Peter on the Last Days - Part One

[Steve_S]

I think people also think that verse I come like a thief at night means rapture to.

Yes,it does.

There are two references where "thief in the night" is specifically referenced in the new testament. The first is by Paul:

1Th 5:2-3 NKJV  For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.  (3)  For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

In this specific instance there is obvious imagery of destruction being involved, presumably upon those not justified (particularly if you read forward a few verses), but I'm not going to focus on this one. Peter expounds much more specifically upon the concept:

2Pe 3:10 NKJV  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Now, you advocate a plain reading of the scriptures in this very thread and in many other posts. I agree with you wholehearted only this concept. A plain reading of this verse obviously and irrevocably associates the "day of the Lord" with coming "as a thief in the night." This seems to do one very obvious thing - it clears up any confusion on whether or not this phrase is associated with a pre-trib rapture, insofar as, unless you are willing to add perhaps 1007 years or so into a gap where the comma sits between "night" and "in" then the thief imagery is clearly associated with something other than a secret, imminent rapture. A plain reading of this seems to leave no room for a pre-trib rapture falling out of this specific scripture. Whether or not a pre-trib rapture is found elsewhere in the scriptures is a different argument (though I do not think that it is). This is likely associated, from what I can tell, with the actual passing away of the old earth and the ushering in of the new. This is further expanded upon by Peter in later verses in the same chapter:

2Pe 3:11-13 NKJV  Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,  (12)  looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?  (13)  Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

We see similar imagery in the opening verses of revelation 21 (specifically regarding the "new heavens and a new earth"):

Rev 21:1 NKJV  Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

 

We aren't given direct expansion here on how the old earth passed away, but peter indicates that it is through dissolution by fire/heat, with them passing away with a great noise. This seems to fall in the period after the millennium. Due to this it is very difficult to see the thief in the night imagery being used to describe a rapture if you do a plain reading of the scripture.

God bless,

Steve

 

 

[Marilyn C]

 

I believe it is important to know the `Days` of the Lord. Applying this concept of designated `days` in the Divine program of prediction, it is possible to correlate & harmonise all relevant prophecies to constitute a straightforward, clear & definitive program which delineates an ordered & progressive unfolding of these events & their particular place in relationship to God`s eternal plan.

 

1. The Day of Christ. (Phil. 1: 6 – 10.  1 Cor. 1: 7 – 8)

   This period is not only the first in chronological order of fulfillment, but it is the greatest in importance in the Divine predestinations. Each reference relates entirely & exclusively to the Church, the Body of Christ, in the specific time-slot identified with the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ for His Body. All other expression of His ordinations are dependent on its completion.  

    

    

2. The Day of the Lord (God, Almighty)

   One of the major themes in the Word of God concerns the prophetic truth relative to a time of international crisis in the last days. A time completely without precedent: a time utterly dissimilar, by its concentration & extent to anything previously known in the history of the world. This period is consistently referred to as `The Day of the Lord,` & refers to that period coinciding with God dealing again with Israel & the nations subsequent to the Rapture of the Church; & terminating with the destruction of the heavens & the earth (2 Peter 3: 10).

 

 

       3.  The Day of God.

      This `Day` is that specific time-slot when God will purge & purify the heavens & the earth by fire; restore the Kingdom to the Father, & set in motion God`s Eternal Purposes (2 Peter 3: 7 – 12).

 

 

    These are just some of the notes from Apostle Gardiner, former President of the Apostolic Denomination, which came out of the Welsh Revival early last Century (Note - not the NAS).

 

Marilyn.

 

Peter, the Day of the Lord..docx

Edited September 9, 2015 by Marilyn C

[firestormx]

Just curious as to your understanding of the day of the Lord that you referenced in Joel. I've heard different conclusions as to what the Day of the Lord will be and was curious as to what your understanding is.

Actually firestormx, I think that is a fair and great question. I will be honest, as forthright as I know how to be. The short answer is:

I Don't Know

The term is used quite a bit in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments. There are variation, which may, or may not be the same thing, e.g. day of Christ, day of God, Day of Yahweh, and maybe some others. Coincidentally as I noticed your question just now, I was searching out that very concept in the Bible, looking for more light. Once I have done this (I have done it before but I forger things I learn), I will try to respond with more clarity and detail, assuming I find more clarity and detail.

However, my current impression (understanding would be to strong a word at this time) is that the  phrase "Day of the Lord" may not refer to only one event, and almost certainly is not a reference to a 24 hour period, or the period between sunrise and sunset, but most likely a more extended period of time, and least i some circumstances, like we use the term in a sentence like "in my father's day".  ackkk! computer acting wierd, will have to resume later

I look forward to reading your response, once you have searched it out in scripture. My searching it out led me to the conclusion that it is usually used in reference to a time period of God's promised judgement or wrath and the consequences there of being played out. Take your time, I'm not going anywhere .  I think having a proper understanding of the phrase " day of the Lord " is key to understanding the Joel 2 prophecy properly .

Edited September 9, 2015 by firestormx

[Last Daze]

 

However, my current impression (understanding would be to strong a word at this time) is that the  phrase "Day of the Lord" may not refer to only one event, and almost certainly is not a reference to a 24 hour period,

or the period between sunrise and sunset, but most likely a more extended period of time,...

This is the proper understanding of the Day of the LORD (YHWH).  It is a period of the severest judgements to be poured out supernaturally on the whole world, and would correspond to the 6th and 7th seal judgements, which correspond to the Great Tribulation.

I agree that the day of the Lord lasts for more than a single day.  As I see it, it begins at the seventh trumpet, when Christ takes over governance of the earth, and carries on throughout the millennium.

I think people also think that verse I come like a thief at night means rapture to.

Yes,it does.

There are two references where "thief in the night" is specifically referenced in the new testament. The first is by Paul:

1Th 5:2-3 NKJV  For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.  (3)  For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

In this specific instance there is obvious imagery of destruction being involved, presumably upon those not justified (particularly if you read forward a few verses), but I'm not going to focus on this one. Peter expounds much more specifically upon the concept:

2Pe 3:10 NKJV  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Now, you advocate a plain reading of the scriptures in this very thread and in many other posts. I agree with you wholehearted only this concept. A plain reading of this verse obviously and irrevocably associates the "day of the Lord" with coming "as a thief in the night." This seems to do one very obvious thing - it clears up any confusion on whether or not this phrase is associated with a pre-trib rapture, insofar as, unless you are willing to add perhaps 1007 years or so into a gap where the comma sits between "night" and "in" then the thief imagery is clearly associated with something other than a secret, imminent rapture. A plain reading of this seems to leave no room for a pre-trib rapture falling out of this specific scripture. Whether or not a pre-trib rapture is found elsewhere in the scriptures is a different argument (though I do not think that it is). This is likely associated, from what I can tell, with the actual passing away of the old earth and the ushering in of the new. This is further expanded upon by Peter in later verses in the same chapter:

2Pe 3:11-13 NKJV  Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,  (12)  looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?  (13)  Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

We see similar imagery in the opening verses of revelation 21 (specifically regarding the "new heavens and a new earth"):

Rev 21:1 NKJV  Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

 

We aren't given direct expansion here on how the old earth passed away, but peter indicates that it is through dissolution by fire/heat, with them passing away with a great noise. This seems to fall in the period after the millennium. Due to this it is very difficult to see the thief in the night imagery being used to describe a rapture if you do a plain reading of the scripture.

God bless,

Steve

 

 

This is the plain, most straightforward understanding of "thief in the night".  I'd like to add to it what Christ said as the armies are gathering together at Armageddon.

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.  Rev 16:15

Some say that this verse has nothing to do with the context of armies being gathered at Armageddon, that it's a general warning that just happens to be right there.  I guess it's easier to say that than it is to rethink what the implications might be if it were placed there deliberately.

The plain reading would suggest that the day of the Lord, which comes as a thief, is chronologically subsequent to that passage.  All that is left after the sixth bowl is poured out is the seventh plague angel's trumpet and bowl, the third woe.  The seventh (last) trumpet begins the day of the Lord which comes as a thief, for those in darkness.  It is the blessed hope for those in the light, the resurrection / rapture.  That day will extend out a thousand years.

 

[ENOCH2010]

The saints coming with the Lord at the rapture/second coming are all the ones that have died over the last 2000 years. Not a group of pre trib raptured people.

[Last Daze]

The saints coming with the Lord at the rapture/second coming are all the ones that have died over the last 2000 years. Not a group of pre trib raptured people.

I personally wouldn't limit it to New Testament saints.

[ENOCH2010]

The saints coming with the Lord at the rapture/second coming are all the ones that have died over the last 2000 years. Not a group of pre trib raptured people.

I personally wouldn't limit it to New Testament saints.

Correct Last Daze I think the Old Testament Saints will be in that number also, I just failed to wright it down.

[Ezra]

The saints coming with the Lord at the rapture/second coming are all the ones that have died over the last 2000 years. Not a group of pre trib raptured people.

Not sure what you meant by this. The ones who are raptured are ALL THE SAINTS who have ever lived, since it is a Resurrection/Rapture.  But they first GO with the Lord to Heaven, then COME with the Lord at His Second Coming. The Marriage of the Lamb must take place between the Rapture and the Second Coming.  See Revelation 19 for details. 

[ENOCH2010]

The saints coming with the Lord at the rapture/second coming are all the ones that have died over the last 2000 years. Not a group of pre trib raptured people.

Not sure what you meant by this. The ones who are raptured are ALL THE SAINTS who have ever lived, since it is a Resurrection/Rapture.  But they first GO with the Lord to Heaven, then COME with the Lord at His Second Coming. The Marriage of the Lamb must take place between the Rapture and the Second Coming.  See Revelation 19 for details. 

What I meant by that is they're will not be a pre-trib rapture, the rapture happens at the second coming just as the Bible says.

[Last Daze]

The saints coming with the Lord at the rapture/second coming are all the ones that have died over the last 2000 years. Not a group of pre trib raptured people.

Not sure what you meant by this. The ones who are raptured are ALL THE SAINTS who have ever lived, since it is a Resurrection/Rapture.  But they first GO with the Lord to Heaven, then COME with the Lord at His Second Coming. The Marriage of the Lamb must take place between the Rapture and the Second Coming.  See Revelation 19 for details. 

What I meant by that is they're will not be a pre-trib rapture, the rapture happens at the second coming just as the Bible says.

Yes, that's the straightforward read.  People tend to complicate things unnecessarily.  For some reason, they think that the resurrection / rapture and Christ's return to earth can't happen on the same day because of the marriage supper.  What they fail to take into account is that at the resurrection / rapture all those who are going to attend the marriage supper put on immortality. Time is not an issue because they will exist outside of time.  It's not a difficult concept to grasp.  In fact, it is possible that those on earth may not see any time lapse between the resurrection / rapture and Christ's return to earth.

And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.  And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”  Acts 1:9-11

The second coming or return of Christ will happen in the same way as what's in orange (but in reverse obviously).  How much time lapsed between Jesus' feet leaving the ground and the clouds receiving Him and He was out of sight?  Seven years?  Three and one-half years?  My guess is more along the order of minutes.