Who is Resurrected, and When?

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Oh, no, I understand about the deceitfulness of the RCC and how they subjugated the general populace by keeping them in the dark.

That's my point, we have to look at the First Century Church leaders writings, and then we must skip over much of the RCC and Church pf England period, they became dictatorial tyrants. 

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

We're not apart from the Jews who believe, BUT we're also not expecting the Jews to become a part of the Church, particularly the ORGANIZED Church!

The Jews will come to know Christ as their Messiah, bit only during the 70th week. The testimony we give NOW will help lead them unto God then, as well as Elijah and I think Moses showing up (the Two-witnesses).

6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Again, I believe you're confusing "Rapture" with "Resurrection!" Not only are the two NOT synonymous, but the Rapture is not superior over the Resurrection! Please name ONE instance where Paul wrote about the "Rapture." Then, name ONE instance where Yeshua` ("Jesus") wrote about the "Rapture!"

Nope I disagree here brother, the two happen at the same time as per the Dead in Christ. I think you are confusing the ACTION that is the Rapture. The word Rapio means to be taken by force or snatched. Jesus was both Resurrected AND taken by force to Heaven (He ascended). Thus at the time of the Pre Trb Rapture, the Dead in Christ will be both Resurrected and Raptured by force (Rapio) to Heaven. I mean, Jesus was "Resurrected" then walked around, talked unto Mary etc. etc. then went to Heaven (Rapio/Harpazoed), but at the Rapture (or when we are TAKEN BY FORCE) we are CHANGED (we die and our spirits are TAKEN) in a flash, and the Dead in Christ are Resurrected AND taken to Heaven BY FORCE. 

Paul in 2 Thess. 2:1-7, in 1 Thess. 4:13-18, in 1 Cor. 15:40-52.

Jesus in many places, but one has to understand it. In Matthew 24:36-51, In Rev. 4:1, in Rev. 19 we see the Church in Heaven while the Beast is still on earth. etc.

One has to understand TIMING, if I told you about an event I foreknew we would all be at in a few days, and I knew the future, then I started talking about that event happening when there was snow on the ground, (but gave no date) when the trees had no leaves, when bowl games were being played on TV, and when I took back many gifts it would be apparent that EVENT was right around Christmas time. One HAS to be able to put the scriptures ALL TOGETHER to form a Holy Spirit THREAD that gives us all of this information by weaving it together. That is why the Pharisees mussed Jesus. He told them there will be NO OBVIOUS SIGN for this generation, look in the scriptures, they talk about me !! But these learned men could not ADD IT ALL UP !! So, if OME MAN like Daniel did in Daniel 11, gives a detailed account, that is awesome, but if its given by 10 men, Prophets, and we have to put it all together, that SIGNIFIES this is of God, not men. The Rapture has to be ADDED UP, the TIMING can be no other. I can't explain it to you brother, you have to look for the clues and ADD IT ALL UP. The Pharisees could not add up the obvious, they already knew better. They KNEW the Messiah was going to come as a "Conqueror". Yes, but he first had to come as a "Suffering Servant". Amen. 

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

"It's as clear as mud," you mean. Revelation 4:1 (not 4) was written specifically to JOHN!

No, Rev. 4:1 is the Rapture of us but Rev. 4:4 is WE the Church in Heaven. The 24 Elders is a code for the Church who are Kings and Priests as Rev. 1:6 and Rev. 5:10 both say. In 1 Chronicles 24 we are told of the 24 Orders of the Priesthood. Here via the "24 Elders" we are told that they have on CROWNS, White Raiment and sit amidst God's THRONES. In Rev. 2:10 those church age saints who OVERCOME are promised Crowns of Gold, then in Rev. 3:5 they (WE) are promised White Raiment (Robes) and in Rev. 3:21 we are promised to sit amidst God's THRONE. In Rev. 4:4 that is indeed The Church of Jesus Christ. Looking further in Rev. 5:9 we see that we are told we came put of ALL NATIONS, and that were are indeed REDEEMED by the blood of the Lamb. That is the Raptured Church my brother.

