A question of faith

[OneLight]

Strange thing unity is, being in one accord.  The larger the number, the less likely this will happen.  This is all the more reason why Jesus needs to be the head and we follow.  We are all no more then a broken vessel trying to do as we feel led to do, but as Paul put it, we only know in part until we are with Christ.  Jesus knows our weaknesses better than we do.  I believe He is well aware that we will not accomplish what He asked us to accomplished, accepting what we can do in Him.  If "we" could do this, then He would not have to return.

 

Something to chew on ...

[other one]

Strange thing unity is, being in one accord.  The larger the number, the less likely this will happen.  This is all the more reason why Jesus needs to be the head and we follow.  We are all no more then a broken vessel trying to do as we feel led to do, but as Paul put it, we only know in part until we are with Christ.  Jesus knows our weaknesses better than we do.  I believe He is well aware that we will not accomplish what He asked us to accomplished, accepting what we can do in Him.  If "we" could do this, then He would not have to return.

 

Something to chew on ...

like what's going on in the churches today is a good object lesson for that future time when he arrives.

 

I would highly recommend that we all remove the phrase "I told you so" from our vocabulary though.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings to the Body of Christ!

     Blessings & Greetings to the Church,the Radiant Bride of Christ....as we are joined together in the unity of the faith in the knowledge of our Lord & Savior,Christ Jesus.......

    I have no doubt that when we get to heaven we will meet those that were of the Pentecostal,Baptist,Catholic,Methodist,Lutheran & many other denominations......the Lords different houses of prayer & worship make no difference to Him,He is no respecter of persons & each person is either a member of His Body(the One True Church)or they are not according to their belief in Him Who was raised from the dead on the 3rd day!

   We must all remember that the god of this world is at work today and dividing & separating Gods family is a good way to turn one against the other.....the enemy is busy at work within our many denominations but as true followers of Christ it has no effect because we know we have brothers & sisters of many denominations and the little doctrinal,traditional or customary differences will not cause us to not act without like mind or judgement as we walk in spirit & in truth...with Christ as our Head.....

   We are individuals and we also have many different opinions & interpretations of the Scriptures & there we have our denominations......it still makes no difference in the Body of Christ......WHOSOEVER believes in Him & confesses with their mouth is my favorite word in the entire Bible...there are so many "whosoevers" in this world and glory to God....thank You Jesus!

                                                                                                   With love,in Christ-Kwik

[Openly Curious]

Genuine question - I do not want to start an argument, or even debate for its sole sake, but to truly understand:

 

Why are there so many denominations in the Christian faith, when in our faith we should be unified in Christ and not in the teachings/traditions of men, where one group believe they hold more/all truth compared to all the others - knowing that our faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and His Word are the centre that holds us together? 

 

I truly hope I don't open a can of worms here, and if I don't receive any replies I'll understand.  I just really want to know.

 

Hi Zion,  the answer to your question simply is that "not" every christians has come to see and understand this truth it is still hidden and needs to be revealed to them.  Our unity as belivers is in Christ and who he is and not in doctrine.  Doctrine will never bring unity as there will always be different doctrines and beliefs both scripturally and unscripturally and all ways will be that way.  But unity in Christ is what brings us together as one always has and always will. 

 

The scripture Fresno Joe shared hasn't been revealed or made known to every believer as some believe it is having the same doctrine and beliefs that brings unity among believers and it's just not true.  I like all like to give a good defense for the gospel and should.  I think also studying and having sound doctrine and teachings are very crucial and important to christian life as well and we sould endeavor to adhere to them.  But none of us have "all truth" no matter how much "we think we do." we don't and never will until we're with the Lord.  But we all start as babes in Christ learning and have to grow up to adulthood (a place of maturity or perfection) in Christ.  Until then we are childish and will continue to be tossed back and forth by all the different doctrines that are out there according to the scriptures in...

 

Ephesians 4:13-15     

[JohnD]

The one answer to the OP is...

 

People do not place the Bible and rightly dividing the word of truth as paramount.

 

This means we seek the Holy Spirit who wrote the Bible (2Peter 1:20-21) to lead us to all truth (John16:13) proving all things (1Thessalonians 5:21) by first testing that who we [think] is the Holy Spirit actually is (1John 4:1) by the written truth the Bible (John 17:17b) and (Acts 17:11) realizing that the scriptures are the measure of truth by which to measure all things and to be equipped for every situation (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

Instead, people put their trust in traditions of men (in which nearly all Church doctrines are based), other people's interpretation of scripture or events or history, as by so doing nullify the word of God (Mark 7:7-13).

 

So all that is left is human error on which people disagree with no basis to prove themselves or others wrong. They've already nullified the Word of God or dismissed it and / or elevate their tradition / doctrines / dogma above scripture and give it fancy names like denominational platform or catechism or papal decree...

 

Even the (so-called) Apostle's Creed is filled with error. Example, creed #1:

 

God the Father created heaven and earth.

 

Isaiah 44:24 (KJV)
24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

 

Hebrews 1:2 (KJV)
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 

Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

John 1:1-3 (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

Hebrews 1:2 and Colossians 1:16 almost seem to indicate the Father created through the Son... ah, but that would not be alone / by himself which Isaiah 44:24 says the Lord made the heavens and the earth alone by himself. This [could] be a corporate one as is found in Isaiah 43:10 (one in the Godhead speaking for the Godhead as one).

 

BUT!

 

The other foot drops in John 1...

 

John 1:14 (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

The Word (the creator) was made flesh assuring us who God the Word is (Jesus)... the ONLY begotten of the Father...

 

Cultists take this verse and say that the Father created the Son and the Son created all else.

 

Hebrews 1:5 and Hebrews 10:5 assure us that the created part of Jesus (i.e. his body the last Adam [1 Corinthians 15:45]  and again John 1:1-3 and 1 John 1:1-2 assure us that the Spirit of Jesus is God that preexisted his body and was with the Father as an equal in the beginning.

 

That body was the only thing God the Father ever made.

 

In the beginning, all things created were created by God the Word alone by himself.

 

The Apostle's creed (so called) is wrong. God the Father did not create heaven and earth God the Word did (who later became the Son of God).

 

Another error is most Churches subscribe to a false division in the Church. Clergy / laity.

 

The Bible teaches all men and women and children in the New Covenant / New Testament faith (Christianity) are all priests before God.

 

 

1 Peter 2:3-9 (KJV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

 

Revelation 1:6 (KJV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

The division between the priestly and non-priestly is Old Testament / Old Covenant where only one tribe was priestly (Levites) and only casts / courses within the tribe did actual priestly duties.

 

This was not God's original intent...

 

Exodus 19:6 (KJV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

 

But the events of Exodus 32 changed all that to the division between clergy / laity for the remainder of the covenant.

 

We in the Church have allowed this Old Testament failure to be brought forward into the New...

 

These are just to name a few examples of the point being made... if we allowed God the Holy Spirit to command the ship and used the Bible as its fuel we'd be one big ship unified as Jesus prayed for us to be over and over in his high priestly prayer John 17.

[Willa]

As to the new birth, when speaking to Nicodemus Jesus said that we cannot see the Holy Spirit but we can hear Him and see His effects, just as we can see what the wind does to the trees but we cannot see the wind. We can see the fruit of the Holy Spirit, but we cannot confine Him to a ritual or doctrine or put Him in a bottle.. He does as He wants. Most churches want to confine the Holy Spirit to a doctrine and a formula. That is partly based on our own experience by which we tend to interpret Scripture. So we have the believe and is baptizeders, the believe and confessers, the believe and repenters, the believe onlyers, and then we have to define believe. But only God knows our hearts. We will see a changed life in those who are born again. But we cannot always define what that change will be. A 6 year old may start obeying his mom by picking up his clothes. This is a result of repentance. We cannot apply the same change to everyone. God treats each of us as individuals so the change that the Holy Spirit produces in each is different. Eventually God produces fruit--love joy peace--.

Divisions are evil. Denominations are not. Each emphasizes a teaching that an individual needs. But we need to be flexible to move should God want us to move. If we are resistant to change, sometimes the trouble that we develop in a church is due to God prompting us to move elsewhere. Normally He moves us to try another church and we find it is more like home than the one we have been going to. And in that place God teaches us new lessons. Quite often the lessons have more to do with loving and forgiving others. They have to do with fitting us into a body, finding our gifts and a place to function there, and how to bless others in spite of themselves.

But should we be inclined to run at the first sign of trouble, God may be trying to teach us to stay and forgive, love, and work things out. He may be humbling us so we can receive what that church has to offer. Ususally the lesson we think we are learning is far from what God is working out in our lives.

We can all learn from each other. We need to take the good, that the Holy Spirit is teaching us, and leave the rest behind. So it is in church. I write down what the Holy Spirit says to me and forget what man says.. Here on the forum I need to do the same. I need to receive what is from God and forget the rest.

