Who is Resurrected, and When?

[Montana Marv]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

The thoughts I have concern identity of this resurrected group, from within the language of the scriptures, and the apparent contradiction of the dogma of a general resurrection of all believers from the Ascension to the 2nd Advent.

It's difficult for me to continue in that dogma when I see the resurrected group described as: having come out from within GT, as standing about a sea of glass having conquered the beast and his image, and being martyred for their testimony neither taking the mark nor worshipping the image of the beast.

And by contrast we don't see any other large group, by any other description, resurrected pre-millennium, only post millennium.

And yes, all men are resurrected; at the proper time. The full general resurrection is assured whether now, later, 1000, or 10,000 years from now. 

Only those of Israel.  Daniel go your way. At the end of days you will be resurrected to receive your inheritance which is the Land promised to Abraham, Issac and Jacob. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[Revelation Man]

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

Well...I don't see that. I see there 'will be tribulation' on this earth. That isn't the same as 'megas thlipsis'.

Again, we humans conflate things. 

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

The context is the key; 'megas thlipsis occurs only after the A of D at the midpoint. No one should conflate general 'thlipsis' with 'megas thlipsis'.

Reulation 7:14 And 2532 I said 2046 z5758 vnto him, 846 Sir, 2962 thou 4771 knowest. 1492 z5758 And 2532 he said 2036 z5627 to me, 3427 These 3778 are x1526 they y1526 z5748 which came 2064 z5740 out of 1537 great 3173 tribulation, 2347 and 2532 haue washed 4150 z5656 their y846 x848 robes, 4749 and 2532 made y3021 z0 them y4749 y846 white 3021 z5656 x848 in 1722 the x3588 blood 129 of the x3588 Lambe. 721

 #3173 μέγας megas {meg'-as} (Great)

 [including the prolonged forms, feminine megale, plural megaloi,
    etc., cf also G3176, G3187]; TDNT - 4:529,573; adj
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) great
    1a) of the external form or sensible appearance of things (or
        of persons)
        1a1) in particular, of space and its dimensions, as respects
             1a1a) mass and weight: great
             1a1b) compass and extent: large, spacious
             1a1c) measure and height: long
             1a1d) stature and age: great, old
    1b) of number and quantity: numerous, large, abundant
    1c) of age: the elder
    1d) used of intensity and its degrees: with great effort, of
        the affections and emotions of the mind, of natural events
        powerfully affecting the senses: violent, mighty, strong
 2) predicated of rank, as belonging to

--------------------------------------------------

 #2347 θλῖψις thlipsis {thlip'-sis} (Tribulation)

 from G2346; TDNT - 3:139,334; n f
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

 1) a pressing, pressing together, pressure
 2) metaph. oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, straits
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G2346; pressure (literally or figuratively):—afflicted, (-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)
-------------------------------------------------

As the Greek Study says, it can be a measurement of both LENGTH and INTENSISTY OF DEGREES !! We demand it can only be the intensity of degrees version. When that does not fit the description !! They came of of the 2000 year Church Age Period via a Pre Trib Rapture, we now this because I understand or, PLUS because those Martyrs under the Altar are SPECIFICALLY TOLD they must wait until all of their brothers have been killed in LIKE MANNER as they were (Martyrs) and in Rev; 20:4 we see that those who refused the Mark of the Beast are not raised and Judged until AFTER the 2nd Coming. 

And, it specifically only says GREAT TRIBULATION, not the  Great Tribulation as per the original Greek Text. Thus there is no "Article" (THE) pointing to one specific event as there is with the 2 Thess.  2:1-3 DEPARTURE. And as I stated, the context pains just the opposite picture, those Martyrs from the 70th week can not be seen in Heaven, they are not even judged util after the 70th week. It is clearly the Pre Trib Raptured Church which came our of MUCH TRIBULATION. Did we not? Did millions of our brothers not die to put forth the Gospel? Of course they did, of course we still are under tribulation. 

Nothing else fits brother. 

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Again, we humans conflate things. 