And if you slow down and quit doing what the Pharisees did (SMILE) by missing half the signs, ten you can see as I pointed out Jesus blows the Trumpet or sounds as a Trump in Rev. 4:1 signifying that he is ENDING the Harvest but we have to slow down and not be too busy to see what God is saying. Of course John saw his Future Rapture, JUST AFTER the Church Age, that is why he was told THESE THINGS are the HEREAFTER (After the Church Age........its so obvious). That what you guys have to say to keep up the old understanding, but it doesn't work. None of the TIMINGS FIT !! 

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

This is why it is so dangerous to get rid of the King James Version (the Authorized Version)! The English of 1611 still made a difference between the 2nd-person singular and the 2nd-person plural! So, when we read,

Revelation 4:1 (KJV)

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, 

"(THOU) Come up hither, and I will shew THEE things which must be hereafter."

The Greek of this sentence is ...

"ANABA hoode, kai deixoo SOI ha dei genesthai meta tauta."

Both "Anaba" and "soi" are 2nd-person SINGULAR words! Yeshua` was speaking ONLY to Yochanan ("John")..

This is a HORRIBLE ARGUMENT, not only is THOU added, but all this means nothing to me, all this nit picking thee's and thou's and ye here and and there and adverbs vs. verbs is NOT how you study the bible brother, its a BIG PICTURE abstract puzzle that needs to be conjoined, you can't simplify it to thee and thou. God can Prophesy to ONE MAN and still show him a picture of a future event that has many. See Rev. 7:9-17 those who the Raptured Saints and John talks to them and asks questions. Put it all together man, don't be like a Pharisees and see only the coming of the Conquering King. When it gets down to stuff like thus I (truthfully) don't take this kind of thinking serious. Instead  of seeing what is there you are going to the nth degree to try and make a point stand, which has no legs. God can be talking to John about HIS RAPTURE and still be showing him THE RAPTURE. Please do not go there. Its a bad argument. 

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Regarding Revelation 5:9-10 says NOTHING about a Rapture! Here's the context:

 

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

How do you get the Rapture out of that without speculation?

Easy, we see that.......these people come out of EVERY NATION, TRIBE on Earth, and they they are REDEEMED by the blood and that they are made Kings and Priests. (ADD IT UP)

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

ADD IT UP

Rev. 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

ADD IT UP

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;..........

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation {The Church Age tribulation period}, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

These all MATCH for a reason, this is the Raptured Church in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are broken. We can't have preconceived ideas that trump the facts. God is SHOUTING that these are my kings and priests who came out of ALL NATIONS(Church), and are Washed in the blood of my son Jesus. They sit at my throne, they have on CROWNS and White Robes. 

So, how do we get the Church in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened without a Rapture !!! ADD IT ALL UP !!

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

And, Revelation 19 is the ATTACK of the Messiah upon those who threaten the Land and the People of Israel! It's a mistake to think anything more about this passage!

Listen to it again with a clear mind:

Verse 7 pins the TIMING DOWN.  

Rev. 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife(CHURCH) hath made herself ready.

8 And to her (Church) was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

ADD IT UP

Rev. 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

ADD IT ALL UP

Rev. 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army(Jesus' CHURCH).

So, how can we Marry the Lamb in Heaven the RETURN to earth to fight the Beast if we were not Raptured Pre Trib? 

So, you wonder how we get this, we use the scriptures to ADD UP ALL of the TIMING EVENTS my brother. 

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

It's not "Heaven"; it's "the heaven," "the sky!" This is talking about a messenger standing on the top of a mountain with his back to the sun; he was standing in the morning sunlight!

No, we are IN HEVAEN as Rev. 4:4,  5:9:10 and 7:9-17 shows, we then RETURN with Jesus on White Horses in Rev. 19 and Armageddon is the Marriage Supper. Our Feast is the Wicked getting wiped out.

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

My point was that the Greek words harpagee and harpagenta (from harpazoo) in
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 don't include the word "up" nor do they even IMPLY "up!" Why must you include the words "UP INTO Heaven?" or "TO Heaven"? These are LEADING words! That is, they are said to give people the impression that is what was taught in these verses, even though THE VERSES NEVER ACTUALLY SAY THAT! In fact, if one can see that they do NOT say that at all, then they are MISLEADING words!

