Jesus' Return II

[wingnut-]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

All the scriptures say that Christ comes with his angels.  Not with his saints.  I used to see that he comes with his saints, and they stay in the air with him whilst he finishes off the nations, but going back over all the scriptures, it does not mention the saints with him.  If you can find any scriptures please show me.

 

Hello sister,

Sorry to interject but I have some for you in regards to this.

 

Zechariah 14: 5 And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

 

God bless

[Daniel 11:36]

Zechariah 14:5

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, inchrist said:

I think youre confusing youre own tactics to watp scripture....prime example believing people have seen their "mansions"

Thers is no difference between the image of the 5th seal to this group of multitudes.

Further the language is against you, John does not see them come up instantly all together at once but over a period of time

 

 

Rev 6^:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev 7:⁹ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

¹⁰ And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Notice carefully that in verse 6:9 above, we find the world SLAIN.

Notice carefully that in verses 7:9, 10, and 14, there is no "slain" or even anything similar to it in meaning.

It is very clear that this group too large to number has not been slain and are not martyrs.

Now, let's use the old noggin for something else that a hat rack. John has already mentioned a very large number of 200,000,000. He could have used a thousand million. In Genesis I find "thousands of millions." John also wrote, " ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands."

Yet for this crowd, God tells us it is too large to number.  Maybe He just wanted to save John writing so many zeros. How can you imagine that the Beast will kill so vast a number? I can imagine hundreds of millions. I cannot imagine more. But even it it were thousands of millions, that is still recorded in the bible. No, this crowd is NOT martyrs; it is the raptured church.  Only the raptured church will have such a great number.

I will admit, I did not at first understand this crowd as the raptured church. But I was reading Rosenthal and Van Kampen, their books on prewrath, and they were sure this crowd was the raptured church. So I began to look at it and see the possibilities. I was bugged by "out of great tribulation" until I noticed that John used these two words to one of the churches in existence at that time, and in reference to people alive at that time. Therefore I knew John could use these two words here and NOT mean those days of GT that Jesus spoke of.  When we take these facts with the fact that John has not yet even started the 70th week, I was convinced.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, wingnut- said:

 

Hello sister,

Sorry to interject but I have some for you in regards to this.

 

Zechariah 14: 5 And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

 

God bless

Good scripture!

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Sister said:

......then...,.. judgement is given to the saints........they collect their "reward" in other words.

Their reward is Everlasting life.  The resurrection of their bodies, and the quickening.

I disagree. The moment we were born again we entered everlasting life.

The reward will probably be how many cities we will judge.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, inchrist said:

Ok then Christ doesnt have to judge anything, let just take the word judge out

The time has come for the dead,

you're still snookered

Why is it you are so quick to say the time has come to judge the dead - RIGHT THEN - in Chapter 11, when you don't believe that for the marriage and supper? It seems you are not being consistent.  I understand, you do have to force things a little to fit your theory.

[iamlamad]

On 6/26/2017 at 9:19 AM, inchrist said:

When scripture tells you 9 times, 9 times where the wrath of God begins being so clear , it staggers beyond human comprehension to understand how anyone could be so blind to conclude it starts at the opening of the 7th seal.

How about John wrote it, and the signs prove it?  All those 9 times are telling is God is still angry.

How can you imagine God will kill 1/3 of earth's population without any anger? Why not just believe what is written? His wrath begins at the 6th seal and continues on throughout the entire week, perhaps getting worse at the time of the vials.

But, there is MORE proof. Read Joel chapter 1 about the DAY: it tells us the cattle are perplexed because they have no pasture: the sheep too. The grass has all been burned up. Does this not agree with the first trumpet judgment? Is it not very likely that it is a nuclear exchange? After all, at the 3rd angel and trumpet gives us a very strong hint that the fresh water is poisoned by nukes. Did you know that at Chernobyl there is an angel statue sounding a trumpet? They knew it was the 3rd Angel.

It is OK if you don't see it. It is not a salvation issue.

By the way, if you were this consistent on the timing of the marriage and supper, you would become pretrib.

Edited June 27, 2017 by iamlamad

[HAZARD]

17 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You are miles off from the intent of the Author. The great wh*re babylon is in reference to JERUSALEM during the time the Beast and False Prophet are deceiving the entire world from that city. Catholicism cannot even come close to the deception that will come during that time from the Beast and False prophet.

 

 Sorry, Jerusalem is not Mystery Babylon, never was, never will be. The rcc will be in kahoots with the antichrist in some way or another during the tribulation. She's been leading people to the pits of hell since the days of Nimrod.

 

The city Babylon was built by Nimrod, the mighty hunter (Gen. 10:8-10). It was the seat of the first great apostasy against God after the flood. Here the Babylonian Cult was invented by Nimrod and his Queen, Semiramis. It was a system claiming the highest wisdom and ability to reveal the most divine secrets. This cult was characterized by the word "Mystery" because of its mysteries. Beside confessing to the priests at admission to this cult, one was compelled to drink of "mysterious beverages," which says Salvert (Des Sciences Occultes, Page 259) was indespensible on the part of those who saught initation into these mysteries.

 

The "mysterious beverages' were composed of wine, honey, water, and flour. They were always of an intoxicating nature, and untill the aspirants had come under the influence of it and had their understanding dimmed they were not prepared for what they were to see and hear. The method was to introduce privately, little by little, information under seal of secrecy and sanction of oath that would be impossible to reveal otherwise.

