Pre-tribbers, what do you have

[wingnut-]

 

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I in no way see that army of Rev.9 being God's army of angels, and especially not on that 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period.

 

One thing we cannot do, is compress the trumpet - woe periods together so that the flow of events given separately within each one get all jumbled up. If there is one area in Revelation which the events are absolutely chronological, it's the event flow with the three last trumpet - woe periods.

 

A major reason why the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period events are not the time of God's judgment upon the wicked is because His judgment begins on the day of Christ's second coming with the Day of The Lord events. What you're doing by assigning a judgment early there in Rev.9 with that army is moving the Day of The Lord up earlier than written. That is something those on the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine often do, though I know you said you did not believe in the Pre-trib rapture idea.

 

There are direct parallels with those horsemen of Rev.9 in the first part of the chapter with those after the 6th trumpet. The whole chapter is about the same locust army of the Book of Joel. And if you look back to Joel you'll easily discover they work against God's elect on earth.

 

Locusts:

Rev.9:3 - power to sting like scorpions

9:4-5 - can't hurt any green thing on earth, but only those not sealed, and still cannot kill them

9:7 - their shapes like horses prepared unto battle,

9:7 - on their heads were crowns "like" gold, a pointer to their not being literal soldiers

9:9 - had breastplates of iron, sound of chariots of many horses running to battle

9:10 - had tails "like" scorpions, sting in their tails.

 

After 6th trumpet of Rev.9:14

9:16 - the horsemen make up an army (but what kind of army?)

9:17 - breastplates of not only fire and brimstone, but also jacinth, a precious stone signifying priestly breastplates

9:17 - fire and brimstone issued out of their "mouths", not by swords, tanks, guns, etc.

9:18 - men killed by what came out of their "mouths", mentioned twice for emphasis (God's Word does this often when showing us a special point)

9:19 - For their power is in their "mouth", that's 3 times for emphasis.

9:19 - had tails like serpents, a direct connection to "that old serpent", Satan himself per Rev.12:9

 

The killing is spiritual, not killing of literal flesh. They represent Satan's host causing deception of false worship by what comes out of their "mouths". It's all heavy metaphor.

 

Per Rev.9:4-5, the locusts cannot kill those not sealed with God's seal, but only 'sting' those for five months. That stinging is the killing in the latter part of the chapter. It is the destroying of one's soul by accepting the coming Antichrist and his mark and image, so we cannot just throw away the rest of God's Word about these events for the end just because this Rev.9 chapter involves a lot of heavy metaphor. Our Lord mentioned the idea of their power being by what comes out of their "mouths" 3 times so we'd be sure and get this interpretation. And early in the chapter with telling us the locusts cannot hurt any green thing on earth, that's to let us know that He is giving us info about the end involving spiritual deception using strong metaphorical language.

 

Therefore, that one third that are killed (spiritually) is by worshipping the coming pseudo-messiah in place of Christ Jesus. That's what that locust army is connected to with what comes out of their mouths. Even further forward in Rev.12:15 we are shown again this idea of spiritual deception for the end by what comes out of one's mouth, this time our Lord Jesus using the idea of waters "as" a flood coming out of the serpent's mouth.

 

Those remaining of Rev.9 that were not killed by that plague of the locusts, represent Satan's followers on earth among the peoples in all nations, devil worshippers, worshipers of their own works they have made, murderers, thieves, sexually immoral, sorcerers, etc. Common sense ought to tell you, that if that locust army was coming to pass judgment and destroy the wicked, it should have been these! We're given that so we can 'know'... for certain, the one-third that are killed is involving spiritual deception in false worship to the coming Antichrist, moral but deceived people being fooled into thinking he is Christ, a specific warning that our Lord Jesus gave His Church for the very end, as did His Apostles.

 

All... of those events on the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period flow together with the events in half of Rev.11. So what events are in Rev.11 to show what the timing on earth is?

 

Rev.11:1-2 - there is a temple of God on earth during this 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period. (7th trumpet hasn't sounded yet). Gentiles are given to tread the holy city (Jerusalem), and there are those who worship within this particular temple, pointing to it being on... the earth. So this is not about God's Heavenly temple. It's about a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem on earth for the last days. The 42 months the Gentiles tread the city correlate with the 42 months reign by the dragon given in Rev.13.

 

11:3-6 - God's two witnesses appear in Jerusalem for that 42 months (equal to 1260 days they prophesy). They will prophesy against the beast there at Jerusalem, this is tribulation timing, the "another beast" in rule on the earth.