ADD IT ALL UP.......If you want to us Down, or East and West it matters not to me, but we are going to Heaven to Marry Jesus. You are trying to use all of these semantics that I truthfully ignore, the scriptures allow us to ADD IT ALL UP, but you can't add anything up by thinking small ball as in up, down, thee ye etc. etc. ADD IT ALL UP brother. 

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

We haven't even BEGUN to "preach the Gospel," "unto the ends of the earth!" Let me explain: The Gospel that must be brought to the "ends of the earth" is found in Matthew 24:14:

This is an erroneous thinking, TV has made the Gospel go to the ends of all the earth, don't kid yourself, the Gospel of Jess has indeed been heard by ALL THE WORLD. Pat Robertson 25 plus years ago had his channel gong int Arab nations because he had a deal with the NBA to carry their games on his Satellites, this they allows his channel on also via Satellite. This has been going on with other Christian networks for years. Don't think this means is one hermit living deep in the woods never head of Jesus that it will stop Jesus from coming, in Matt. 24 he s speaking about the Gospel going to EVER NATION, it has.

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

That is NOT the "death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ!" It's the "gospel OF THE KINGDOM!" It's the same gospel that Yeshua` Himself heralded back in Mark 1:14-15!

No, the Lord Jesus will rule with an Iron Rod, he will not need anyone spreading the Gospel once he takes over. It is the Gospel of Jesus Christ which gives life. THEN THE END (70th week) Comes.

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

"Yeshua`" doesn't mean "Salvation," as so many claim. It is Hebrew for "He shall save" or "He shall deliver" or "He shall rescue." The actuall translation of verse 10 should be "shall see Him of our God who shall rescue."

WHAT? I have an in depth study that even shows how Isaiah and David were talking about a PERSINIFIED Yeshua. Quibbling about the difference between Salvation and "he will save" or Rescue is just astonishing brother, no wonder you cant get past these roadblocks. I have an in depth report by a guy that is a blessing, why would any Christian argue against Jesus not only meaning what it means but Yeshua in the Old Testament being about Jesus? By the way, it was a Jew who realized this and it astonished him. So, when the Angel came to Mary and told her what to name the child, she would have heard Yeshua or Salvation, he who saves, the Savior, our salvation, makes no difference how you want to pars it to me brother, his name meant he was Israel's Salvation.

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

My point was that the Greek words harpagee and harpagenta (from harpazoo) in
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 don't include the word "up" nor do they even IMPLY "up!" Why must you include the words "UP INTO Heaven?" or "TO Heaven"? These are LEADING words! That is, they are said to give people the impression that is what was taught in these verses, even though THE VERSES NEVER ACTUALLY SAY THAT! In fact, if one can see that they do NOT say that at all, then they are MISLEADING words!

[Revelation Man]

6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Revelation Man.

This is a weak case. It was something formed in the past when it MAY have made sense, but it no longer does. The E.U. is NOT the "10 Horns!" 

When one asks the question, "How many nations are in the E. U.?" one gets,

"In 2004, nine countries were added, two more in 2007, and finally Croatia in 2013 to bring the total to 28. On June 23, 2016, the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU. Nineteen of the EU countries are also part of the Eurozone, a union of countries that have adopted the Euro as their official currency."

You're using OLD NEWS from the 60s to bolster the claim that the E. U. is the organization that are the 10 horns or the 10 toes.

It's not that small anymore. 

Wow, how do you read my posts and not understand my position on this "10 NUMBER". You missed it somewhere down the line and I write about this in every other post.

10 means COMPLETION (have you never seen me write this in about every other post? Go look again) Thus the 10 stand for COMPLETE Divided (Clay and Iron = DIVIDED) Europe coming together as many nations, not 1 and NOT 10, the 10 stands for the Complete Number thereof.

In Rev. 2:10 the Church of Smyrna were told they would have tribulation 10 days (COMPETE Church Age). We have the 10 Commandments which are a stand in for ALL the Laws. We see that the Bride of Christ is 10 and that only 5 will make the Marriage in heaven so half the so called Church will not make the pre trib rapture. 10 is Completion, 7 is Divine Completion, thus the 7 Churches and the 7 Spirits and 7 Eyes simply means God sees all and is everywhere. Thus the 7 Heads and 10 Horns has a unique meaning. 