Reulation 7:14 And 2532 I said 2046 z5758 vnto him, 846 Sir, 2962 thou 4771 knowest. 1492 z5758 And 2532 he said 2036 z5627 to me, 3427 These 3778 are x1526 they y1526 z5748 which came 2064 z5740 out of 1537 great 3173 tribulation, 2347 and 2532 haue washed 4150 z5656 their y846 x848 robes, 4749 and 2532 made y3021 z0 them y4749 y846 white 3021 z5656 x848 in 1722 the x3588 blood 129 of the x3588 Lambe. 721

 #3173 μέγας megas {meg'-as} (Great)

 [including the prolonged forms, feminine megale, plural megaloi,
    etc., cf also G3176, G3187]; TDNT - 4:529,573; adj
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) great
    1a) of the external form or sensible appearance of things (or
        of persons)
        1a1) in particular, of space and its dimensions, as respects
             1a1a) mass and weight: great
             1a1b) compass and extent: large, spacious
             1a1c) measure and height: long
             1a1d) stature and age: great, old
    1b) of number and quantity: numerous, large, abundant
    1c) of age: the elder
    1d) used of intensity and its degrees: with great effort, of
        the affections and emotions of the mind, of natural events
        powerfully affecting the senses: violent, mighty, strong
 2) predicated of rank, as belonging to

--------------------------------------------------

 #2347 θλῖψις thlipsis {thlip'-sis} (Tribulation)

 from G2346; TDNT - 3:139,334; n f
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

 1) a pressing, pressing together, pressure
 2) metaph. oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, straits
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G2346; pressure (literally or figuratively):—afflicted, (-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)
-------------------------------------------------

As the Greek Study says, it can be a measurement of both LENGTH and INTENSISTY OF DEGREES !! We demand it can only be the intensity of degrees version. When that does not fit the description !! They came of of the 2000 year Church Age Period via a Pre Trib Rapture, we now this because I understand or, PLUS because those Martyrs under the Altar are SPECIFICALLY TOLD they must wait until all of their brothers have been killed in LIKE MANNER as they were (Martyrs) and in Rev; 20:4 we see that those who refused the Mark of the Beast are not raised and Judged until AFTER the 2nd Coming. 

And, it specifically only says GREAT TRIBULATION, not the  Great Tribulation as per the original Greek Text. Thus there is no "Article" (THE) pointing to one specific event as there is with the 2 Thess.  2:1-3 DEPARTURE. And as I stated, the context pains just the opposite picture, those Martyrs from the 70th week can not be seen in Heaven, they are not even judged util after the 70th week. It is clearly the Pre Trib Raptured Church which came our of MUCH TRIBULATION. Did we not? Did millions of our brothers not die to put forth the Gospel? Of course they did, of course we still are under tribulation. 

Nothing else fits brother. 

If that were all, perhaps. But it isn't

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,

’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath.

 21For at that time there will be great tribulation,

unmatched from the beginning of the world until now,

and never to be seen again. 

22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

This GT only begins after the A of D

People in Judea are told to flee and not even grab a coat.

This GT has never been seen before and never will be again.

It's so intense and deadly that it must be stopped or everyone is dead.

So there is no way this is 2000 years long: it only occurs after the A of D, it involves directly the people in Judea, it has never been seen previous to this A of D in Matt 24:15, it's so deadly everyone is in danger of being killed off. And it's ended by the coming of Jesus, which is only after some A of D that has yet to occur, the last one was in 167 BC.

So anyone in heaven about the throne came from this GT after an A of D, faced the beast, got the victory, and did not take the mark or worship the beast and his image, and was beheaded for their testimony of God and Jesus.

 

So no. It's not a 'church age' in length. 

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Only those of Israel.  Daniel go your way. At the end of days you will be resurrected to receive your inheritance which is the Land promised to Abraham, Issac and Jacob. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

That's those in Christ. It's not Jews. A common misconception. "If you are in Christ you are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise." The people of Daniel are the seed of Abraham, those in Christ, the heirs of the promise. 

[Diaste]

20 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

We see the rapture in Rev. 6:12-17. This portion of scripture is cross-referenced in Matt. 24:29-31. 

But it seems the chronology of the ending parts of Rev. 6 and the whole of Rev. 7 is not right. 

The rapture happens in Rev. 6:12-17, the 144,000 israelites are sealed in 7:1-8, and there is the great multitude (who were raptured in Chapter 6) in Rev. 7:9-17.

Now some people might say "Shouldn't the great multitude come after the rapture event? And not after sealing of the 144000?