 

11:7 - after the 1260 days, which is about the latter half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" prophecy, the two witnesses are killed by the beast who ascends from the bottomless pit (well I wonder who that is?), with their dead bodies left laying in the street for 3 and 1/2 days. This is all still... 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing.

 

11:8 - we are told exactly where... the two witnesses are killed with their dead bodies left laying in the street, the city where our Lord Jesus was crucified, Jerusalem.

 

11:9-10 - the nations will see their dead bodies for 3 and 1/2 days; they will throw parties, give each other presents because the two witnesses who tormented them, meaning Satan is in... control over the nations during this 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period.

 

11:14 forward - the 7th trumpet - 3rd final woe occurs, all the kingdoms of this world become those of The Father and His Son, signifying the ending of the tribulation, end of Satan's reign, end of the wicked's control over the earth, and including the events on the Day of The Lord when Jesus comes to gather His Church and pour out His cup of wrath upon the wicked.

 

 

Hello again salty,

 

Ok, so let's compare these two armies using the lists you give above.  For clarity, I am going to call the first army the locust army, and the second army I'll just refer to as the other army.

 

The locust army have tails and stings like scorpions.  The other army have tails like serpents.  Not the same.

The locust army cannot kill, only torment.  The other army is going to kill a third of mankind.  Not the same.

The locust army have breastplates of iron.  The other army has breastplates of fire and brimstone and jacinth.  Not the same.

 

Now, the significance of the iron breastplate is related to Jesus and His reign with an iron scepter.  And what do we know of fire and brimstone?  That is reserved for the wicked as judgement.  And jacinth?  Who are the priestly?  That would be those who take part in the first resurrection, believers.  And why the emphasis on what comes out of their mouths?

 

Revelation 19:¹¹ I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. ¹² His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. ¹³ He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. ¹⁴ The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. ¹⁵ Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

 

The other army is this army spoken of here.  It is our Lord who destroys the wicked with the sharp sword coming out of His mouth to strike down the nations, with an iron scepter.  You and I will be a part of the other army, and we are the good guys.  So you see, I am not compressing scripture, it compresses itself with a fast and furious finish, just as Isaiah foretold.  The last two woes are depicted in chapter 18, when mystery Babylon receives her double portion, or two woes.  You however are trying to compress scripture by making the locust army appear in two different judgements, when the differences between the two are not ignorable.

 

I look forward to your response, God bless you.

[Salty]

 

 

Hello again salty,

 

Ok, so let's compare these two armies using the lists you give above.  For clarity, I am going to call the first army the locust army, and the second army I'll just refer to as the other army.

 

The locust army have tails and stings like scorpions.  The other army have tails like serpents.  Not the same.

 

Salty:  same army, their tails in the latter part are compared with serpents because that was one of the metaphors our Lord Jesus used to point to His enemies, and thus our enemies. It's a symbolic reference to Satan as "that old serpent" and his followers of the "workers of iniquity".

 

 

The locust army cannot kill, only torment.  The other army is going to kill a third of mankind.  Not the same.

 

Salty:  they can literally kill, you have to use process of elimination when reading the passage about their not being allowed to kill only those 'not sealed' (i.e., the deceived), which means they will be able to kill some of God's elect that 'are sealed', and that's in alignment with some brethren that will be beheaded for giving Christ's Witness per the 5th Seal events.

 

Furthermore, you have to use process of elimination also with the latter part that says one third are killed, because it does not spell it out who those are directly. We are specifically shown the wicked of Rev.9:20-21 are NOT the one third killed by that plague of locusts. And that idea of the "plague" is about those locusts specifically, for that is part of the locust metaphor itself as a comparison to how real locusts swarm and strip a land bare, as also shown in the Book of Joel. So if the one third is not represented of the wicked, then who are they? The one third are the deceived into false worship, because that is what that 'stinging' without God's seal means in the first part. It thus points to the killing of the one third not as literal death, but spiritual death via deception.

 

The locust army have breastplates of iron.  The other army has breastplates of fire and brimstone and jacinth.  Not the same.

 

Salty:  don't have to be exactly the same breastplates, because the different breastplate material between the former and the latter marks two different times of the locust's operation, the former to "prepare" for battle, and the latter to actually bring the time of battle. Their hair like women is also a pointer to their deception prep over the deceived during the 5th trumpet - 1st woe period. It represents soothsaying. On the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe Satan (their king over them) is cast out for the tribulation timing, so that latter part of the chapter is a different working time by the locusts.

 

Now, the significance of the iron breastplate is related to Jesus and His reign with an iron scepter.  And what do we know of fire and brimstone?  That is reserved for the wicked as judgement.  And jacinth?  Who are the priestly?  That would be those who take part in the first resurrection, believers.  And why the emphasis on what comes out of their mouths?