Now, adding more to this, the 144,00o and the 7000 God has sabed unto Himself and the 1/3 in Zechariah 13:8-9 all are the EXACT SAME NUMBER but how? 

Well, there are 10 million Jews in Israel and 15 million worldwide, so if 1/3 of them are saved that is 3-5 million Jews (I tend to lean to 5 million Jews by the very end they will mostly be mostly living in Israel). So, how can 7000 and 144,000 = 5 Million Jews? Easy

7 (Divine Completion) x 10 (Completion) x 10 x 10 = 7000 or as you can see ALL Israel who repent.

Fulness = 12 and 10 = Completion so 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 144,000 or ALL Israel who repents. 

10 is not 10 in God lingo. If you are looking for 10 you will be looking for the wring thing. 

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

So, now you've graduated the "10 horns" to be the nations of the AGREEMENT, OUTSIDE of the E. U., instead? Talk about "adapting the facts to fit the 'truth!'"

No, I usually do not even use Palestine, so its really 9 nations, that has ZERO to do with the number 10 however via the 10 Horns, that s the E.U. or COMPLETE Europe. You just assumed that was my thinking, read my posts very carefully. 

And, see how your misconception TAGGED me wrongly? 

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

The "Anti-Christ" (which is not a person but a POSITION) is not found in Daniel 9 AT ALL! There are simple, grammatical reasons why this cannot be true. 

Dude, you need to start over.

God Bless

 

[Diaste]

On 6/18/2022 at 4:40 AM, Revelation Man said:

Church just means "body" so Israel was the body God used to give the Prophesies and thus saith the Lord word, and to birth the Christ, then he used the Gentile "body" to take the Gospel unto the whole world for a myriad pf reasons. Israel disobedience of course, but also practicality. The Pax Romanus was the perfect vehicle for the Gospel, one centralized Gov who spoke Greek Koine, thus the citizens of Rome sch as Paul, Peter etc. who paid taxes, could freely take the Gospel unto all citizens of Rome. Once Rome was overcome by the Church (I think the Mortal Wound in Rev. 13 is the Church overcoming the Roman Beast) then the Gospel could be spread worldwide, eventually. So, both are bodies that God used, He has had a different purpose for each. After the Rapture the Kingdom Age will indeed be ushered in. God's calling is without repentance. He just halted it to save the rest of the world and to get Israel to repent. 

Pretty sure the apostles and Paul were all Jews. Only Jews wrote the entire NT. Paul and the apostles were all over Asia and the Middle East. So I don't subscribe to the Gentile body thing. The Jewish people are first and Gentiles as the unnatural branches are grafted into the family of God.

In fact there is no such thing as the Jewish body and the Gentile body, all are one in Christ; the rest are not in Christ whether Jew or Greek, rich or poor, small or great, king or servant. 

 

 

[Retrobyter]

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

...

WHAT? I have an in depth study that even shows how Isaiah and David were talking about a PERSINIFIED Yeshua. Quibbling about the difference between Salvation and "he will save" or Rescue is just astonishing brother, no wonder you cant get past these roadblocks. I have an in depth report by a guy that is a blessing, why would any Christian argue against Jesus not only meaning what it means but Yeshua in the Old Testament being about Jesus? By the way, it was a Jew who realized this and it astonished him. So, when the Angel came to Mary and told her what to name the child, she would have heard Yeshua or Salvation, he who saves, the Savior, our salvation, makes no difference how you want to pars it to me brother, his name meant he was Israel's Salvation.

Shalom, Revelation Man.

Sorry, bro', but this is JUST A MATTER OF HEBREW GRAMMAR! His name is the third-person, mascular, future tense of the verb!

Matthew 1:18-25 (KJV)

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying,

"Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS (Greek: IEESOUS, pronounced "Yay-SOOS'"): for 'HE SHALL SAVE' his people from their sins."

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 

23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel," 

which being interpreted is, "God with us."

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name "JESUS" (Greek: IEESOUS, pronounced "Yay-SOOS'").

