7 year tribulation

[Spock]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Spock, I have to agree with your own / earlier comment - it is most likely time for you to move on to another topic.  

There indeed has been a significant amount of information presented by some talented folks in this site but it appears you are still comfortable with your own interpretation—- and that is fine!

And even though you will never agree- Daniel IS writing about the Messiah, He IS writing about the covenant mentioned in Jeremiah, he is writing about the crucifixion where He was cut off in the midst of Daniel’s last week, he IS writing about Daniel’s last week- the final 7 years of the 70 weeks prophecy, and .... well, I think we are done here....

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you seem happy with yours... NEXT!

 

 

And you seem happy with yours.....

let me remind you Charlie, I came into the Daniel 9 discussion with an OPEN MIND which means if I read something that slaps me in the face as TRUTH I would like to think I would respond to it and change my thinking in a new direction.  BUT.....I still want my questions answered and I want to make sure mans interpretation doesn’t violate God’s word. In this instance, I see the 70th week as literal...there will be a literal covenant confirmed for one week....not eternal, but one week. Maybe I’m wrong in thinking this, but that’s okay....it’s my call. So yes, I will keep asking someone who shares their interpretation about the 7 year covenant that God through Daniel writes about. I know the first 69 weeks were literal and fulfilled scripture to the T.  I hold the same standard for week 70.  If that upsets you, you are going to have to deal with it, just as we all have to when we read something we disagree with. Oh, and by the way, I said I came on here with an open mind....is your mind open or is it made up? Made up meaning you absolutely know the truth and cannot be persuaded to see things differently? 

I only stuck around wondering if anyone would explain the 7 year covenant.....I guess not to my satisfaction....but I did like your explanation the best.....”I ain’t got nothing” 

[Spock]

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Which just goes to shows ya that you should spend more time reading my blogs!

Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 6: Do Verses 26b-27 Prophesy Future Events?

Daniel 9:26b “…and people of a leader/commander, the one coming in, he shall cause to destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end shall be with a flood of attackers, and unto an end of battle/warfare, desolations being decreed. 27 And he shall cause to prevail/confirm (or, shall make strong) a covenant for the multitude one week; and in the midst/middle of the week, he shall cause to cease blood sacrifice and offering. And upon/over a wing/corner shall be abominations/idols of a destroyer, even until a (the) consummation/complete end so having been decreed shall be poured out upon a desolator.”

These verses speak about a number of very specific events, and three specific people. An itemization:

1) A commander of a military force shall cause his army to destroy both Jerusalem and its Sanctuary.

2) That commander shall come/go in – in context, into the Land of Israel.

3) The Sanctuary shall be overwhelmed by a flood of attackers.

4) The commander shall cause his people to make or confirm some kind of covenant with a multitude of the people of Israel for seven years.

5) Either approximately or exactly (the Hebrew text allows for either) in the middle of the seven years, the commander shall be the cause of an end to blood sacrifice and other offerings.

6) “An intensive desolator” = “a destroyer” shall commit abominations, and/or bring idols over or upon a wing/corner of the Temple. Nothing indicates that this destroyer is the commander

7) That idolatry shall continue until a complete end, one having been decreed or determined at some point, shall be “poured out upon a desolator.” This water metaphor “poured out” hearkens back to verse 26ʼs words “its [the Sanctuaryʼs] end shall be with a flood.” Likewise, the ʻdecreed endʼ of verse 27 likely refers back to the ʻdecreed desolationsʼ of verse 26, at least in part.

from: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1605-daniel-924-27-examined-part-6-do-verses-26b-27-prophesy-future-events/

Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 7: Were Verses 26b-27 Fulfilled Historically?

Here is some of the historical viewʼs evidence, showing that Daniel 9:26b-27ʼs seven specific prophecies have already been fulfilled:

1-2) Vespasian, a widely-revered Roman military commander, arrived in the Holy Land in early 67 A.D. Emperor Nero had sent him to quell a revolt begun in 66 by many of the Jews against their corrupt Roman overlords. Vespasian established (caused) these two Roman policies for the duration of the Jewish War of 66/67-73:

I) Any Jew who peacefully re-submitted to Romeʼs authority was to be spared, and be allowed to live in peace. See #4 below.