 

Revelation 19:¹¹ I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. ¹² His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. ¹³ He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. ¹⁴ The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. ¹⁵ Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

 

 

Salty:  the "rod of iron" our Lord Jesus will rule with per Ps.2 and Revelation is for AFTER... His coming on the Day of The Lord and His cup of wrath upon the wicked, which is not until the 7th Trumpet / 7th Vial timing. You're moving the Day of The Lord events up in the timeline again. His "rod of iron" has nothing to do those breastplates of the locusts. A rod is not the same thing as a breastplate. It's also important to remember that the fire and brimstone comes out of their 'mouths', for their power is in their 'mouths'. But what does Christ come with to conquer the wicked on the last day? A sword out of His mouth per Rev.19, which is a different idea, especially since none... of the events on the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe written in Rev.11 should even happen if His coming were on the 6th trumpet!

 

And I thought you agreed that Christ's coming was ON that 7th Trumpet / 7th Vial, and not... the 6th trumpet???

 

 

 

The other army is this army spoken of here.  It is our Lord who destroys the wicked with the sharp sword coming out of His mouth to strike down the nations, with an iron scepter.  You and I will be a part of the other army, and we are the good guys.  So you see, I am not compressing scripture, it compresses itself with a fast and furious finish, just as Isaiah foretold.  The last two woes are depicted in chapter 18, when mystery Babylon receives her double portion, or two woes.  You however are trying to compress scripture by making the locust army appear in two different judgements, when the differences between the two are not ignorable.

 

Salty:  like I said before, that locust army is the locust army of the Book of Joel. That's where the parallel to those events are. And that army is coming as a plague against God's people on earth in the last days, not as our saviour. That is not our Lord Jesus' saving army. But since that's what you believe, I must also assume that you have misrepresented yourself here, and that you actually do... believe in the Pre-trib Secret Rapture theory which some of those also believe that's Christ army and the time of His coming to gather His saints on earth.

 

[wingnut-]

 

 

 

 

Hello again salty,

 

Here is the problem with trying to put the locust army in two separate events during the end.

 

Revelation 9:⁴ They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. ⁵ They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes.

 

The locust army has a limited time, five months.  This is the only place we see a specific time length attached.  Also, I do agree that His coming is at the sound of the 7th trumpet, and I do not believe in a pre-trib rapture.  Jesus will come right when He said He will, and that according to scripture is here.

 

Revelation 16:¹⁵ “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

 

Now, I will try to explain to you how I see these final events playing out, because I think we agree on the time of the rapture, but perhaps I am not expressing it in a way you understand me.

 

I think it begins with the opening of the 5th seal, and then the 5th trumpet sounding.  The trumpet could come first, but I believe these two events will be within a short time of each other.  This is when the great tribulation begins.  This coincides with the antichrist rising from the fatal head wound, and the implementation of the mark of the beast which will shortly follow the 5th trumpet.  You will have the war being waged against believers, while the Jewish remnant is taken aside by the Lord to the wilderness.  This period will make up for the majority of the great tribulation, right up until the 6th seal is opened.

 

When the 6th seal is opened, the world will be in total darkness, no sun, no moon, no stars.  This was the first sign Jesus gave as to His coming, and the lesson from the fig tree is, that the time is near, right at the door.  The final events of the 6th and 7th judgements will happen right on top of each other, with the 7th trumpet sounding in the midst of the 6th bowl, as the scripture shows above.  These final events take place very quickly, in a very specific hour of a very specific day.  The same day and hour Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24.

 

As far as you attaching the locust army to the army spoken of after the 6th trumpet.  Can you please explain in any reasonable fashion how you see an army that you say is the enemy as being "priestly".  Which is precisely what the reference to jacinth infers, as you correctly pointed out.  This to me is a no-brainer, those who take part in the first resurrection are said to be this.

 

Revelation 20:⁶ Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

 

The suggestion that the word "priestly" could be applied to the wicked does not compute with me.  Coupled with the fact that the locust army only has five months.  I look forward to your response, God bless you.

[KPaulG]

 

 

Hi wingnut,

 

Yes `living waters` are in Zech. & Rev. however they speak of different times. In Zech. we see that when the Lord descends upon Mt. of Olives that it splits in two & living waters flow out across the land to the sea. This is in the Millennium & helps heal the land & the waters. In Rev. we see that this is referring to after the Millennium, when there is the New heavens & New Earth & note, there is NO SEA. (Rev. 21: 1)

 

 

Hello again Marilyn,

 

You are a blessing, and your knowledge of scripture is as well.  What I want to point out to you, is that you have the correct pieces, but you are not putting them together.  First, I just want to clarify that I do not see this as judgement, sorry if I gave you that impression.  The feast of trumpets and the day of atonement is what I see as judgement, the three festivals go together.