[JoeCanada]

On 6/13/2022 at 1:00 PM, Revelation Man said:

God never wants us tp go through suffering,

Rev man, 

Jesus tells us to "pick up our cross and follow Him"..... the cross is not an invitation to a party. 

There are many scriptures that tell us that suffering is part of the Christian walk.

Here are just a few.... 

Phl 1:29

For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf,

Rom 8:17

and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

2Th 1:5

This is [fn]a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering.

2Ti 1:8

Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God,

1Pe 5:9

[fn]So resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your [fn]brothers and sisters who are in the world.

On 6/13/2022 at 1:00 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

[JoeCanada]

On 6/13/2022 at 1:00 PM, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 19, we marry the Lamb then when we return to Earth Armageddon is called the Marriage Feast.

Rev man

The carnage.... the wholesale slaughter of men and women....the blood and guts of mankind and beast.... the smell of rotting corpses.... the stench of death.....  

THIS is the Marriage Feast of the Lamb????????... Ummm, no thank you!

We do NOT have the Marriage Feast with Jesus in the Valley of Armageddon.

It's on HIS Holy mountain.... the place where He builds His Temple that we Feast:

Isa 25:6

Now the LORD of armies will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.

[Revelation Man]

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

Pretty sure the apostles and Paul were all Jews.

They could still be a part of the Church, thus a part of the Bride of Christ, if they so chose to follow Christ. Those who wait until the 70th week to repent will have the Name of the Father on their heads, they are a different bride. 

Rev. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

So, there are Jews who will Marry Christ Jesus (part of the Church body) and there are Jews who will be Married unto God the Father as soon as they repent. The 144,000 is just code for ALL Israel who repents as in 12 = fulness and 10 = completeness thus 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 (144,000) is the exact same God Lingo as I have saved me 7000, which is 7 (Divine Completion) x 10 x 10 x 10. All Jewish or Israeli Saints if old Married the Father also. This is why Danie was told he will be raised at the very end, when the dead Jews are raised, thus why would he need to be raptured to Heaven to marry the Lamb? 

So, its not about who you are per se, it is about what body you are a part of. A German American could be a part of many different types of Unions, as could an Irish American. 

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

Only Jews wrote the entire NT. Paul and the apostles were all over Asia and the Middle East. So I don't subscribe to the Gentile body thing. The Jewish people are first and Gentiles as the unnatural branches are grafted into the family of God.

God used Paul to get the Gentiles to spread the gospel to the whole world BECAUSE Israel lost their mantle, come on, you are supposed to be hip to this brother.  

Rom. 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Romans chapter 9-11 explain this in full detail why Israel "OFFICE" was taken from them, Paul even uses an example of the elder serving the younger in Esau served Jacob. He the tells us in Rom. 11 that this all cane about because of UNBELIEF, and that the Gentiles were grafted in because of Israel's unbelief. He also says that Israel will  EVENTUALLY REPENT when the Time of the Gentiles is come full (Rapture) in Rom 11:25.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery(secret by God's silence/MUO, to shut the mouth), lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part(KEY) is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved:( Israel as a Nation is saved)  as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

So, of course there is a Time of the Gentiles, and it will come full when the Gospel has been spread the world over, then we shall be Raptured (even against some peoples will and desire it seems) to Heaven ending the time of the Gentiles. This is when Israel repents, at the 1335(Two-witnesses), just before the 1290(False Prophet) in time to Flee Judea before the 1260 Anti-Christ event. 

We have different callings, there were two brides, Rachel and Leah. The preferred bride and the one forced. 

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

In fact there is no such thing as the Jewish body and the Gentile body, all are one in Christ; the rest are not in Christ whether Jew or Greek, rich or poor, small or great, king or servant. 

Of course there is different bodies, the Church made up of mostly Gentiles because of course the Jews were only blinded IN PART (as a Nation) not in full, so some Jewish individuals of course could always be a part of the Church, but the Mantle was given unto the Gentiles, that why it is called the Time of the Gentiles. 