The chronology is arranged in the bible the way it is because of 2 reasons -

1. The sealing of the 144000 comes after the rapture event because it keeps in line with God's overriding emotion (towards those on earth; God still loves those left behind though but their salvation must come at a very great price - refusing the MOTB and refusing to worship the beast and risk being killed) at this point in time - Wrath; And of course to those who were raptured and the 144000 - Love (1 Thess. 5:9). God keeps the 144000 in the world to show those left behind what they would have enjoyed if the had chosen him. I know the 144000 are kept in the world to evangelize but also to show the world what they are missing... I mean the world already has the bible and happenings. Also I believe the 144000 will know they are sealed. Just as the Holy Spirit bears witness our spirits that we are children of God, they will have a kind of witness.

 Rev. 7:2-4 (NKJV) - 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed...

2. The silence in heaven is added to by the supposed more silence by heaven (from the perspective of those on the earth) while the great multitude are worshipping. Prompted by this prolonged silence, the world MIGHT say what happened was an alien abduction not the rapture (Rev. 7:9-17 - 8:1)

We only see the 144,000 sealed then standing with Jesus on Mt. Zion. It's never said they evangelize. That's adding what isn't there, gap filling. It's a spillover from the great commission but doesn't apply to Rev 7 and 14. 

"And no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

 4These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes.

They have been redeemed from among men

as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 

5And no lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless."

They are firstfruits. This means the first of the harvest, before the general harvest, but still at the time of the harvest. They aren't left in the field, they are the very first to be gathered. 

 

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, Uriah said:

 

But you left out the fact that Jesus said the sheep and goats are judged, "when the Son of man comes".

Also, your martyr/trib saints resurrections bans Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Apostle John and all who hold to the blessed Hope! Talk about contradictions, wow. 

Rev 11-13 are still describing at the beginning of the 1K yr period. As I have said many times, vv. 7-10 is a parenthetic passage. The verses after it return to the beginning of the 1K yr period again.

Heb 11:40 has a context DIRECTLY to the resurrection starting at v. 35. Please read.

This is the sort of thing I'm asking about. It's not me, scripture describes the group as having come out of GT, faced the beast and got the victory. Except for the 144,000 it's the only large group we see and the description is consistent in Rev 7, 15 and 20. 

And I didn't leave anything out, just didn't address it.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

We can't assume this to be the initial act immediately upon the arrival of Jesus. It could be days later, months, years. Or it could be the first act. From the text we can't tell exactly when.

11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood,c and His name is The Word of God.

14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.d He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:

This is His arrival. I don't assume all this happens at the same time, there's an order. It will happen in the correct order and time as God sees fit.

So the sheep and goats will happen, just not when we think but when the time is right in God's purpose.

Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.

And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. 15And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

This looks to me like the sheep and goats and it's after the 1000 years.

[Uriah]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

This looks to me like the sheep and goats and it's after the 1000 years.

At the sheep and goat scenario people are sent to enter the Joy of the Lord, to enter the place prepared for them.

But the scenario you propose denies this. Not only will it bring about the ban of those previously listed and more, but this contradicts what Jesus said in John 14:2 & 3- 

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This is no lie. No need to juggle ad hoc disasters. 

To avoid these contradictions one only need to read Rev 20:7-10 (maybe even 5-10) as being in parentheses, showing the narrative continuing in v. 11 pertaining to the BEGINNING of the 1K yrs.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Uriah
Concluding sentence

[Revelation Man]

15 hours ago, Diaste said:

If that were all, perhaps. But it isn't

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,

’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath.

 21For at that time there will be great tribulation,

unmatched from the beginning of the world until now,

and never to be seen again. 

22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

This GT only begins after the A of D

Yes THAT Great Tribulation, is not the great tribulation the Church comes out of, we come of of the 2000 year church age tribulation, not the 70th week tribulation. The time being CUT SHORT is Jesus foretelling God's PLAN of 1260 days in which He allows the Beast to rule, Jesus (Man in Linen in Dan. 12) told us in Dan. 12:7 it would only be a 1260 day period of time until ALL THESE WONDRS END. So, nothing changes, the 70th week lasts 7 years, the 3.5 years of God's Wrath lasts 3.5 years and the Anti-Christ is allowed to rule over Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region for 1260 days the whole "CUT SHORT" is referring to when they KILL this thug A.C., after his 1260 days of ruling Jesus KILLS HIM. That is what Jesus meant by cutting this great tribulation short, he STOPS this Beasts rule after 1260 days by killing him.