 

Now as to the Feast of Tabernacles, that is a celebration of God with us. It is not of judgment that you had thought in another post but means `God with us.` So all the nations gathering to celebrate this, is a time of rejoicing.

 

 

 

Above we see a time of rejoicing for all people, kinda like a wedding supper?

We see God with us.  When does this happen?

 

Revelation 21:² I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. ³ And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ⁴ ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

 

Zechariah is pointing to the very end, he uses symbolism to do so.  The red letters above tell you precisely when this happens.  You see the same thing I do, you are just not connecting them.  This is the same reason horses and kitchen pottery are said to be sacred, these are things that will not take place until it is done.  Everything that enters into God the Father's presence must be imperishable.  I am not picking and choosing these symbols, they are apparent when you understand the purpose.

 

What was the purpose of Jesus?  When we understand the purpose, we should know that animal sacrifice is not coming back, correct?  The unchanging purpose of God ultimately includes no more death, animals as well as people.  When the Jews rebuild the temple and start their sacrifices again, are they saved?  No.  You know these things as well as I do.

 

God bless you sister.

 

Wingnut, my bro, this is happy!!  

 

God Bless you!

[Salty]

 

 

Hello again salty,

 

Here is the problem with trying to put the locust army in two separate events during the end.

 

Revelation 9:⁴ They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. ⁵ They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes.

 

The locust army has a limited time, five months.  This is the only place we see a specific time length attached.  Also, I do agree that His coming is at the sound of the 7th trumpet, and I do not believe in a pre-trib rapture.  Jesus will come right when He said He will, and that according to scripture is here.

 

I wouldn't jump too quickly past that "five months" meaning, because though it's given within the 5th trumpet - 1st woe timing, it's actual time begins with the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe. Rev.9 is not directly telling us when the "another beast" is loosed, but by the events that occur during the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe, with Christ's coming on the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe, we should realize that 6th trumpet timing is "great tribulation" timing. And that's when the ultimate time of 'stinging' upon the deceived will be, falling to worship the coming pseudo-Christ in Jerusalem. Some won't agree with this parallel, but the actual time that Noah's ark was upon the height of the flood waters was five months (150 days per Hebrew reckoning of 30 days to a month). Per Rev.12, the waters as a flood out of the serpent's "mouth" represents that time, and that stinging upon the deceived. And thus on the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe loosing, we're told those were prepared for a specific time.

 

Revelation 16:¹⁵ “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

 

Now, I will try to explain to you how I see these final events playing out, because I think we agree on the time of the rapture, but perhaps I am not expressing it in a way you understand me.

 

I think it begins with the opening of the 5th seal, and then the 5th trumpet sounding.  The trumpet could come first, but I believe these two events will be within a short time of each other.  This is when the great tribulation begins.  This coincides with the antichrist rising from the fatal head wound, and the implementation of the mark of the beast which will shortly follow the 5th trumpet.  You will have the war being waged against believers, while the Jewish remnant is taken aside by the Lord to the wilderness.  This period will make up for the majority of the great tribulation, right up until the 6th seal is opened.

 

I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree. I see the sting of deception starting on the 5th trumpet, but the real stinging is when the pseudo-Christ (Antichrist) shows up to demand that all bow in worship of him in place of God. There are many brethren deceived already about what's coming and who the Antichrist will actually be. The locusts working has already started. The main event is getting ready to occur right after that 5th trumpet with the 6th trumpet timing; per Rev.11 we're shown it is about the latter 1260 days of Daniels final "one week" of Dan.9. The gathering of the saints to Christ won't occur until the later 7th trumpet, so no rapture until the 7th trumpet which its events align with the Day of The Lord like Apostles Paul and Peter also taught.

 

With the wilderness idea in Rev.12, I agree that first mention is about the first half of Daniel's final "one week", but it's about being under protection from deception mainly. The later reference to the waters as a flood out of the serpent's 'mouth' represent lies that cause deception upon the deceived, which is about the latter half of Daniel's final "one week" (6th trumpet timing). So both the first 1260 and the latter 1260 days are being covered by that protection idea in Rev.12.

 

When the 6th seal is opened, the world will be in total darkness, no sun, no moon, no stars.  This was the first sign Jesus gave as to His coming, and the lesson from the fig tree is, that the time is near, right at the door.  The final events of the 6th and 7th judgements will happen right on top of each other, with the 7th trumpet sounding in the midst of the 6th bowl, as the scripture shows above.  These final events take place very quickly, in a very specific hour of a very specific day.  The same day and hour Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24.