The 144,000 have The FATHERS name in their forehead for a reason. They have a different calling, its called the Kingdom Age, that is why they are protected during the 70th week, the 5 Brides who were let behind will not be protected, God needs a Jewish Peoples to set up a Kingdom on David's Throne for 1000 years. All God can do is put these facts out there, He can't make us get it.

[Revelation Man]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Revelation Man.

Sorry, bro', but this is JUST A MATTER OF HEBREW GRAMMAR! His name is the third-person, mascular, future tense of the verb!

I will just post this below, it explains it in detail.

Y E S H U A IN THE TANAKH (The Name of JESUS in the Old Testament) Arthur E. Glass

In dealing with my Jewish brethren for the past many years in Canada, the United States, Argentina and Uruguay. I had one great difficulty, and it was this: My Jewish people would always fling at me this challenging question,

"If Jesus is our Messiah, and the whole Old Testament is about Him, how come His name is never mentioned in It even once?"

   I could never answer it satisfactorily to their way of thinking, and I admit I often wondered why His name was not actually written in the Old Bible.  Oh, yes, I could show them His divine titles  in Isaiah 7:14, 9:6 and Jeremiah 23:5,6, and even the word MESSIAH in several places; but the Hebrew name that would be equal to Jesus, that I could not show.  Then one day the Holy Spirit opened my eyes, and I just shouted.  There was the very NAME, Jesus, found in the Old Testament about 100 times all the way from GENESIS to HABAKKUK!  Yes, the very word - the very NAME - that the angel Gabriel used in Luke 1:31 when he told Mary about the Son she was to have.  "Where do we find that NAME?" you ask.  Here it is, friend: Every time the Old Testament uses the word SALVATION (especially with the Hebrew suffix meaning "my," thy," or "his"), with very few exceptions (when the word is impersonal), it is the very same word, YESHUA (Jesus), used in Matthew 1:21. Let us remember that the angel who spoke to Mary and the angel who spoke to Joseph in his dream did not speak in English, Latin, or Greek, but in Hebrew; and neither were Mary or Joseph slow to grasp the meaning and significance of the NAME of this divine Son and its relation to His character and His work of salvation.  For in the Old Testament all great characters were given names with a specific and significant meaning.

   For example, in Genesis 5:29, Lamech called his son Noah [Comfort], saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and tell of our hands.  In Genesis 10:25, Eber calls his firstborn son, Peleg [Division]; for in his days was the earth divided.  The same is true of Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob (changed to Israel-God's Prince), and all of Jacob's sons (see Genesis, chapters 29-32).  In Exodus 2:10, Pharaoh's daughter called the baby rescued from the Nile, Moses [Drawn-Forth]: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water.  And so we can go on and on to show the deep significance of Hebrew names. 

   Now then, when the angel spoke to Joseph, husband of Mary, the mother of our Lord, this is what he really said and what Joseph actually understood:  And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus [YESHUA (SALVATION)]: for he shall save [or salvage] his people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21).  This text was so forcibly brought home to my soul soon after I was converted over 24 years ago, that I saw the whole plan of the Old Testament in that one ineffable and blessed NAME.

So let us proceed to show clearly the Hebrew name YESHUA
(Greek = Iesus  English = Jesus) in the Old Testament.

   When the great Patriarch Jacob was ready to depart from this world, he by the Holy Spirit was blessing his sons and prophetically foretelling their future experiences in those blessings.  In verse 18 of Genesis 49 he exclaims, I have waited for thy salvation, 0 Lord!   What he really did say and mean was, "To thy YESHUA (Jesus) I am looking, 0 Lord"; or, "In thy YESHUA (Jesus) I am hoping (trusting), Lord!"  That makes much better sense.

   Of course YESHUA (Jesus) was the One in Whom Jacob was trusting to carry him safely over the chilly waters of the river of death. Jacob was a saved man, and did not wait until his dying moments to start trusting in the Lord. He just reminded God that he was at the same time comforting his own soul.

In Psalms 9:14, David bursts forth, I will rejoice in thy salvation.
What he actually did say and mean was, "I will rejoice in (with) thy YESHUA (Jesus)."

   In Psalm 91:14-16 God says, Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high [raise him above circumstances], because he hath known my name.  He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him and honor him.  With long life [eternal life] will I satisfy him, and show him my [YESHUA (Jesus)] salvation.  Of course. That promise is realized in Revelation 22:3, 4: And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it: and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see HIS face. 

   In Isaiah 12:2, 3 we have something wonderful.  Here SALVATION is mentioned three times.  The reader will be much blessed by reading these glorious verses in his Bible, but let me give them as they actually read in the original Hebrew with Jesus as the embodiment and personification of the word SALVATION: Behold, might (or, God the mighty One) is my YESHUA (Jesus-in His pre-incarnation and eternal existence); I will trust and not be afraid:, for JAH-JAHOVAH is my strength and my song; He also is become my YESHUA (Jesus).... And the WORD (Jesus incarnate) became flesh, and dwelt among us. (John 1: 14). ... Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of  YESHUA [Jesus - waters of salvation flowing forth from Golgotha]."

   Something very interesting occurred one spring in St. Louis: I was visiting in the home of our friends, Brother and Mrs. Charles Siegelman, and another Jew was present there. He claimed Jewish orthodoxy for his creed.  Of course the conversation centered around Him Who is the Center of all things -- Jesus.  This good Jewish brother opposed the claims of Yeshua in the Old Testament verbally, and in a friendly fashion, most violently.  His best offensive weapon, he  thought, was to fling at me and at all of us there the well-known challenge: "You can't find the name of 'Jesus' in the Old Testament;" and this he did.

   I did not answer him directly, but asked him to translate for us from my Hebrew Bible, Isaiah 62:11. Being a Hebrew scholar, he did so with utmost ease, rapidly, and correctly; and here is what and how he translated that text verbatim: Behold, Jehovah has proclaimed unto the end of the world. Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold thy YESHUA[ Jesus] cometh; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him.  Just then he crimsoned as he realized what he had done and how he had played into my hands, and he just fairly screamed out, "No!  no! You made me read it 'thy YESHUA' Jesus], Mr. Glass!  You tricked me!" I said, "No, I did not trick you, I just had you read the Word of God for yourself.  Can't you see that here SALVATION is a Person and not a thing or an event?  HE Comes, 'HIS reward is with HIM, and His work before him.'  Then he rushed at his own Old Testament, talking away frantically saying, "I'm sure mine is different from yours." And when he found the passage, he just dropped like a deflated balloon.  His Old Testament was, of course, identical. All he could use as an escape from admitting defeat was to deny the divine inspiration of the book of Isaiah.

   Then skipping on to Habakkuk, we have the greatest demonstration of the NAME "Jesus" in the Old Testament; for here we have both the name as well as the title of the Savior.  In Habakkuk 3:13 we read literally from the original Hebrew: Thou wentest forth with the YESHA [variant of  ESHUA-Jesus] of [or for] thy people; with YESHUA thy MESSIAH [thine Anointed One: i.e., with Jesus thy Anointed] thou woundest the head of the house of the wicked one [Satan].  Here you have it!  The very NAME given to our Lord in the New Testament - JESUS CHRIST!  So don't let anyone - Jew or Gentile - tell you that the Name JESUS is not found in the Old Testament.  And so when the aged Simeon came to the Temple, led there by the Holy Spirit, and took the baby Yeshua in his arms, he said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation [YESHUA (Jesus)] (Luke 2:29-30). Certainly!  Not only did his eyes see God's Salvation - God's YESHUA (Jesus) - but he felt Him and touched Him.  His believing heart beat with joy and assurance as he felt the loving heart of God throbbing in the heart of the holy infant YESHUA.

And thou shalt call his name Jesus (SALVATION = YESHUA);
for he shall save [salvage] his people from their sins!

Yesha’yahu – Isaiah 53:1-12

How about you? Have you received your Redeemer, the Stone whom the builders rejected? In Him is life, light and joy and in His sacrifice is forgiveness of sin.

God Bless
 

[Revelation Man]

On 6/19/2022 at 10:39 AM, JoeCanada said:

Rev man, 

Jesus tells us to "pick up our cross and follow Him"..... the cross is not an invitation to a party. 

There are many scriptures that tell us that suffering is part of the Christian walk.

Here are just a few.... 

