Eternal Salvation – From the Perspective of Life

[DeighAnn]

On 8/17/2023 at 7:41 AM, Vine Abider said:

Departing from the faith does not mean that they cease to be God's children with His life in them - they are just misbehaving children who need correction.

Are you saying that is how/why there will be a resurrection

of BOTH

 JUST - who have their name in book of life but HAVE A GREAT FALL AND go to hell YET WON'T perish in the LOF

and

the UNJUST spiritually DEAD and gone to hell because they never got their name in the book of life before they died the first death, but will have a chance to before the GWTJ?

(when Christ returns with THE SAINTS/NEVER DIE/HOLY ANGELS who FOLLOWED HIM having risen/resurrected/ascended at common death/Adam sin death of the body/first death/death of the natural flesh)


in keeping with the truth of

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," Hebrews 10:26 KJV

FOR without being under 'the Lamb slain' you no longer are under that grace - the New Covenant,

and have become just like those who were under the law and had to pay the penalty, so descended went to hell...


Makes it REALLY important to stay in His ways and not lose THE GIFT OF SALVATION. 


 

12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Questions for you

So, the 'destruction' mentioned here is not THE 2ND DEATH of both body and soul

but just 1st death the common death aka the death of the NOT SAVED and/or saved but not from going to hell?. 




So when both the just and unjust dead rise up for the Lords Day do 'the just' already have their names in the book but are still just paying the price for 'losing the sacrifice', and  in losing the sacrifice, did their name also get erased from the book?  (I realize neither of them,  just or unjust will rise up IMMORTAL  just imperishable having risen from the corruption of hell) 



 

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Would you say that is false doctrines and things not written?
 

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


Is that in reference to after the GWTJ or is that to the first death in hell?


 

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Would you agree that means people can be SAVED and will EVENTUALLY receive their immortality, but TO ASCEND at the first death and be a part of the 1st resurrection

means you have to remain in GODS WILL, can't have Hebrews 10:26ed?

 

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

resurrection of both the just....this speaking to the just because they will not perish in the LOF, but will to hell.....????

 

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:


Would you agree, this coming in the beginning of the ministry of Jesus that THIS IS THE FOUNDATION LAID that we are to build upon?  



 

 

[TheBlade]

Division, doubt, worry, fear 2nd guessing has never once for me come from the Father only believers and the enemy. In one way or another "doubt" it tied to what they say. And then taking some of those stumbling scriptures ( I mean the weak in the faith that do not understand those scriptures and it causes them to have great fear and question their faith.). They do not look into search pray seek to whom He was really talking to. There are three scriptures given within this thread that fall in to this. 

Yeshua you are a friend of sinners. Yeshua you are the one the meek call Jesus. 

Here were talking about Salvation yet do all here believe in the same Yeshua/Jesus Christ? Nope. So many allow silly doctrines to pull at their faith and love mercy grace forgiveness shown them since they have known Christ they do not show those to them that have different doctrines. Doctrines that do not touch Yeshua/Jesus Christ coming in the flesh.

So if anyone wonders about salvation read the book of John read Romans 10 9-10. Simple ask Him seek Him. I don't need to say any more for salvation does not come from me. I have faith and I step out of His way...what He starts He will finish. I do not want to get in His way. I put away childish things and I am not here to work out your salvation

[Vine Abider]

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Are you saying that is how/why there will be a resurrection

of BOTH

 JUST - who have their name in book of life but HAVE A GREAT FALL AND go to hell YET WON'T perish in the LOF

and

the UNJUST spiritually DEAD and gone to hell because they never got their name in the book of life before they died the first death, but will have a chance to before the GWTJ?

(when Christ returns with THE SAINTS/NEVER DIE/HOLY ANGELS who FOLLOWED HIM having risen/resurrected/ascended at common death/Adam sin death of the body/first death/death of the natural flesh)


in keeping with the truth of

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," Hebrews 10:26 KJV

FOR without being under 'the Lamb slain' you no longer are under that grace - the New Covenant,

and have become just like those who were under the law and had to pay the penalty, so descended went to hell...


Makes it REALLY important to stay in His ways and not lose THE GIFT OF SALVATION. 


 

12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Questions for you

So, the 'destruction' mentioned here is not THE 2ND DEATH of both body and soul

but just 1st death the common death aka the death of the NOT SAVED and/or saved but not from going to hell?. 




So when both the just and unjust dead rise up for the Lords Day do 'the just' already have their names in the book but are still just paying the price for 'losing the sacrifice', and  in losing the sacrifice, did their name also get erased from the book?  (I realize neither of them,  just or unjust will rise up IMMORTAL  just imperishable having risen from the corruption of hell) 



 

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Would you say that is false doctrines and things not written?
 

