Help with Revelation 12:17

[JoeCanada]

Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus

The apostle John was on the Isle of Patmos when he wrote Revelations. He stated in the opening verse that he “bare record of the word of God and of the testimony of Jesus Christ”….Rev 1: 1-2

The souls under the altar were “slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held”…Rev 6:9

In Rev 12:17… “ and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her  seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”

Here are other scriptures which cite the “word of God and the testimonies’

Psalm 119:31

I cling to Your testimonies; O LORD, do not put me to shame!

Psalm 119:111

I have inherited Your testimonies forever, For they are the joy of my heart.

Revelation 19:10

Then I fell at his feet to worship him But he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Exodus 25:21

"You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the testimony which I will give to you.

Exodus 26:34

"You shall put the mercy seat on the ark of the testimony in the holy of holies.

Exodus 40:20

Then he took the testimony and put it into the ark, and attached the poles to the ark, and put the mercy seat on top of the ark

Exodus 30:6

"You shall put this altar in front of the veil that is near the ark of the testimony, in front of the mercy seat that is over the ark of the testimony, where I will meet with you.

Deuteronomy 6:17

"You should diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and His testimonies and His statutes which He has commanded you.

1 Kings 2:3

"Keep the charge of the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, to keep His statutes, His commandments, His ordinances, and His testimonies, according to what is written in the Law of Moses, that you may succeed in all that you do and wherever you turn,

Psalm 25:10

All the paths of the LORD are lovingkindness and truth To those who keep His covenant and His testimonies.

So what is……”keeping the word of God, have the Word of God, Hold the word of God”…….. and also “the testimony of Jesus Christ”

It seems to be very significant in these last days.

“….which keep the commandments of God…..” So, which commandments is scripture talking about? I’ve heard many Christians claim that the commandments were done away with, that they were nailed to the cross.

How can this be if  In Rev 12:17… “ and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her  seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”

The remnant of her seed is the church is it not?.........  All born again believers?

Certainly Israel, the Jewish people, who escape into the wilderness, they don’t have  “the testimony of Jesus Christ”

And what is meant by....."the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

 

[Last Daze]

13 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

And what is meant by....."the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

The first prophecy, in the Garden of Eden, spoke of the seed of the woman that would best the serpent.  It seems that central to all prophecies is the restoration that is fulfilled in Christ, spiritual and natural.

[WilliamL]

22 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

“….which keep the commandments of God…..” So, which commandments is scripture talking about? I’ve heard many Christians claim that the commandments were done away with, that they were nailed to the cross.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

This refers to the law of Moses, which included the 10 Commandments, but added other statutes and ordinances. Jesus' affirmed God's 10 Commandments:

Matt. 19:17 ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19  Honour thy father and [thy] mother...

28 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

How can this be if  In Rev 12:17… “ and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her  seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”

The remnant of her seed is the church is it not?.........  All born again believers?

Certainly Israel, the Jewish people, who escape into the wilderness, they don’t have  “the testimony of Jesus Christ”

But they will have the testimony of Jesus after they have seen Him coming in the clouds:

Zech 12:10 ...they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

Rom. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

[Revelation Man]

46 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus

The apostle John was on the Isle of Patmos when he wrote Revelations. He stated in the opening verse that he “bare record of the word of God and of the testimony of Jesus Christ”….Rev 1: 1-2

The souls under the altar were “slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held”…Rev 6:9

In Rev 12:17… “ and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her  seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”

Here are other scriptures which cite the “word of God and the testimonies’

Psalm 119:31

I cling to Your testimonies; O LORD, do not put me to shame!

Psalm 119:111

I have inherited Your testimonies forever, For they are the joy of my heart.

Revelation 19:10

Then I fell at his feet to worship him But he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Exodus 25:21

"You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the testimony which I will give to you.

Exodus 26:34

"You shall put the mercy seat on the ark of the testimony in the holy of holies.

Exodus 40:20

Then he took the testimony and put it into the ark, and attached the poles to the ark, and put the mercy seat on top of the ark

Exodus 30:6

"You shall put this altar in front of the veil that is near the ark of the testimony, in front of the mercy seat that is over the ark of the testimony, where I will meet with you.

Deuteronomy 6:17

"You should diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and His testimonies and His statutes which He has commanded you.