Phl 1:29

Did you not read the post in full brother? The whole post pointed to why we are taken out just before the 70th week, God doesn't want us to be harmed and maimed, (of course) but we had to stay on this earth to save or preach salvation unto the lost, if God sacrificed His only son, He will not pull us out until the job is complete, that goes without saying, but He also will not leave us here one day longer than needed. Noah was needed on earth to bring forth the Messiah from his loins. David was needed likewise, so of course in this evil world we will be persecuted just like Jesus was, but when our job is done we will not remain here one second longer than needed. The Two-witnesses are sent to bring Israel to repentance and in Rev. 14:6 the Angel takes over preaching the Gospel unto the whole world. Not us, we are in heaven, Marrying the Lamb Jesus, we were Persecuted up until our jobs were finished on this earth. 

So, no one is saying we will not be persecuted, just saying that when our job is over, we will be Raptured to Heaven. Then 3.5 years later God's Wrath falls, do you grasp that 1/3 of the whole world will be destroyed by fire? Think, North and South America BURNS UP in total, why would God leave us here? We are out of here and the 70th week will come upon the world without the Church on this earth. A Remnant Church (Rev. 12:17) will be here. They get saved after the Rapture. Amen.

On 6/19/2022 at 10:55 AM, JoeCanada said:

Rev man

The carnage.... the wholesale slaughter of men and women....the blood and guts of mankind and beast.... the smell of rotting corpses.... the stench of death.....  

THIS is the Marriage Feast of the Lamb????????... Ummm, no thank you!

We do NOT have the Marriage Feast with Jesus in the Valley of Armageddon.

It's on HIS Holy mountain.... the place where He builds His Temple that we Feast:

Of course it is, but it is Metaphoric in Nature, we do nothing, Jesus slays them all by the Presence of his coming and by the Sword of his mouth, just like he created the Universe, he speaks victory. A lot of people say Armageddon is a missed translation in some capacity, they say it actually means Jerusalem, not Megiddo. I haven't personally studied this in depth, but against your Isaiah quote backdrop its a thought. But, that has zero to do with whether Revelation 19 is speaking about a bloody Marriage Supper. Of course it is, that is why THE CARCASS is mentioned in Matt. 24:28, Jesus is saying don't look in the desert for me, or in a storeroom, In will not be there, but look to the Eastern Skies, then he makes a peculiar statement some people do not quite understand, but the CARCASS is where the eagle will be at. Now, reading Rev. 19 what is the Church/Bride called there? Fowls of the air. Its pretty simple lingo tbh.

Rev. 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife(Church) hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.........

 

Rev. 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.(The Bride/Church is in FINE LINEN)

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

We do not eat the flesh of the kings, men, mighty men, captains etc. etc. it is metaphoric in nature, we are with Jesus as all of these "so called mighty men", the types who mocked our belief in God, the kind of loons who have belittled everyone who speaks out against abortion or homosexuality, or even the cra cra transexual movement. We will gloat by just standing with Jesus as they and their foolishness are put down, by Jesus, via his SPEAKING VICTORY. We will not be eating flesh, its a metaphoric victory dance so to speak. Its just prose used by God. All one has to do is look at verse 9, it tells us we are going to the Marriage Supper. The Jewish Bride and Groom always had the Marriage Supper 7 days after the Marriage.

I will go to look for that argument about Armageddon really being in Jerusalem, it was interesting, but to me it didn't matter that much so I never delved into it any deeper. Your point made me want to take another look. But its semantics anyway. That Rev. 19 scene is the Marriage Supper. And it happens on earth, after we return from Heaven with Jesus.

God Bless.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Revelation Man

[JoeCanada]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course it is, but it is Metaphoric in Nature, we do nothing,

Yes.... and we can take most scriptures and metaphorize them to mean whatever we want them to mean, except for what is plainly written.

We spiritualize, allegorize, symbolize, fantasize, fictionalize, minimize, mythicize and whatever else kind of "ize"................ except "as writtenize"

Rev 19:17 is to be understood as it is written. 

We are not "birds which fly in midheaven"

We do not eat the flesh of "kings and mighty men and horses and slaves"

This is NOT METAPHORIC IN NATURE. 

Stop with your nonsense.