 

You referring to the 6th Seal with that sun and moon and timely figs? Look at the Book of Joel example of that, it's different. Are you aware of what that casting down like timely figs is a metaphor for? It refers to the winter fig which grows in the winter and then falls off in the spring; it's an early fig. That's a parallel to the event of Rev.12:7 forward when Satan with his angels are cast down to the earth for the tribulation timing. Since the coming Antichrist is given power to work great signs, wonders, and miracles, and is coming to play Jesus, do you think he will mimic some of that when he comes? I do.

 

 

 

As far as you attaching the locust army to the army spoken of after the 6th trumpet.  Can you please explain in any reasonable fashion how you see an army that you say is the enemy as being "priestly".  Which is precisely what the reference to jacinth infers, as you correctly pointed out.  This to me is a no-brainer, those who take part in the first resurrection are said to be this.

 

Revelation 20:⁶ Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

 

The suggestion that the word "priestly" could be applied to the wicked does not compute with me.  Coupled with the fact that the locust army only has five months.  I look forward to your response, God bless you.

 

When the pseudo-Christ shows up in Jerusalem to play Christ, what do you think deceived Christian pastors will be saying to their flocks? Have you not read Paul's warning in 2 Cor.11 how Satan himself is disguised ("transformed" in KJV, but means 'disguised' in the Greek) as an angel of light, and his ministers as the ministers of righteousness? That's the kind of locust army that is being loosed on that 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period. Even in the first part of Rev.9, we were to pick up on how the locusts have hair like women in conjunction with teeth like lions, and CROWNS like gold on their heads, etc. The hair like women idea represents soothsaying, i.e., smooth talkers to deceive.

 

Many may not like to hear this, but when the pseudo-Christ shows us, the majority of Churches will be deceived into thinking that is our Lord Jesus Christ. That's actually what the great falling away Paul mentioned in conjunction with the coming "man of sin" sitting in the temple of God in Jerusalem is about. That's the purpose of a lot of today's Christian Churches joining with, and supporting the orthodox unbelieving Jews with building another temple in Jerusalem. The majority of Christian brethren will be deceived by all that, even some of our own household according to what our Lord Jesus said. What I look forward to, is seeing how that pseudo-Christ is going to pull off a secret rapture, because that is exactly the doctrine which his hosts are preparing for the deceived today. Or it could be the pseudo-Christ himself will say those pastors were lying and they will be desolated, so as to get the deceived congregation's trust more towards the orthodox Jew's view. The plan of Satan's host is to destroy Christianity and all other faiths except what the orthodox Jews believe. The fact that building another temple in Jerusalem, which many Christian congregations support, involves starting up the Old Covenant worship and sacrifices again, shows Satan's host already have many of those Christian congregations in their fold today.

 

 

 

 

[wingnut-]

 

Wingnut, my bro, this is happy!!  

 

 

God Bless you!

 

 

Amen kp, what a wonderful and glorious day it will be.  God bless you. 

[KPaulG]

 

 

Wingnut, my bro, this is happy!!  

 

 

God Bless you!

 

 

Amen kp, what a wonderful and glorious day it will be.  God bless you. 

 

God Bless you, too my brother in Christ.

[Omegaman 3.0]

Sorry for this, but there was an issue with the server regarding that first time I posted this topic. I started this thread (even though it might say that is was started by "Guest") as a way to repair the problem, all the posts from the former thread location, have been transferred here, above this post. Posts from this this point on (August 3rd, 2016) are newly added.

[ENOCH2010]

Omega forgive me for bringing this thread back to the top, but it appears we have another pre-triber that has the rapture figured out. Here ya go Revelation Man have at it.

[Omegaman 3.0]

Seeing that this thread is possibly about ti be resurrected, let me point out that the original post in the thread, spells out the purpose, and has specific parameters in mind. I suggest, that those who participate (if any), read the original post and then stick to those guildlines. The idea is specically about what the Bible says about certain aspects of eschatological theory.

It is not about wild speculations, and presumtion not warranted by scripture itself. Please keep this in mind when you post as post that go off topic, may end up being deleted. There are plenty of threads where anyone can make arguments for their pet theories, this one is an opportunity to show from scripture, why those theories should be believed. Again I stress, read the OP, perhaps print in on a shett of paper and have it in front of you to refer to, to check if you are keeping the topic in mind.

Similarly, anyone who chooses to disagree with another's opinion, should also keep in mind, what the scripture says. The OP is at: