Just what the heck IS the water??

[Pamelasv]

I'm sorry, Ezra, but it must be the way you are writing, that the way you are explaining, just doesn't, in many parts, make any sense to me. And I am pretty good at making sense. First, at the beginning, you have two different bible quotes. Both saying they are kjv.  The real one must be the first. Then your first Q:, you didn't answer about the son being capitalized or not, whether it mattered or why.  If you did. It wasn"t clear.  But I am VERY tired. So maybe it is just me. But also, if it really is the 'Father' and not the Spirit referring to the triune God, then it still doesn't explain the use of the word water through out the rest of scripture.  One more thing.  How does both blood AND water prove He had died at the cross?  Is this a naturally occuring phenomenon? 

[Pamelasv]

! John 5-7

'Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God?  This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and the blood.  It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify:  The Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.'

 

I had thought it to be the Word at one point, because of Ephesians 5:26  where it says 'with the washing of water with the Word.'  But I guess I'm wrong.

'The Word' IS Jesus.

The Word is alot of things by God!  The Word is everything by God, actually.  We refer the the bible as the Word.  He created everything by His Word.  He speaks and it comes into being. 'For the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two edge sword...'  I guess I'm not getting how it is Jesus, but a part of it.  

[MorningGlory]

! John 5-7

'Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God?  This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and the blood.  It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify:  The Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.'

 

I had thought it to be the Word at one point, because of Ephesians 5:26  where it says 'with the washing of water with the Word.'  But I guess I'm wrong.

'The Word' IS Jesus.

The Word is alot of things by God!  The Word is everything by God, actually.  We refer the the bible as the Word.  He created everything by His Word.  He speaks and it comes into being. 'For the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two edge sword...'  I guess I'm not getting how it is Jesus, but a part of it.  

Jesus is the Word, the Word is Jesus.  See below, especially the underlined:

John 1   King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

² The same was in the beginning with God.

³ All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

⁴ In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

⁵ And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

⁶ There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

⁷ The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

⁸ He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

⁹ That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

¹⁰ He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

¹¹ He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

¹² But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

¹³ Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

¹⁴ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

¹⁵ John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

¹⁶ And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

¹⁷ For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Chris

[Ezra]

I'm sorry, Ezra, but it must be the way you are writing, that the way you are explaining, just doesn't, in many parts, make any sense to me.

Pamela, I have edited my post for clarity and also answered your question.

[Pamelasv]

Maybe it's referring to baptism as a physical manifestation/symbol of being born again?

 

A symbol of life?  I am thinking of revelations towards the end of 'the water of life.' 

To support this, first, in 2 Peter he talks about how the unrighteous are 2:17 'These men are springs without water.  Also the Samaritan women at the well, Jesus told her He would give her 'living' water. 

It has to do with spiritual life, and it is a spiritual water, but for the sake of us in the natural, it poured out of Jesus in the natural too, to bear witness. It was a sign. 

[Openly Curious]

! John 5-7

'Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God?  This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and the blood.  It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify:  The Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.'

 

I had thought it to be the Word at one point, because of Ephesians 5:26  where it says 'with the washing of water with the Word.'  But I guess I'm wrong.

When Jesus went to be baptized by John - Matthew 3:11-17  1.)There was a voice from heaven that said, "this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased (this is the witness of the Spirit of truth from heaven).  When Jesus was baptized in the Jordan river by John Jesus told him to suffer it to be for know as John felt unworthy to baptize Jesus.  Because Jesus was the spotless lamb without any sin to be forgiven for as baptism is an outward sign to the world that your sins have been washed away.  So Jesus suffered baptism as a witness to the world (baptism in water is a witness).  Then the work of the cross in how Jesus gave his own body as the sacrifice for the sins of mankind as they nailed him to the cross as Jesus shed his on blood for the remission of sins.  In their accusation against Jesus they set up over his head the words that were written "THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS" Matthew 27:11-14 & Matthew 27:32-37 

These three agree and give testimony in the earth the Spirit of truth, Water baptism an outer sign of an inward work and the Blood of Christ that was shed for remission of sin