Divisions are ususally filled with animosity which is sin. In the case of Luther, it resulted in a bitter war that was political. In those days there was no division between church and state but only state run churches with lots of politics. Luther was far from perfect but he did accomplish some good things. He revealed evil practices in the Roman Churches that he tried to have reformed. He established the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith, and that being a gift from God. The church he established rectified many abuses but he did not have insight to go farther. The other churches he criticised were sometimes heretical, making doctrine of visions contrary to scripture as did some anabaptists. Instead of learning from them he denounced even the good ones. Calvin also had much to offer but brought the limitations of human reasoning in his interpretation of scripture. But he went a little farther in reforming the corruption of the Roman church. All of these early reformers did according to the light given them at the time. Perhaps had they grown in Christ instead of digging in their heels, they would have come to more agreement. But they were defending their positions instead of LOOKING FOR COMMON GROUND. WE CAN KEEP OUR DISTINGUISHING DIFFERENCES IF WE FOCUS ON WHAT WE HAVE IN COMMON AND ARE DETERMINED TO LOVE AND RESPECT EACH OTHER IN THE LOVE OF CHRIST.

In contrast, the eccumenical movement trashes the differences to the point of throwing out truth and adopting the very abuses the reformers rose up against.

There are so many of you that I hope to meet someday in heaven. We truly are the family of God, even those of us who have funny ideas.

[Guest DRS81]

His body is the church, but not coming to the conclusion or faith that (Jesus is in fact God and also your savior) is holding back the actual salvation in your life. Some may call that a tragedy. The only way to know the Father is through Jesus Christ first. When you believe and confess that Jesus is your Lord and savior, only then does the Holy Spirit indwell you. Man has created denominations in order to write their own truth. They don't wanna face the fact that our God is a holy God and without sin, so they do half. They confess with their mouth, but they cannot bring themselves to believe in their heart. It's all about your heart!!

[Enoc]

Genuine question - I do not want to start an argument, or even debate for its sole sake, but to truly understand:

 

Why are there so many denominations in the Christian faith, when in our faith we should be unified in Christ and not in the teachings/traditions of men, where one group believe they hold more/all truth compared to all the others - knowing that our faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and His Word are the centre that holds us together? 

 

I truly hope I don't open a can of worms here, and if I don't receive any replies I'll understand.  I just really want to know.

 

IMO most Christians lack spiritual maturity to step beyond the human condition. They are bound by culture, tradition, and plain old fear. None of these things should hinder someone walking with GOD.   

Matthew 12:29

New King James Version (NKJV)

29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.

[Butch5]

Genuine question - I do not want to start an argument, or even debate for its sole sake, but to truly understand:

 

Why are there so many denominations in the Christian faith, when in our faith we should be unified in Christ and not in the teachings/traditions of men, where one group believe they hold more/all truth compared to all the others - knowing that our faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and His Word are the centre that holds us together? 

 

I truly hope I don't open a can of worms here, and if I don't receive any replies I'll understand.  I just really want to know.

I believe the reason is partly a lack of serious study by many Christians. Add to that the erroneous teachings that have been accepted as Christian doctrine over the years and you have what we have today. There are quite a bit of doctrines taught in the Church today that simply are not Christian doctrines. They were brought into the faith at some point and are now accepted as orthodox, however, they were not part of what Jesus and the apostles taught. I think we would make great strides towards unity if we would we seriously consider everything we believe and make it subject to the Scriptures instead of making the Scriptures subject to our presuppositions. Another major reason for the multitude of denominations is that Christians are taught to profgf text. They go to church and the pastor tells them the Bible teaches this doctrine and then he goes and takes a verse from this book and one from that book and says see, that's what it says. This is done without any regard for the context in which those passages were written. As an example, I've heard numerous Christians say that  nothing man does is any good before God and they will quote Isaiah 64:6,

 

⁶ But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. (Isa 63:19 KJV)

 

This passage says no such thing. It is Isaiah who is speaking not God and he is speaking on behalf of Israel, not all humanity. Isaiah is pleading Israel's case before God as Israel has sinned against Him.

 

It's this taking Scripture out of it's context and applying it in a way that Scripture doesn't that causes much confusion. This is done by Christians in an attempt to support several doctrines that the Bible simply doesn't teach.

[Littlelambseativy]

 

Even during the apostles' time some followed one apostle over another. It was most likely the interpretation of what was taught. Not everyone who views the same thing sees it the same way. Our unique experiences lead us to view things differently in addition to what we learned at our parents' knee. It's never the big things in the Bible that divide  it is the small that become big issues in forming denominations. Not even the apostles disciples agreed and followed one's teachings over another.

 

Thank you for this answer. In my own experience I have found that these churches that focus on the small issues tend to focus less on the gospel, and less on Christ. There is truly only One Church, and I am so thankful that I am a part of it!

 

I totally disagree with you. It is the fundamentals that are stand firm - the Jesus, His sacrifice on the cross, the cleansing of sin through the blood of Jesus, the Trinity, the Holy Word of God and all that is in it, the divinity of Jesus, the rapture, the resurrection and the judgement, etc do not change but the interpretation of baptism, the manner or order of a worship service, etc those do make a difference in the denominations.