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


Is that in reference to after the GWTJ or is that to the first death in hell?


 

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Would you agree that means people can be SAVED and will EVENTUALLY receive their immortality, but TO ASCEND at the first death and be a part of the 1st resurrection

means you have to remain in GODS WILL, can't have Hebrews 10:26ed?

 

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

resurrection of both the just....this speaking to the just because they will not perish in the LOF, but will to hell.....????

 

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:


Would you agree, this coming in the beginning of the ministry of Jesus that THIS IS THE FOUNDATION LAID that we are to build upon?  



 

 

That's a lot to consider! I'm traveling now, but hope to respond more soon. 

One thing I do know is being born again by His life-giving Spirit coming into us makes us God's children, and children cannot be unborn (right?). 

[DeighAnn]

9 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

That's a lot to consider! I'm traveling now, but hope to respond more soon. 

One thing I do know is being born again by His life-giving Spirit coming into us makes us God's children, and children cannot be unborn (right?). 

OK. But since you asked

They aren't unborn, they just LOSE THE GIFT of salvation ' NO MORE SACRIFICE' aka no longer SAVED from paying the penalty of death FOR THEIR SINS.  

Who else would the 'JUST' DEAD be?? 

And How did they get to be 'just' and THEN end up as one of the DEAD in hell, awaiting the return of the Kingdom of Heaven to earth, the coming of the LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS to be resurrected?   

As one of 'the JUST', they should have 'Followed Him' to be where He was.  They SHOULD have risen in glory and power imperishable just like Christ and returned that way...

instead of descending like THE REST OF THE DEAD to pay the penalty of their sins, death.  NOT UNBORN yet 'no longer under the gift of salvation' until they PROVE THEMSELVES with works, just like the rest of the dead will have to do. 

They will be THANKING GOD for the 1000 years/the Lords Day the earth will HAVE when not only the HEAD of the church will be ruling and reigning, but also the whole BODY.   

What a wonderful beautiful perfect plan.  Certainly is going to help with Gods desire that all come to repentance. 

Whatever it takes to accomplish THAT goal,

GOD is going to suffer through...  



 

[phoneman-777]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:40 PM, Michael37 said:

Indeed, but that isn't the problem.

Yep, we can walk away any time we choose.

[phoneman-777]

On 8/17/2023 at 10:09 AM, AdHoc said:

Contemporary Christianity speak much about faith. But when it comes to nailing it down they always revert to works.

Not exactly...Christianity's so fully saturated with "greasy grace/sloppy agape" that the mere mention of the "w" word is enough to make those who think they've cornered the market on "love" and "compassion" and "tolerance" sprout horns, fangs, and claws.

So, why is the OSAS crowd is so hostile toward good works? Not because they're outward evidence of our inward conversion, but because the absence of them is outward evidence of an inward hatred of Jesus (1 John 2:3-4 KJV).

Edited August 19, 2023 by phoneman-777

[Vine Abider]

38 minutes ago, phoneman-777 said:

So, why is the OSAS crowd is so hostile toward good works? Not because they're outward evidence of our inward conversion, but because the absence of them is outward evidence of an inward hatred of Jesus (1 John 2:3-4 KJV).

Don't think this is a good categorization as I believe in eternal salvation (because the eternal Life of Christ has been born in me - it is of God and I cannot be unborn of Him). AND I believe after I became a child of God I need to WALK IN THE WORKS He has prepared for me. 

[phoneman-777]

23 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Don't think this is a good categorization as I believe in eternal salvation (because the eternal Life of Christ has been born in me - it is of God and I cannot be unborn of Him). AND I believe after I became a child of God I need to WALK IN THE WORKS He has prepared for me. 

The question is this:

Do we believe God and Satan share custody of the kids?

Do we "abide in the Vine" continually, or sneak off to swing from the trunk of Satan's holly tree?

[Vine Abider]

4 minutes ago, phoneman-777 said:

The question is this:

Do we believe God and Satan share custody of the kids?

Do we "abide in the Vine" continually, or sneak off to swing from the trunk of Satan's holly tree?

But even if we do swing from the other tree, who we are in Christ (children of God with His life in us) does not change - we're just misbehaving children who need some correction.

[AdHoc]

On 8/18/2023 at 4:38 PM, Rockson said:

Spiritual death means not having one's spirit in any measure in fellowship with God. 

No scripture and no case built.

 

On 8/18/2023 at 4:38 PM, Rockson said:

If you look at the vs 4 you quoted above it states, we were dead, yes really spiritually dead but we were quickened meaning made alive. 

I'm truly shocked. We were quickened WITH Christ. Was Christ spiritually dead?

Thanks for answering the explanation of the lost stewardship. I find your honesty refreshing.