15 hours ago, Diaste said:

This GT only begins after the A of D

 

Yes, but not for the Church which is by that time in Heaven. The Church went through Great Tribulation for 2000 some odd years then get Raptured to be with the Lord. Millions of our brothers have indeed died for Jesus' namesake. As Stephen and all the Disciples (save John) did.

15 hours ago, Diaste said:

People in Judea are told to flee and not even grab a coat.

 

Jews who repent AFTER the Rapture (the 144,000 which = 3-5 million Jews who flee Judea)

15 hours ago, Diaste said:

This GT has never been seen before and never will be again.

 

This is the Greatest Ever Troubles. Those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, both can be and are true. No one from the 70th week makes the wedding, the DOORS ARE SHUT. There is weeping and gnashing of teeth because ALL THOSE LEFT will go through the 70th week and the 3.5 years. God's Wrath will take out some who become Christians, 1/3 of the world will burn, I think the New World is totally wiped out. So, just like with tornadoes/hurricanes etc. some Christians will die. 

15 hours ago, Diaste said:

So there is no way this is 2000 years long: it only occurs after the A of D, it involves directly the people in Judea, it has never been seen previous to this A of D in Matt 24:15, it's so deadly everyone is in danger of being killed off. And it's ended by the coming of Jesus, which is only after some A of D that has yet to occur, the last one was in 167 BC.

So anyone in heaven about the throne came from this GT after an A of D, faced the beast, got the victory, and did not take the mark or worship the beast and his image, and was beheaded for their testimony of God and Jesus.

 

So no. It's not a 'church age' in length. 

Those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 come out of the Church Age GREAT TRIBULATION, its a fact. God can not be told how He can use the word Great. (MEGA). All of these preconceived ideas is why people miss what God is saying. No one is going to Heaven after the 70th week starts, its obvious, in the 5th Seal they are told they MUST WAIT. In Revelation 20:4 we see those who refused the Mark of the Beast are only raised and judged AFTER the 2nd Coming, so that means those seen in Rev. 7 are the Pre Trib Raptured Church. And can be nothing else.

So, the millions of brothers killed during the Church Age Tribulation is not GREAT TRIBULATION? Of course it is.

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Revelation Man

[DeighAnn]

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

And, it specifically only says GREAT TRIBULATION, not the  Great Tribulation as per the original Greek Text. Thus there is no "Article" (THE) pointing to one specific event as there is with the 2 Thess.  2:1-3 DEPARTURE. And as I stated, the context pains just the opposite picture, those Martyrs from the 70th week can not be seen in Heaven, they are not even judged util after the 70th week. It is clearly the Pre Trib Raptured Church which came our of MUCH TRIBULATION. Did we not? Did millions of our brothers not die to put forth the Gospel? Of course they did, of course we still are under tribulation. 

Couldn't be the NEVER DIE having died and risen with Him while living and so go to the place prepared to be where He is like he told Peter?  Could be all those who 'FOLLOW AFTER'?   ALL that stuff is written.  No guessing of any kind.  Just read and believe exactly as the words come.  



So our BROTHERS suffered so WE don't have to?  HOW IS THAT JUST?  Sounds like something a man would say.  GOD says we are 

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

where does it say EXCEPT FOR THE FINAL GENERATION, they are NOT TO BE ACCOUNTED AS SHEEP FOR THE SLAUGHTER?

 

Is it you contention that EXCEPT FOR the pre trib church,  ALL means ALL generations,  EXCEPT FOR that ONE? That GOD IS going to treat one generation differently than all others?  Could there be a TRIBULATION worse than death?  


2Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

HOW will they be counted worthy for the kingdom IF WE DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE PATIENCE AND FAITH IN ALL PERSECUTIONS?  HOW CAN WE KNOW IF THEY ARE TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM BEFORE THEY FALL UPON THEM?  WHERE DOES IT SAY TRIBULATION IS OK BUT GREAT TRIBULATION ISN'T?  

2Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

HOW CAN GOD RECOMPENSE IF NOT TROUBLED?  

2Thessalonians 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

WHAT DAY IS THIS SPEAKING OF?

2Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

ISN'T THIS THE DAY OF VENGEANCE?  THE 2ND ADVENT?

2Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


YES IT IS!!!!!

2Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

SO WE KNOW WHAT DAY FOR SURE IS BEING SPOKEN OF HERE

2Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

HOW CAN THERE BE A WORK OF FAITH WITH POWER IF THE CHURCH ISN'T HERE TO DO A WORK OF FAITH WITH POWER?  AND SINCE 'THOSE LEFT BEHIND' WILL HAVE 'SEEN' THEY CAN NO LONGER COME IN HOPE NOR FAITH.  HOW IS THAT TO BE RECONCILED?  

2Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2Thessalonians 1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

WHAT HAS BEEN SAID THAT MAKES ANYONE BELIEVE THAT GOD HAS LEFT SPEAKING ON THE DAY OF VENGEANCE HERE?  Was there a SUBJECT CHANGE THAT I MISSED?   Is my Bible missing verses? OR are we still reading about the day of vengeance?  

WHERE IS ANY DEPARTURE OF ANY SORT MENTIONED HERE?  


JUST THE COMING OF JESUS AND THE GATHERING TO HIM. 

WHO SAID THERE WAS A DEPARTURE?  Again, WHERE IS A DEPARTURE WRITTEN OF?  IT CERTAINLY ISN'T HERE.  And this is to clear up letter one so we know it isn't there because HE is returning with the SAINTS there also.  


2Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

THAT IS WHAT PAUL TAUGHT.  NOT TILL AFTER SATAN WILL THE LORD BE RETURNING. 

NO WONDER CHRIST SAID DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN... IF THEY SAY HERE OR THERE don't believe them, it will be a lie.

 

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Could you direct me to where it is written that when SATAN is cast to the earth that NO ONE ELSE WILL BE NEEDING TO BELIEVE THOUGH OUR WORD?


Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
 

Could you direct me to where it is written that when Satan is cast to the earth that HOPE WILL NO LONGER BE AVAILABLE to those on earth?  


 

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Could you please direct me to the place that tells us when Satan is cast to the earth that GODS WORD will no longer be going to the ends of the earth?  

Could you please show me where it is written that there will be no coming to faith by hearing the words of God when Satan arrives?


Does the pre trib rapture divide what Christ brought together and made one,  so some can leave while others are punished?

During the trib there is no more HEARING the words of God, nor coming in faith, nor hope but is instead BY WHAT THEY SEE HAPPENING, IT IS BACK TO GOD GIVING A SIGN?   WASN'T IT AN EVIL GENERATION THAT SEEKED A SIGN?

When Satan is cast to the earth WHAT PART OF THESE VERSES STILL ARE TO BE CONSIDERED TRUTH?  Does the church go back to being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel?   are they no longer fellowcitizens with the saints?  
 

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

 

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Couldn't be the NEVER DIE having died and risen with Him while living and so go to the place prepared to be where He is like he told Peter?  Could be all those who 'FOLLOW AFTER'?   ALL that stuff is written.  No guessing of any kind.  Just read and believe exactly as the words come.  

I don't even understand what this is even saying, try rebooting it. 

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

So our BROTHERS suffered so WE don't have to?  HOW IS THAT JUST?  Sounds like something a man would say.  GOD says we are 

It would be JUSTICE that NO MAN should have to suffer for following the TRUE God. So, wat is the difference? Well, in order to get the Gospel to the WHOLE WORLD the Church had to be willing to die for its beliefs. Once the Gospel has been carried unto the WHOLE WORLD(Mission Accomplished/Matt. 24:14) why would God need to leave us here JUST TO DIE, when the mission is completed? The whole JUST CONCEPT is off, it not just to ever have to suffer and die, thus once the mission is complete a just God PULLS US OUT, the 70th week starts, and as we see in Rev. 14:6 an Angel then PROCLAIMS the Gospel to the whole world from that point on.

Why wasn't Noah just taken to heaven? Jesus had to be born. 

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Is it you contention that EXCEPT FOR the pre trib church,  ALL means ALL generations,  EXCEPT FOR that ONE? That GOD IS going to treat one generation differently than all others?  Could there be a TRIBULATION worse than death?  

One has to be able to understand the bible IN FULL. Not in part in order to understand these concepts. So, in essence, everything you argue below that point, with SCRIPTURES was defeated because you failed to grasp once our mission is complete, we need not SUFFER any more. God dd not allow us to suffer because He loved it, He allowed us to suffer to overcome Wickedness and thus bring the Gospel unto the whole world. 

You can paste scriptures well sister. However interpreting them together in a cohesive understanding is much more important. God Bless.