1 Kings 2:3

"Keep the charge of the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, to keep His statutes, His commandments, His ordinances, and His testimonies, according to what is written in the Law of Moses, that you may succeed in all that you do and wherever you turn,

Psalm 25:10

All the paths of the LORD are lovingkindness and truth To those who keep His covenant and His testimonies.

So what is……”keeping the word of God, have the Word of God, Hold the word of God”…….. and also “the testimony of Jesus Christ”

It seems to be very significant in these last days.

“….which keep the commandments of God…..” So, which commandments is scripture talking about? I’ve heard many Christians claim that the commandments were done away with, that they were nailed to the cross.

How can this be if  In Rev 12:17… “ and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her  seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”

The remnant of her seed is the church is it not?.........  All born again believers?

Certainly Israel, the Jewish people, who escape into the wilderness, they don’t have  “the testimony of Jesus Christ”

And what is meant by....."the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

 

The REMNANT (Small part that's left) of her SEED (Church) means exactly what it says.  The Rapture has come to pass and from that point on all men who come unto Christ will be in the Body of Christ but as a REMNANT, but the Bride is in Heaven, thus they are the 5 Virgins left out of the Marriage, the doors were closed on them because they did not have enough OIL (Holy Spirit) in them. They thus must repent, and in all likelihood lay down their lives for Christ Jesus. Thus they are the Saints under the Alter at the 5th Seal. 

The Jews in Petra repented and are by now Messianic Jews. 

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus

The apostle John was on the Isle of Patmos when he wrote Revelations. He stated in the opening verse that he “bare record of the word of God and of the testimony of Jesus Christ”….Rev 1: 1-2

The souls under the altar were “slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held”…Rev 6:9

In Rev 12:17… “ and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her  seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”

 

.....

How can this be if  In Rev 12:17… “ and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her  seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”

The remnant of her seed is the church is it not?.........  All born again believers?

Certainly Israel, the Jewish people, who escape into the wilderness, they don’t have  “the testimony of Jesus Christ”

And what is meant by....."the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

 

Hi JoeCanada,

Very good questions there bro. Now we as the Body of Christ can get very `us` focused,` as though we are the centre of the universe if you know what I mean. We are certainly not the centre of God`s word, but the Lord is, as we both would agree I think.

When I return from our Big Aussie Adventure around Australia, I hope to do a series on my blog on the Body of Christ. People, I realise do not have a full understanding of what it means to be in the Body of Christ. We are called out ones from the nations and from Israel, we are a heavenly group. However God still has His purpose for the Nations and for Israel. They will have their place under the Lord`s authority in God`s great kingdom - from the third heaven down to the earth. All have been created by the Lord and each realm will be under His rule.

So...the Body of Christ will have gone to its setting in the third heaven, ruling with Christ. Then Israel and the nations are left. The `woman` is Israel (described in detail) and her remnant are those Israeli during the tribulation. They are an earthly nation and as such `keep the commandments` of God for righteous living. The `testimony of Jesus,` is the good news that He is their coming Messiah. The two witnesses, (Moses & Elijah) plus the 144,00 Jews sent forth, will be speaking of the coming rule of Messiah on the earth. This is the promised rule that Israel has been looking for all these years. They are an earthly nation with an earthly inheritance.

Also the `testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy,` refers to true prophecy being of and about Him and NOT fortune telling, which has been propagated over the past few years.

regards, Marilyn. 

 

 

[Adstar]

13 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus

The apostle John was on the Isle of Patmos when he wrote Revelations. He stated in the opening verse that he “bare record of the word of God and of the testimony of Jesus Christ”….Rev 1: 1-2

The souls under the altar were “slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held”…Rev 6:9

In Rev 12:17… “ and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her  seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”

Here are other scriptures which cite the “word of God and the testimonies’

Psalm 119:31

I cling to Your testimonies; O LORD, do not put me to shame!

Psalm 119:111

I have inherited Your testimonies forever, For they are the joy of my heart.

Revelation 19:10

Then I fell at his feet to worship him But he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Exodus 25:21

"You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the testimony which I will give to you.

Exodus 26:34

"You shall put the mercy seat on the ark of the testimony in the holy of holies.

Exodus 40:20

Then he took the testimony and put it into the ark, and attached the poles to the ark, and put the mercy seat on top of the ark

Exodus 30:6

"You shall put this altar in front of the veil that is near the ark of the testimony, in front of the mercy seat that is over the ark of the testimony, where I will meet with you.

Deuteronomy 6:17

"You should diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and His testimonies and His statutes which He has commanded you.

1 Kings 2:3

"Keep the charge of the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, to keep His statutes, His commandments, His ordinances, and His testimonies, according to what is written in the Law of Moses, that you may succeed in all that you do and wherever you turn,

Psalm 25:10

All the paths of the LORD are lovingkindness and truth To those who keep His covenant and His testimonies.

So what is……”keeping the word of God, have the Word of God, Hold the word of God”…….. and also “the testimony of Jesus Christ”

It seems to be very significant in these last days.

“….which keep the commandments of God…..” So, which commandments is scripture talking about? I’ve heard many Christians claim that the commandments were done away with, that they were nailed to the cross.

How can this be if  In Rev 12:17… “ and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her  seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”

The remnant of her seed is the church is it not?.........  All born again believers?

Certainly Israel, the Jewish people, who escape into the wilderness, they don’t have  “the testimony of Jesus Christ”

And what is meant by....."the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

 

His commandment is as follows...

1 John 3: KJV

21 "Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. {22} And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. {23} And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. {24} And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."

So those in the scripture who where under the altar are those who believed on the Name of His Son Jesus Christ and loved their neighbor..

 

 

 

[R. Hartono]

On 10/10/2018 at 12:17 AM, JoeCanada said:

Certainly Israel, the Jewish people, who escape into the wilderness, they don’t have  “the testimony of Jesus Christ”

And what is meant by....."the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

 

It means all prophecy is based on Jesus Christ.

 

[ARGOSY]

The manchild is Jesus

The woman is Israel, who gives birth to Jesus (the woman with 12 stars reminds us of the birth of Israel, 12 sons becoming 12 tribes, and Joseph's dream of himself and his brothers as the 12 stars)

Jesus is the offspring of Israel, the manchild, the church is the "rest of her offspring"

The church overcomes Satan through the gospel, the end will not come until the gospel is preached to all nations. Satan is therefore currently in an indefinite period. But when the church overcomes through our testimony Satan falls, then Satan "knows that his time is short". The definite 1260 day period starts at that point. The woman is kept safe through that final 3.5 years, but the church is not, as confirmed be Rev 13, where the beast reigns for 42 months and persecutes the church. This is the same final 3.5 years in both cases, and so the object of persecution is the same in both cases, the church.

 

[iamlamad]

On 10/23/2018 at 9:07 AM, ARGOSY said:

The manchild is Jesus

The woman is Israel, who gives birth to Jesus (the woman with 12 stars reminds us of the birth of Israel, 12 sons becoming 12 tribes, and Joseph's dream of himself and his brothers as the 12 stars)

Jesus is the offspring of Israel, the manchild, the church is the "rest of her offspring"

The church overcomes Satan through the gospel, the end will not come until the gospel is preached to all nations. Satan is therefore currently in an indefinite period. But when the church overcomes through our testimony Satan falls, then Satan "knows that his time is short". The definite 1260 day period starts at that point. The woman is kept safe through that final 3.5 years, but the church is not, as confirmed be Rev 13, where the beast reigns for 42 months and persecutes the church. This is the same final 3.5 years in both cases, and so the object of persecution is the same in both cases, the church.

 

Close. It will be the 7th trumpet that tells Michael to go to war with Satan. That is when the 6000 years of man's rule on earth is finished, as in Adam's 6000 year lease will expire. That is when Satan is cast down. He has no more legal hold to earth. You are right, the 1260 last days begins at the 7th trumpet that marks the midpoint.

[iamlamad]

On 10/10/2018 at 1:28 AM, Adstar said:

His commandment is as follows...

1 John 3: KJV

21 "Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. {22} And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. {23} And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. {24} And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."

So those in the scripture who where under the altar are those who believed on the Name of His Son Jesus Christ and loved their neighbor..

 

 

 

Those under the altar at the 5th seal are church age martyrs. Plain and simple. Stephen was one of those.