 

This has been the policy of the Roman Church and the secret of the power of the priests over the lives of men whom they could expose to the world for their sins that have been confessed to them. Once admitted, men were no longer Babylonians, Assyrians, or Egyptians, but were members of a mystical brotherhood, over whom was placed a Supreme Pontif or High Priest whos word was final in all things in thelives of the brotherhood regardless of the country in which they lived. The ostensible objects of worship were the Supreme Father, the Incarnate Female or Queen of Heaven, and her Son. The last two were only objects of worship, as the Supreme Father was said not to interfere with mortal affaires (Nimrod 111, Page 239).

 

This system is believed to have come from fallen angels and demons. The object of the cult was to rule the world by these dogmas. Much more can be said but to simplify things, Damasus, Bishop of the Christian Church at Rome, was elected to the office of Supreme Pontif. He had been bishop for twelve years, having been made suchin 366 A. D. through influence of the monks of Mount Carmel, a college of the Babylonian religion originally founded by the priests of Jezebel and continued to this day in connection with Rome. So, in 378 A. D., the babylonian system of religion became part of Christendom, for the bishop of Rome, who later became the supreme head of the organized church, was already Supreme Pontiff of the Babylonian Order. All the teachings of pagan Babylon and Rome were gradually interspersed into the Christian religious organization. Soon after Damasus was made Supreme Pontiff, the rites of Babylon began to come to the front. The worship of the Roman Church became babylonish, and under him, the heathen temples were restored and beautified and the rituals established. Thus, the currupt religious system under the figure of a woman with a golden cup in her hand, making all nations drunk with her fornication, is called by God "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT."

The first practice that grew up after this union was the introduction of the worship of the saints, especially of the virgin Mary. Thousands of pagans entered the church in those days who were accustomed to worshiping the gods of towns and places, who were not thoroughly Christianized. The veneration of saints and holy men became a worship. Saints were considered lesser dieties, whos intercession availed with God. Places connected with the lives of holy men were considered sacred and pilgrimages were started. Relics or bones of saints were believed to have miraculous power. The worship of the virgin Mary was set up in 381 A. D., three years after Damasus became bead of the Babylonian Cult.

Just as the Babylonian cult worshiped the "Queen of Heaven and her Son" and did not worship the Supreme Father because he simply did not interfere with mortal affairs, so the Roman Chrurch has a similar worship in that they worship Mary as the mother of God and her Son. The image of mother and child was an object of worship in Babylon long before Christ was born. From Babylon it spread to the ends of the Earth. The original mother was Semiramis, the beautiful queen of Nimrod, who was a paragon of unbridled lust and licentiousness.

In the "mysteries," which she had the chief part in forming, she was worshiped as Rhea (Chronicon Paschal, Volume 1, Page 65), the great "Mother of the God's" with such atrocious rites as identified her with Venus, the mother of all impurity. She raised Babylon, where she reigned to eminence among the nations as the great seat idolatry and consecrated prostetution (Hesiod, Theogonia, Volume 36, Page 435). The apocalyptic emblem of the harlot with cup in hand was one of idolatry derived from ancient Babylon, as they were exhibited in Greece, for thus the Greek Venus was originally represented (Herodotus, Historia, Book 1, cap. 199, Page 92).

Ironicilly the Roman Church has taken this as her emblem. In 1825 a medal was struck bearing the image of Pope Leo X11 on one side and on the other side Rome symbolized by a woman with a cross in her left hand and a cup in her right hand and a legend around her "Sedet Super Universum"; that is, "The whole world is her seat."

From this original practice, practically all nations have copied a similar worship, but in each land the same figure is carried out under different names. In Egypt the mother and child are known as Isis and Osiris; in India, Isi and Iswara; in Eastern Asia, Cybel and Deoius; in pagan Rome, Fortuna and Jupiter-puer; In Greece, Ceres or as Irene with Plutus in arms, etc. In Thibet, China, and Japan the Jesuits were suprised to find the counterpart of the madonna (the Italian name for virgin) and her child as devoutly worshiped as in Rome itself. Shing Moo, the mother of China, is there represented with child in her arms and a glory around her exactly as if a Roman artist had paintd her. Where did these nations get this common worship if not from Babylon before the dispersion by God in the days of Nimrod (Gen. 11). Thus the worship of Mary in connection with her Son is of Babylonian origin for there is no mention of such worshipin Scripture.

[HAZARD]

17 hours ago, iamlamad said:

This is really not true. The "whore" is about Jerusalem, but ONLY during the time the Beast and False Prophet are deceiving the ENTIRE WORLD from that city.  And the ten kings will receive power for one hour. And that hour will be VERY late in the last half of the week.

The great whore is not Jerusalem, never was, never will be. And, the Antichrist will only have power and rule over the revised old Roman Empire. The rest of the world may be affected in some ways but the antichrist will not rule America, Australia or any country outside the Old Roman Empire territory.

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎25‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 4:25 PM, fixerupper said:

So God is going to remove Christians and kill people in the process?  How counter productive.  Most sensesible people would call that a terror attack.  
I don't think you understand the purpose of God in saving people. You're trying to say that the rapture is God's purpose for saving people and that's just way off the mark.  You people completely disregard good exegesis and have fallen for the most widely held, deceitful, fabricated false doctrine that has ever entered the Church.  Pre-trib contradictions and fabrications are endless.  

they have been watching too many fantasy films, where the 'good guys' get lifted off from the edge of 'hell',  by helicopter , after they have murdered everyone . 

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by Thallasa