II) Any Jew who continued to resist that authority was to be ruthlessly subdued. In the Spring, Vespasian, accompanied by his son Titus, three legions, and auxiliary troops altogether amounting to more than 60,000 men, began to war against the rebels in Galilee.

1, 3) Vespasianʼs policy #II ultimately caused the Roman army to destroy both Jerusalem and its Sanctuary, because the Jewish rebels continued to use both places as fortresses of defense.

4) Vespasian, by means of his policy #I, made covenants of peace with a number of important non-resisting cities. Essentially, he was merely “confirming” Romeʼs original covenant with the Jews, which allowed them – uniquely among the peoples of the Empire – to practice only their own mono-theistic religion, provided that they submitted to Roman civil authority.

According to the record by Josephus,

The Jewish War, Whiston version; Preface 8: [Vespasian] took…some of its [Galilee’s] cities by treaties, and on terms.

III:2:4 …the inhabitants of Sepphoris…the largest city of Galilee…received Vespasian, the Roman general, very kindly, and readily promised that they would assist him…

III:9:8 Now the seniors of the people [of Tiberius]…fell down before Vespasian, to supplicate his favor… Vespasian…accepted of their rights hands by way of security…[and] the citizens opened to him their gates…

from: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

 

Where do you see “7 years” in what you wrote? 

[Retrobyter]

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

Actually it's not. The word form here for desolate in 9:27 denotes the one who is the cause: "׳שׁ as noun horror-causer, appaller, Daniel 9:27." You and others affix the incorrect usage by the wrong form.

Shalom, Diaste.

Actually, it IS! You show me a Hebrew shin and hope it means something? I'm looking right at my TANAKH, in the Ketuviym (the Writings, since Daniel is not considered among the prophets in the Hebrew Bible), and the last words in the passage are "`al-shomeem," "upon/against [the]-appalled!" In this case, it's the appalled offenders, because it reflects back to what we just read, "v-`al knaf shiquwtsiym m-shomeem," or "and-upon/against an-extended-wing of-abominations, he-shall-appall!" It's not the one who causes the "horror" against whom the decision is made; it's the ones who are "horrified" or "appalled," against whom the decision is made!

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's a passionate argument to be sure but not a very strong one.

"...and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease".

First we would have to determine what week and then find the acts that designated the middle of that week, and that would have to witnessed and recorded as unequivocal or the prophecy would not have come to pass. Second, it's not said the spiritual meaning and significance of the the type and shadow of the sacrifice and the oblation would cease. That is your argument and it's not implied here. This is clearly the physical act of ritual and liturgy aside from the spiritual and eternal truth of the once for all atonement of Christ. 

Seriously?! You would argue this way? The "what week," or rather the "what Seven," is the last Seven of the seventy Sevens he's been talking about!

It's the Seven in which the Messiah has just re-enforced the Davidic Covenant, by submitting to His own mikvah - His own ritual cleansing - and hearing His Father's words, "THIS is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased!" Words from the Davidic Covenant! No longer was the covenant just a vague, "oh, that's nice" set of words in the distant past! This Covenant was brought TANGIBLY into the the Messiah's PRESENT! God AUDIBLY VERIFIED the words and ENDORSED HIS SON!

In the MIDDLE of that Seven, a mere 3.5 years after God's endorsement, these power-hungry, no good, sorry-for-excuses-to-be-elders of the Jews stabbed Him in the back with their shiquwtsiym! Then, they CRUCIFIED Him.... not realizing that in doing so, as the high priest Caiaphas said, "one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not."

John 11:47-53 (KJV)

47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said,

"What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. 48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation! 

49 And one of them, named Caiaphas (Aramaic: Kayefa'), being the high priest that same year, said unto them,

"Ye know nothing at all, 50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not."

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. 53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

But, AS THEY CRUCIFIED HIM, His body became the Sacrifice "ONCE AND FOR ALL!"

Matthew 27:45-54 (KJV)

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,

"Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?"

that is to say,

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said,

"This man calleth for Elias!" 

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink. 49 The rest said,

"Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him."

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying,

"Truly this was the Son of God!"

To which the author of Hebrews said,

Hebrews 10:8-22 (KJV)

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 

 

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

That's all well and good but none of that shows the prophecy has come to pass, it's just a belief and a hope.

We are told by Jesus to look to Daniel for the truth of the A of D. This particular A of D as spoken of Jesus and recorded in Matt and Mark is associated with the end of the age near to the time when Jesus will return. This A of D as foretold must come to pass near to GT and the return of Christ; and all witnessed by the terminal generation. Didn't happen yet. 

No, it wasn't "WE" who were "told by Yeshua` to look to Daniel for the truth of the A of D." That's your problem! You're not realizing (or accepting) the point that Yeshua` was talking to His disciples about events NEAR AND FAR INTO THE FUTURE! I'll be glad to concede that some events, like the Second Coming of the Messiah Yeshua`, were far into the future, but NOT EVERYTHING HE TALKED ABOUT WAS FAR INTO THE FUTURE! Some things, like their persecution by the Jews and the Romans, were near at hand in THEIR future!

As I've said before, those who don't learn from the past are DOOMED to think that those events are yet to be fulfilled in the future!

[canada]

And in the midst of the seven he  (Y'shua) caused (the need) for the sacrifice to continue by the sacrifice of himself ... ...

[Charlie744]

These are the kind of words one can read over and over... I don’t think He has or will do anything without telling us first!

There is no way the Jews could have seen this before the Cross. There is no reason we should not see this on this side of the Cross.

As brilliant and scholarly as Saul was, he could not recognize the Messiah. After the Cross it took a special event with the risen Lord to gain his true site. Then he would spend time with Him in the desert being tutored by Jesus Himself!

Now Saul (Paul) would be qualified to preach to the gentiles... Contrary to the RCC, if anyone were to be the “first pope”, if you will (but of course only Jesus deserves our worship), it would not be Peter! 

Peter was a fisherman who did not have anywhere near the knowledge and wisdom of the Scriptures as Saul. But even Saul would not be allowed to preach to the gentiles UNTIL He was properly taught by Jesus... Jesus was not going to allow anyone to the world and possibly “get it wrong”!

So, we have the story of the Messiah and His crucifixion right where He said it would be - Ue gave us Daniel before the Cross, then the Messiah fulfilled those prophecies specifically identified in the book of Daniel, and then He ensured Saul had understood EVERYTHING about Him that was written in all the books of the Bible, and where He (Saul) would write to the world about Him, His prophecies, His crucifixion, His resurrection, and His  New Covenant for many (those who would accept it)... and do much more!

We have Daniel, the actual events of the 3.5 years of His ministry, the Gospels, and the writings of Saul to tell us His Story—with the possible exception of our own misinterpretations and our more than likely mistranslations, we should have no excuse or problem finding the Messiah in these (His) Words...

Thanks, Charlie 

 

[Retrobyter]

17 hours ago, Diaste said:

Seriously...I can just hear the dialogue after the Olivet discourse.

Luke: Daniel said "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week" What's the antecedent?

John: Yeah, you can't have the antecedent in a prepositional phrase.

Luke: What he said.

Matthew: So are you going to destroy the Temple?

Mark: Yeah, it sounds like you are making a 7 year agreement.

Matthew: And like, your the prince of some other people?

Luke: Wait, you are going to destroy the Temple?

Jesus: (I need different disciples.)

Shalom, Diaste.

Humorous, but hardly believable. First of all, Luke wasn't there. Second, you can drop the "you can't have the antecedent in a prepositional phrase" garbage. My point was that "you can't have the SUBJECT OF THE SENTENCE in a prepositional phrase." The "antecedent" stuff was simply because we were looking at an English translation of the Hebrew, and it's the HEBREW that counts!

17 hours ago, Diaste said:

And you have no evidence, just opinion. In all your logic in the above it is only your opinion that "He was only able to offer the Kingdom for 3.5 years before they rejected Him and crucified Him" correlates to the middle of the week from Daniel 9. It's as farfetched as anything I have seen, and remember I have been in this forum for some time. 

Big deal. What good is it to hear anything, whether it's "farfetched" or not, if you're not going to consider it or learn from it? Good deduction from facts is as good as any evidence one might want! It's certainly as good as a "smoking gun" in the courtroom! If one can say, "A AND B --> C," and "~D --> ~C OR ~A," then if one can show A and B are true, one can first say that "A AND C --> D," and then one can say D is true! Simple logic!

Now, just what do you think Yeshua` was doing when He was presenting Himself to the children of Israel as their Messiah? Do you even KNOW what "Messiah" truly means? Take that truth, if you know it, to the nth degree! He was OFFERING THEM THE KINGDOM!

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within your grasp): repent ye, and believe the gospel."

Matthew 4:23-25 (KJV)

23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. 25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

THINK about it! He wasn't offering them "the Church," y'know! He also wasn't telling them about His "death, burial, and resurrection," either! John was His herald. When He lost His herald, He had to do His own heralding, and that's what keerussoon (translated "preaching") means, "heralding (like a town cryer)." And, what is the gospel or good news about the Kingdom of God?

Isaiah 52:7 (KJV)

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

THAT'S the "gospel of the Kingdom!"

THAT'S what Yeshua` heralded! And, the Messiah of God - the Anointed of God - is the King that God appoints to give a face to the fact that He is reigning in their Kingdom!

17 hours ago, Diaste said:

"Since He was crucified immediately after leaving them "desolate,"" You would have to provide some direct evidence for this for it to be true. Was it the next hour? The next day? A week later? Where is the statement Jesus was crucified immediately following "Behold, your house is left to you desolate."?

While I grant you the fact that "immediately" can be relative, when we're talking about "Sevens of years," a few days is "immediately." Yeshua` came to Jerusalem in His "triumphal entry" in Matthew 21. Yeshua` pronounced them "desolate" in Matthew 23:38; then, He gave the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24. By Matthew 27, He was crucified. That IS a matter of days.

17 hours ago, Diaste said:

Well that's just subjective and arbitrary. When did I agree to what constitutes major and minor points? Your approach is incorrect. This expedition to truth is a mining operation not mathematical equations. I reject your approach and conclusions as it's not based on solid detective work but on variables. 

It's not truly necessary for you to agree with truth for it to be truth.

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Diaste.

Humorous, but hardly believable. First of all, Luke wasn't there. Second, you can drop the "you can't have the antecedent in a prepositional phrase" garbage. My point was that "you can't have the SUBJECT OF THE SENTENCE in a prepositional phrase." The "antecedent" stuff was simply because we were looking at an English translation of the Hebrew, and it's the HEBREW that counts!

In any case context and the discerning of the concepts and overall lesson take precedence over nuances of grammar that nobody but English teachers really care about or use. If it's not plain enough for everyone to understand then it's probably not accurate or revealing.

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Big deal. What good is it to hear anything, whether it's "farfetched" or not, if you're not going to consider it or learn from it? Good deduction from facts is as good as any evidence one might want! It's certainly as good as a "smoking gun" in the courtroom! If one can say, "A AND B --> C," and "~D --> ~C OR ~A," then if one can show A and B are true, one can first say that "A AND C --> D," and then one can say D is true! Simple logic!

I agree. However, truth is a funny thing. One can stand firmly on a truth that is only truth because it has not been proven to be untrue. That's not the criteria for fact or truth. Truth is the mouth of two or three witnesses or the unique case of Jesus himself who was able to testify of the truth of His person and role, of Himself. So unless a premise, or several, can be held up to the light and scrutinized and determined to be fact with no holes then it's not truth. 

Can't proven unicorns do not exist. therefore they do exist. FALSE

And that is what I'm seeing here.

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Now, just what do you think Yeshua` was doing when He was presenting Himself to the children of Israel as their Messiah? Do you even KNOW what "Messiah" truly means? Take that truth, if you know it, to the nth degree! He was OFFERING THEM THE KINGDOM!

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within your grasp): repent ye, and believe the gospel."

Matthew 4:23-25 (KJV)

23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. 25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

THINK about it! He wasn't offering them "the Church," y'know! He also wasn't telling them about His "death, burial, and resurrection," either! John was His herald. When He lost His herald, He had to do His own heralding, and that's what keerussoon (translated "preaching") means, "heralding (like a town cryer)." And, what is the gospel or good news about the Kingdom of God?

Isaiah 52:7 (KJV)

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

THAT'S the "gospel of the Kingdom!"

THAT'S what Yeshua` heralded! And, the Messiah of God - the Anointed of God - is the King that God appoints to give a face to the fact that He is reigning in their Kingdom!

I'm not disputing the facts as presented. That all seems pretty straightforward and accurate. It's the conclusions you present regarding timelines and space time moments. As before 'after' is 'after' and there just isn't any evidence as to when that 'after' may have occurred in relation to Daniel's words. It could be 3.5 years later and you present arguments that lead to your conclusion. But there are holes logically as 'after' is also 'before' and immediately so. In that case then at the point of transition from 69 to 70 there is an infinite gap. It can be reasoned that when counting you never reach the next number as the fraction can always be halved. Is that sense there is infinite time between 69 and 70. You know there is a gap of centuries as you anticipate the the last half of the week is still to come. 

Why must that gap begin 3.5 years into a week where from Daniel the Messiah was cut off, or gone, or dead and was not even in the 70th?

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

While I grant you the fact that "immediately" can be relative, when we're talking about "Sevens of years," a few days is "immediately." Yeshua` came to Jerusalem in His "triumphal entry" in Matthew 21. Yeshua` pronounced them "desolate" in Matthew 23:38; then, He gave the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24. By Matthew 27, He was crucified. That IS a matter of days.

Yes. You are so convinced but there has to be a link between the desolate you claim in Matt 23 to the prophecy of Daniel 9. Just because a word appears does not make it a direct link, we need context and concepts. In Matt 23 Jesus was not speaking to the A of D, or the Temple, or the cessation of liturgy. Jesus was telling them He is the Kingdom of God and He and it are standing right in front of them yet in all the witnesses sent to them they preferred religion and rejected Truth. That rejection of the physical presence of the Creator is what left them desolate and is not comparable to Daniel 9 as this rejection was ages old and continuing, even in the presence of the one they claimed to love and worship.

The Daniel 9 A of D and it's associated elements is a coming event near to the time of Christ's return preceding GT. 

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

It's not truly necessary for you to agree with truth for it to be truth.

True. But points of debate and definitions must be ubiquitous or nothing is achieved. If it was established that the debate commenced under the premise of major and minor points as you laid out and that those were either established truth or just a format, then fine. But it wasn't, it isn't and I don't agree. I'm not disputing fact or logic, I'm disputing the approach.  

[Retrobyter]

18 hours ago, Spock said:

Joe,

you still didn’t answer my very simple question....in fact no one has.....Charlie, retrobyter, none of the its all about Jesus guys .....have offered any answer to what the 7 year covenant means.  And Daniel is very very clear....it was a covenant for one week....seven years.......  Well, I take that back.....Charlie, to his credit did answer it when he said, “I got nothing!”  

I expected one of the other guys not named Charlie to at least try Some magic.....like maybe go into the Hebrew and pull out some rabbit out your hat to at least have some explanation. You do realize no answer means GAME OVER.....time to trash this agenda and go find the truth. 
 

So, one last time....what does Daniel mean when he says, “he will confirm a covenant with the many FOR ONE WEEK.”? 
 

Who confirmed a covenant for one week? This  means......

Shalom, Spock.

I thought I did answer that, but apparently not well enough for you, yet.

Yeshua` ("Jesus") confirmed (strengthened; established) the covenant with many for one Seven. He didn't MAKE the covenant; He just strengthened it. Since the gospel of the Messiah (gospel of Christ) is seen in the early chapters of the ... well ... the "Gospels," (and since it is plainly stated so), the gospel of the Messiah is the good news about the Kingdom of God as known and understood by the Jewish population of Yeshua`s time:

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching (Greek: keerussoon = "heralding" like a town cryer) the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within your grasp): repent ye, and believe the gospel."

Isaiah 52:7 (KJV)

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, "Thy God reigneth!"

THAT'S the good news! THAT'S the gospel of the kingdom! When God the Father reigns over the entire earth from Jerusalem (the NEW Jerusalem, in particular) and everyone is subject to Him, that will be the most wonderful, spectacular "win" in all of human history! Everyone will experience His joy and there will be no more death!

However, even before this "eternal state," the Messiah Yeshua` shall begin His reign a thousand years earlier. His mission is to subdue all of His enemies. Ideally, His enemies will submit to His rulership peacefully, but there will be those who resist. He also is the One to whom all judgment is given by His Father. So, if He so chooses, He has God's support to destroy His enemies, if it comes down to it. And, this He will do until the whole earth is His to reign. During that time, peace and joy and contentment will exist within His Kingdom as it grows throughout the Millennium.

Since Yeshua` always ran everything past His Father first and always did what His Father wanted during His First Advent, there's no reason to think He shall do otherwise during His Second Advent. Thus, it will really be God the Father ruling over His Kingdom THROUGH His Messiah Yeshua`, much as He did often through His messiah David!

Yeshua` offered this Kingdom to His tribe, Yhudah or "Judah." He WAS to be the King of the Jews, as announced by the Magi! THAT'S what the seven years of the 70th Seven were to be, just as His ancestor King David did! Thus, the "covenant" that He strengthened was the DAVIDIC Covenant, and GOD HIMSELF verified and authenticated this Covenant in His words to Yeshua` when Yeshua` submitted to being baptized: "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased!"

The Messiah Yeshua` DID "strengthen this Covenant with many," but not all. First, He was announcing His messiahship to His tribe, the Jews! Afterward, He would extend that Kingdom to the rest of Israel, and He would have had them returned to Him ... IF the Jews had accepted Him. His offer of the Kingdom to the Jews was, therefore, a LEGITIMATE OFFER, not just a "red herring."

For much more on this Kingdom offer, read J. Dwight Pentecost's book "Things To Come."

[Charlie744]

Retrobyter, if I read / understood your comments, you believe the “covenant” in 9:27 refers to the Davidic covenant?

Please note below the comments made re:Jeremiah 31:31 to 34.

This New Covenant arises from the Crucifixion ... After reading would you mind sharing your thoughts? 

Thanks, Charlie 

 

a. The days are coming, says the LORD: What Jeremiah prophesied as God’s faithful messenger was not yet present in his day.

b. I will make a new covenant: God announced that at a time future to Jeremiah’s day Hewould make a new covenant. This new covenant would first be with Israel, but it would be not according to the covenantthat God made with Israel in the Sinai desert.

i. Throughout the Bible, God reveals His plan of redemption through a series of covenants. After the extended story of the fall and ruin of humanity in Genesis 1-11, the story of the covenants begins.

· The Abrahamic Covenant promised to Abraham and His covenant descendants a land, a nation, and a blessingto extend to all nations (Genesis 12:1-3).

· The Mosaic or Sinai Covenant gave Israel the law, the sacrifices, and the choice of blessing or curse (Exodus 19).

· The Davidic Covenant that promised an everlasting dynasty, a perfect ruler, and the Promised Messiah (2 Samuel 7).

· God’s plan of redemption through the covenants is completed and perfected in the New Covenant. Over the span of Old Testament passages that announce the new covenant (especially Ezekiel 11:16-20, 36:16-28, and 37:21-28), we see the promises of gathered Israel, of cleansing and spiritual transformation, and the reign of the Messiah.

ii. “The promise relates to a ‘new covenant’ and is a prediction of a radical change in God’s economy (i.e., his dealing with humanity).” (Feinberg)

iii. Jesus specifically instituted this new covenant by His death on the cross, and He specifically instituted the recognition and remembrance of it with the bread and cup of communion (Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20). It was future to Jeremiah’s day, but it was put into effect by Jesus and specifically by His work of atoning sacrifice at the cross.

iv. The writer to the Hebrews quotes this passage and develops the theme of the new covenant, especially in contrast to the old (Hebrews 8:8, 8:13, 9:15, and 12:14).

c. My covenant which they broke: A new covenant was promised and needed because Israel did not and could not keep the covenant God made with them at Sinai. That covenant was not designed to be enough; it was preparation for the new covenant to come.

i. “The old covenant had taken a new lease of life in Jeremiah’s early days, when the lost ‘book of the covenant’ was found and read and reaffirmed, to become the blueprint of Josiah’s continuing reformation. Yet everything that we have read in Jeremiah confirms that ‘the law made nothing perfect’, for the response was skin-deep, and died with the death of Joshua.” (Kidner)

d. I will put My law into their minds, and write it on their hearts: The new covenant brings inner transformation. The law of God was no longer only external; God would change the minds and hearts of those connected to Him by the new covenant.

i. The new covenant does not do away with or renounce the law. It makes the law closer and moreimportant by setting it in the mind and heart, instead of on a stone tablet or page. “It would no longer be like the external one made with the fathers, but spiritual and internal, and based on an intimate knowledge of Jehovah.” (Morgan)

[Spock]

45 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Spock.

I thought I did answer that, but apparently not well enough for you, yet.

Yeshua` ("Jesus") confirmed (strengthened; established) the covenant with many for one Seven. He didn't MAKE the covenant; He just strengthened it. Since the gospel of the Messiah (gospel of Christ) is seen in the early chapters of the ... well ... the "Gospels," (and since it is plainly stated so), the gospel of the Messiah is the good news about the Kingdom of God as known and understood by the Jewish population of Yeshua`s time:

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching (Greek: keerussoon = "heralding" like a town cryer) the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within your grasp): repent ye, and believe the gospel."

Isaiah 52:7 (KJV)

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, "Thy God reigneth!"

THAT'S the good news! THAT'S the gospel of the kingdom! When God the Father reigns over the entire earth from Jerusalem (the NEW Jerusalem, in particular) and everyone is subject to Him, that will be the most wonderful, spectacular "win" in all of human history! Everyone will experience His joy and there will be no more death!

However, even before this "eternal state," the Messiah Yeshua` shall begin His reign a thousand years earlier. His mission is to subdue all of His enemies. Ideally, His enemies will submit to His rulership peacefully, but there will be those who resist. He also is the One to whom all judgment is given by His Father. So, if He so chooses, He has God's support to destroy His enemies, if it comes down to it. And, this He will do until the whole earth is His to reign. During that time, peace and joy and contentment will exist within His Kingdom as it grows throughout the Millennium.

Since Yeshua` always ran everything past His Father first and always did what His Father wanted during His First Advent, there's no reason to think He shall do otherwise during His Second Advent. Thus, it will really be God the Father ruling over His Kingdom THROUGH His Messiah Yeshua`, much as He did often through His messiah David!

Yeshua` offered this Kingdom to His tribe, Yhudah or "Judah." He WAS to be the King of the Jews, as announced by the Magi! THAT'S what the seven years of the 70th Seven were to be, just as His ancestor King David did! Thus, the "covenant" that He strengthened was the DAVIDIC Covenant, and GOD HIMSELF verified and authenticated this Covenant in His words to Yeshua` when Yeshua` submitted to being baptized: "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased!"

The Messiah Yeshua` DID "strengthen this Covenant with many," but not all. First, He was announcing His messiahship to His tribe, the Jews! Afterward, He would extend that Kingdom to the rest of Israel, and He would have had them returned to Him ... IF the Jews had accepted Him. His offer of the Kingdom to the Jews was, therefore, a LEGITIMATE OFFER, not just a "red herring."

For much more on this Kingdom offer, read J. Dwight Pentecost's book "Things To Come."

Thanks Roy.....I read and reread this post specifically looking for a 7 year covenant which I believe is necessary because the word of god says “he confirms a covenant for one week.”  
 

im not trying to be obtuse here, just looking for Gods word to be fulfilled that satisfies myself. I still didn’t see any 7 year covenant Jesus made by you or anyone. The new covenant is an eternal one, not limited to 7 years.  But let me close by saying this....if you, Charlie, joe believe the new covenant is what is meant by Daniel 9:27, then that is fine by me....I’m not trying to win you to “my side.”  It’s not necessary for that to be. However, without a specific 7 year covenant being confirmed, I won’t budge here. I will continue to believe the AC will rise up, probably after the rapture and Gog War to promote and pass a bill in the UN that allows for Jews in Israel to resume their Mosaic Law practices (confirming that covenant).  Thus, a temple and sacrifices will then be allowed to be rebuilt. And this will allow for the man of sin to become the Beast after his fatal wound is healed and do his abomination of desolation thingy much like Antiochus did in 168 BC (type of Beast).  This then, In my opinion, fulfills God’s prophetic word to the T pursuant to Daniel 9:27.  If I am wrong in my understanding so be it, but I’m doing my best too. 
 

shalom,

spock