people left that love Jesus are those who were left behind at the rapture and then turned to follow Jesus. One could argue that the church is the seed of the woman: Jesus was a Jew from Israel. He started the church. the church then is the seed of Israel. 

 

I'll stick to the Lord's Word, and the correlations He provides us so that I can more accurately ascertain what He is telling me. If you prefer not to see these correlations in scriptures and instead choose astrology or some other non Word means to come up with your views, well that's up to you. Bye for now.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

The Lord said the events to be shown John after Revelation 4:1 were "hereafter", and He did not include prior historical events, which you are doing, and thereby are adding to His Word.

You are the one adding: you are, without being aware, added and ONLY. Jesus did not tell us that John would write ONLY of end time events. Worse, you are putting God in a "future" box as if He could not include things from History.

Question: DID John write of future things? You know He did! Therefore, John FULFILLED this verse. 

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth

Are you going to tell us that Satan being cast out and taking 1/3 of the angels with him is future? 99.99% of the church believes this happened before God created the earth. I think you need to answer the questions Jesus asked me:

WHY was Jesus not immediately seen at the right hand of the Father in Rev. 4?

Why was the Holy Spirit still there in chapter 4? (He was sent down in chapter 5)

Why was "no man found" in that first search?

Maybe you can do better than I did: I could not at first answer one of these questions. Not even after weeks of study. 

[iamlamad]

Just now, luigi said:

I'll stick to the Lord's Word, and the correlations He provides us so that I can more accurately ascertain what He is telling me. If you prefer not to see these correlations in scriptures and instead choose astrology or some other non Word means to come up with your views, well that's up to you. Bye for now.

I quoted line upon line - which YOU choose to ignore. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

The dragon's tail that casts the third part of the stars of heaven to the earth, is Satan using the little horn who casts some of heavens hosts, the Lord's angels to the ground and stomps all over them in Daniel 8:10. The Lord's angels being luminaries who illumine mankind with truth are what the little horn casts to the ground and stomps upon, described in Daniel 8:12. The little horn is the ten horned beast's mouth who shall wear out the saints for a time, times, and dividing of time (Daniel 7:25), all of which is to occur in our near future. I have pointed these correlating data between Revelation and Daniel to you before in other posts, which you seem to totally disregard by asking me to repeat these data.

Daniel 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Hmmm. That is good imagination: I'll give you that. Sorry, no "little horn" mentioned. I will give you a little credit for trying.

[luigi]

21 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Hmmm. That is good imagination: I'll give you that. Sorry, no "little horn" mentioned. I will give you a little credit for trying.

I don't know what bible version you use iamlamad, but I use the King James Version, in which the one who casts some of heavens hosts and the stars (the Lord's angels) to the ground (Daniel 8:10), representing the Lord's truth two verses later in Daniel 8:12, is described as a little horn in Daniel 8:9. This is the same little horn who rises from one of the beast's 10 horns in Daniel 7:8, described also as the beast's mouth speaking great things.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

 

Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

I don't know what bible version you use iamlamad, but I use the King James Version, in which the one who casts some of heavens hosts and the stars (the Lord's angels) to the ground (Daniel 8:10), representing the Lord's truth two verses later in Daniel 8:12, is described as a little horn in Daniel 8:9. This is the same little horn who rises from one of the beast's 10 horns in Daniel 7:8, described also as the beast's mouth speaking great things.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

 

Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Sorry, but the "stars" in this case are Jews that love God and want to serve Him - perhaps some of the Priests. Antiochus certainly killed many Jews. 

No, sorry, this little horn came out of the 4 generals, NOT from ten horns. This is a different little horn. He overthrew the temple worship GOD HIMSELF had established, so came face to face, so to speak, with God. 

You really must learn to keep verses in their context.

[WilliamL]

On 7/7/2020 at 7:16 AM, iamlamad said:

If I understand, you are claiming a 6th seal rapture? Then a 6th seal start of the Day of the Lord?

Yes. The rapture of the "general assembly and church of firstborn" (Heb. 12:23) will be at the 6th Seal appearance of the Father and the Son in the clouds of heaven.

[luigi]

49 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but the "stars" in this case are Jews that love God and want to serve Him - perhaps some of the Priests. Antiochus certainly killed many Jews. 

No, sorry, this little horn came out of the 4 generals, NOT from ten horns. This is a different little horn. He overthrew the temple worship GOD HIMSELF had established, so came face to face, so to speak, with God. 

You really must learn to keep verses in their context.

So you make the Lord an author of confusion by claiming the little horn in Daniel 7 different from the little horn in Daniel 8. Something even a novice author would know how to differentiate, if they were different entities. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

So you make the Lord an author of confusion by claiming the little horn in Daniel 7 different from the little horn in Daniel 8. Something even a novice author would know how to differentiate, if they were different entities. 

God is certainly able and allowed to have signs in the sun and moon TWICE, one as the sign for the Day of the Lord and anotehr as the sign for his coming to Armageddon; God is certainly allowed to come TWICE MORE, once FOR His saints and again WITH His saints; and God is allowed and well able to speak of TWO "little Horns," one a type of the other.