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Pamela,,,

    Great replies(most of them) also,just wanted to add ,,,,WE(humans ) are made up of anywhere from 50 to 75% water,,,,,,not just blood but "water & blood"                          Glory to God!!!!                                 With love-in Christ,Kwik

[FreeinChrist]

6)  This is He that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only but by water and blood, And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.  7)  For there are Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these Three are One.  8)  And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit and the water and the blood and these three agree in one.   I John 5:6-8

These three verse come just before I John 5:9-10 and IMHO are a landmark that God put here because He knew that the devil would convince many that most of I John 5:7 was added which of course it wasn't.  For we read that the witness of God is greater than the witness of man in I John 5:9.  So that in verse 6 the water and blood refers to mans witness while we read of this witness in I John 5:8, but when John just speaks the words not by water only he is referring to the witness of God at Christ baptism.  This is God witness and is referred to in I John 5:7.

We see the witness of man at Jesus death. We read in John 19:30  When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished:  and He gave up the Ghost.  Of course we know that Ghost is another word for Spirit.  Than later we read 34)  But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced His side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.  35)  And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true; and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.  John 19:34-35   So we see the blood and water coming out of the Body of Jesus side after that the Spirit has depart, and than we John wrote this gospel so that in verse 35, John gives us the witness of man.  This is the water and blood of verse 6 and the water and blood and Spirit which agree in one in verse 8.

Now when we read John Gospel message of the Baptism of Jesus; John never saith he witness it however we see another John speaking (this was John the Baptist),    32)  And John bare record saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon Him.   33)  And I knew Him not: but He that sent me to baptize with water, the Same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on HIm, the Same is He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost .  34)  And I saw and bare record that this is the Son of God.  John 1:32-34   John the Baptist bare record according to this passage but when we read verse 33 we see that the Father guide him so that this was God record of Himself.   Remember in all other Gospel the Father speaks from heaven while the Spirit descend upon the Son, and each of these Gospel the Father states This is/ Thou are My Beloved Son, in Whom I Am well pleased... Matthew 3:16-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22.  So we see that water only in I John 5:6 is the water of the Baptism of Jesus, and it is God witness of Himself as Three in One I John 5:7, this is similar to the witness of the Word in Isaiah 48:16-17.  For at Christ baptism we hear the Father's voice and see the Spirit as a Dove, and of course Christ was there.

So that water and blood refers to Christ fluids that came from his pierce side, but the water only refers to Christ Baptism.

[Sister]

! John 5-7

'Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God?  This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and the blood.  It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify:  The Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.'

 

I had thought it to be the Word at one point, because of Ephesians 5:26  where it says 'with the washing of water with the Word.'  But I guess I'm wrong.

Pamelasv

He who came by "water" and "blood" is Jesus Christ.  He came into the world "flesh" out of his mothers womb.  Babies are born out of "water" and "blood".

 

 

[WilliamL]

! John 5-7

'Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God?  This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood.  It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify:  The Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.'

I had thought it to be the Word at one point, because of Ephesians 5:26  where it says 'with the washing of water with the Word.'  But I guess I'm wrong.

Pamelasv

He who came by "water" and "blood" is Jesus Christ.  He came into the world "flesh" out of his mothers womb.  Babies are born out of "water" and "blood".

Sister has it right, but let me explain it further. By the time that John wrote his epistle, gnosticism was already infesting the Church. Some began to teach that Jesus was not a mortal, but was totally Divine, untainted by the flesh: they viewed the flesh as evil in itself.

Now, when elohim/divine beings took on human form in the millennia before Jesus was born, and even ate and drank as humans do, their bodies were made of water-forms, a material manifestation of their nephesh/soul. The nephesh is the form of the emotional/water nature. But they had no blood, because blood is an exclusively human gift associated with procreation, which elohim cannot do by their very nature.

Thus the phrase, "not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood." By this phrase, and John's testimony about "water and blood" flowing from Christ's pierced side, John was showing that Jesus was fully human as well as being fully Divine. The final phrase of your quote literally reads, " and the three into the one are/exist." That is, again, Jesus was fully human and fully divine, because in him the fullness of the Spirit of God was united with the water and the blood of the Adamic race.